Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1266.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: miscreanity on October 15, 2013, 06:33:21 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on October 14, 2013, 10:03:28 PM

what ever happened to your Meshnet project?

It's developing rapidly, and will provide Bitcoin services in the near future. One sticking point is wallets - they still need to mature further before mass usage is realistically feasible.

Well done. Keep up the good work on a necessary and worthwhile project.

miscreanity

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Quote from: cypherdoc on October 14, 2013, 10:03:28 PM

what ever happened to your Meshnet project?

It's developing rapidly, and will provide Bitcoin services in the near future. One sticking point is wallets - they still need to mature further before mass usage is realistically feasible.

Spaceman_Spiff

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₪``Campaign Manager´´₪

Quote from: just_me on October 15, 2013, 05:55:41 AM

The internet hasn't been around all that long.
Long distance communication, and radio and television haven't been around that long either.
I believe these are just short term events on the earth that will come to an end someday.
Mankind may in fact, end up living like cave-dwellers some day, and forget all about all these inventions, as though
they never even existed.
And bitcoin? Bitcoin won't matter either.
But for a short time, perhaps while we are alive today.
But Gold has been around for a long time, and I think it will remain popular.

At some point in time, the wheel hadn't been around for long either.

PS: And I bet there were a lot of people back then claiming that it was a fad, because there weren't enough roads on which it could be used (not that you are saying a similar thing now).

just_me

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Jesus Christ Saves Sinners

Gold might continue to be popular

NewLiberty

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Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: miscreanity on October 14, 2013, 09:53:15 PM

Bitcoin will be effectively unbreakable at that point.

That would be quite nice, how and when do you imagine this will occur? Or is this unbreakablility only with regard to network outages and not to the array of other existential threats to the protocol?

cypherdoc

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Quote from: miscreanity on October 14, 2013, 09:53:15 PM

If there are no catastrophic events, the "Internet kill switch" will be a moot issue within three years. There may still be the potential for continental separation, but methods exist for communication even at transoceanic distances without relying on cables or satellites. With geographically diversified mining resources, Bitcoin will be effectively unbreakable at that point.

That is when Bitcoin will start truly eroding gold's position as a monetary asset, after fiat currencies have been proven bettered by crypto.

what ever happened to your Meshnet project?

miscreanity

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If there are no catastrophic events, the "Internet kill switch" will be a moot issue within three years. There may still be the potential for continental separation, but methods exist for communication even at transoceanic distances without relying on cables or satellites. With geographically diversified mining resources, Bitcoin will be effectively unbreakable at that point.

That is when Bitcoin will start truly eroding gold's position as a monetary asset, after fiat currencies have been proven bettered by crypto.

oakpacific

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Quote from: tvbcof on October 14, 2013, 04:10:26 PM

Quote from: oakpacific on October 14, 2013, 03:32:19 AM

Quote from: tvbcof on October 14, 2013, 02:51:51 AM

While I agree with out in principle, people would start starving in a matter of days while a private supply system and transportation chain would take probably years to develop.
...

I feel like that I am reading some Marxism textbooks, where capitalists are supposed to pour their milk stock into river when nobody is buying them, right? Tongue

It may or may not have been clear, but I don't see a command economy being a durable or desirable thing. The communists have spend a century demonstrating why, and have done a smashing job of it. I would be a temporary solution when the options are:

- millions of people dead in the street and cities burnt to rubble.

vs.

- a temporary stop-gap measure occurring simultaneously with every effort made to jump-start a functional market economy.

Again, the key thing to me is that there is a robust and credible mechanism to ensure that said command economy lasts no longer than it is supported by a plurality of sane people.

Probably my single biggest complaints against Libertarian philosophy (and various others including most of the extremist religious groups) is the adherence and faith they have in some absolutist belief. If one is unable or unwilling to entertain the notion of compromise and 'triage', then one lacks the flexibility to deal with real world problems effectively. That is one of the main reasons I have close to zero confidence in anything espoused by my Libertarian brothers when it comes to problem solving.

I do not believe the corporations controlling large tracts of farmland, would refuse to seize control of the land and the agricultural products, there are many sensible reasons to do just the opposite(good reputation as people tend to have long memories when it comes to things like this, arrangement for a charity branch can also be made for tax purposes), not to say that when they need to sell significantly under the cost, there is not much money to be made anyway, leasing(for free) land to homeless farmers can not do much damage to them, and yeah, laws are changeable.

tvbcof

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Quote from: thezerg on October 14, 2013, 07:02:42 PM

Ahh gold... investors keep telling yourselves "but diversify"! Keep imagining Armageddon. You may feel a bit better...

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, nasdaq=3055, Bitcoin=5.4):
Bitcoin is 150.53 (142.44 btcChina in USD). Gold is 1272.00. Nasdaq is 3815.00
Bitcoin: 2687.59% (2537.78%)
Gold: -24.73%
Nasdaq: 24.88%
Gold Diff: 3604% advantage Bitcoin
Nasdaq Diff: 2132% advantage Bitcoin

For my part, I diversified out of gold and silver which I'd gotten into in 2002-ish. That is a big part of the reason I got into Bitcoin in fact. It would take a lot more grief for me to 'feel bad' and nothing would make me draw down on that side of the books except need for fiat liquidity. And then, as I say, only when I've re-balanced to not be quite so heavy in BTC and to take some more profits from that speculation.

The BTC speculation has been very good to me, but not near what I anticipate as possible. If Bitcoin actually does take off someday it won't really matter than much whether I have the same number of BTC I have now or half as many. I expect that I'd be so rich that it would not matter a lot. And, of course, there is always the risk that a different crypto-currency will usurp Bitcoin, or the government will find a formula which for all intents and purposes renders it unusable (by me), or that some unexpected exploit damages it. All reasons to factor into the equation when deciding how to capitalize.

thezerg

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Ahh gold... investors keep telling yourselves "but diversify"! Keep imagining Armageddon. You may feel a bit better...

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, nasdaq=3055, Bitcoin=5.4):
Bitcoin is 150.53 (142.44 btcChina in USD). Gold is 1272.00. Nasdaq is 3815.00
Bitcoin: 2687.59% (2537.78%)
Gold: -24.73%
Nasdaq: 24.88%
Gold Diff: 3604% advantage Bitcoin
Nasdaq Diff: 2132% advantage Bitcoin

tvbcof

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Quote from: oakpacific on October 14, 2013, 03:32:19 AM

Quote from: tvbcof on October 14, 2013, 02:51:51 AM

While I agree with out in principle, people would start starving in a matter of days while a private supply system and transportation chain would take probably years to develop.
...

I feel like that I am reading some Marxism textbooks, where capitalists are supposed to pour their milk stock into river when nobody is buying them, right? Tongue

It may or may not have been clear, but I don't see a command economy being a durable or desirable thing. The communists have spend a century demonstrating why, and have done a smashing job of it. I would be a temporary solution when the options are:

- millions of people dead in the street and cities burnt to rubble.

vs.

- a temporary stop-gap measure occurring simultaneously with every effort made to jump-start a functional market economy.

Again, the key thing to me is that there is a robust and credible mechanism to ensure that said command economy lasts no longer than it is supported by a plurality of sane people.

Probably my single biggest complaints against Libertarian philosophy (and various others including most of the extremist religious groups) is the adherence and faith they have in some absolutist belief. If one is unable or unwilling to entertain the notion of compromise and 'triage', then one lacks the flexibility to deal with real world problems effectively. That is one of the main reasons I have close to zero confidence in anything espoused by my Libertarian brothers when it comes to problem solving.

bitcodo

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Can't upload avatar

We used to use Deutschland Marks and Swiss Franc against our Dinar. Any of you buying Francs or any of the scandinavian Kronen?

World

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Quote from: cypherdoc on October 14, 2013, 04:09:32 AM

Quote from: molecular on October 14, 2013, 01:04:47 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on October 13, 2013, 10:49:35 PM

in the words of Chamath Palihapitiya, "this thing is gonna rip!"

that's almost as good as some of my memes Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nUB1LfUzLI

I love this guy.

Thank you molecular

It was a very good interview.Here is the full video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NK1HC9nvwg

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: manfred on October 14, 2013, 04:32:51 AM

Quote

For my part, I am adamantly against such control measures, but it is not because I don't believe that martial law and a command economy have no legitimate role in extreme circumstances. In my case it is because I see a great danger that such 'solutions' will persist for much longer than they need to.

Exactly, as history shows once an entity is in charge it will not give up power easily. So be prepared for a lifetime of military dictatorship. And no there is no escape strong hands will lead everywhere.

... yeah it's likely a quick descent into regionalism, fiefdoms and some modern form of warlords would develop quite quickly. If Washington loses control over the money then it's got pretty much noting left to offer the states except violent threats. Some analyses show US seceding into 5 or 6 large regional blocks with common aligned politics/interests, NW, SW, South, Midwest, NE and SE of maybe 5-10 states each.

manfred

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Energy is Wealth

Quote

For my part, I am adamantly against such control measures, but it is not because I don't believe that martial law and a command economy have no legitimate role in extreme circumstances. In my case it is because I see a great danger that such 'solutions' will persist for much longer than they need to.

Exactly, as history shows once an entity is in charge it will not give up power easily. So be prepared for a lifetime of military dictatorship. And no there is no escape strong hands will lead everywhere.

tvbcof

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Quote from: Erdogan on October 14, 2013, 03:41:00 AM

Quote from: tvbcof on October 14, 2013, 02:51:51 AM

[...]
I believe that the more senior of our leadership understands what would need to be done, and we see reflections of this in things like the NSA spying apparatus and other such clues.

For my part, I am adamantly against such control measures, but it is not because I don't believe that martial law and a command economy have no legitimate role in extreme circumstances. In my case it is because I see a great danger that such 'solutions' will persist for much longer than they need to.

The world is looking for a strong leader in the crisis... how predictable. Another prediction: We will get our strong leader.

That is a fair bet. Usually it works out that way. My biggest concern is that we will be able to get rid of him/her before he/she does as much damage as has been the case previously.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: molecular on October 14, 2013, 01:04:47 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on October 13, 2013, 10:49:35 PM

in the words of Chamath Palihapitiya, "this thing is gonna rip!"

that's almost as good as some of my memes Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nUB1LfUzLI

I love this guy.

Thank you molecular

justusranvier

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The sooner this generation of old control freak lunatics with delusions of grandeur passes on the better.

The entirety of the 20th century can be summarized thusly:

"That thing we just did to solve a problem, which immediately made the problem worse? Let's do more of it! Don't let the slightest bit of evidence or rationality distract you!"

Erdogan

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Quote from: tvbcof on October 14, 2013, 02:51:51 AM

[...]
I believe that the more senior of our leadership understands what would need to be done, and we see reflections of this in things like the NSA spying apparatus and other such clues.

For my part, I am adamantly against such control measures, but it is not because I don't believe that martial law and a command economy have no legitimate role in extreme circumstances. In my case it is because I see a great danger that such 'solutions' will persist for much longer than they need to.

The world is looking for a strong leader in the crisis... how predictable. Another prediction: We will get our strong leader.

oakpacific

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Quote from: tvbcof on October 14, 2013, 02:51:51 AM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on October 14, 2013, 02:30:30 AM

Quote

The only way to keep large numbers of urban people alive (in the absence of letters of credit for suppliers and what-not) would be a command economy managed by the state.

In fact this is completely incorrect. The best way to keep large numbers of urban people alive is a free market economy in food ... I'm not sure how many times people have to witness a N. Korea or similar socialist famine to be relieved of the misconception that command economies are somehow more effective at feeding large numbers of people.

The break down of the monetary system is a separate effect but don't try and saddle the farmers who are actually trying to feed people, with the same failed fucked-up economic wonk theories that fucked-up the financial system.

Edit: ... and if you ever happen to end up in situation where you notice authorities are trying to fix food prices or command control over food distribution it is well time past to get out ...

While I agree with out in principle, people would start starving in a matter of days while a private supply system and transportation chain would take probably years to develop.

We don't have 'farmers' in the US. We have multiple square mile farms owned by huge corporations and run by two guys and some GPS enabled tractor-like-things. And these things consume a lot of diesel I might note. With a failed monetary system stripping 99.5% of people any money they might have it is unlikely that said corporations would desire to feed people out of the goodness of their hearts. And would be illegal besides under current corporate law.

I believe that the more senior of our leadership understands what would need to be done, and we see reflections of this in things like the NSA spying apparatus and other such clues.

For my part, I am adamantly against such control measures, but it is not because I don't believe that martial law and a command economy have no legitimate role in extreme circumstances. In my case it is because I see a great danger that such 'solutions' will persist for much longer than they need to.

I feel like that I am reading some Marxism textbooks, where capitalists are supposed to pour their milk stock into river when nobody is buying them, right? Tongue

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