Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1346.

miscreanity

legendary

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1005

Quote from: molecular on February 17, 2013, 05:57:07 AM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on February 16, 2013, 05:42:56 PM

At some point the physical market will disconnect from the paper/digital gold markets.

There will be an independent quote of gold coin market averages that differs from the "official" gold spot price (which may have 7 years delivery delays and other hooks attached, etc).

Well said and I agree. Bullion dealers will simply adjust their premiums. This happens because there will be shortages and what do you do when your supply is going too fast? Right, you adjust your price.

Look at this from a different angle: assume legislative controls have been set in place, locking prices of all goods, and declaring no business may charge greater than a 5% premium on any good.

If the premium had previously been 10% on gold, then the price of gold will be the same as it was before (price controls), and the 5% premium would ensure that any dealers unable to stay in business at that level would run out of stock or close. In addition, those businesses remaining would be unable to acquire supply if any competition outside of the country were to arise, as having a frozen premium rate means room for negotiating on cost is non-existent.

Put simply: we have a choice of rising prices or increasing shortages. Price stability makes government look good; shortages make businesses look bad. Politicians can blame businessmen and assume greater control over industry.

Vladimir

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1001

-

Quote from: molecular on February 17, 2013, 05:57:07 AM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on February 16, 2013, 05:42:56 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on February 16, 2013, 04:24:50 PM

Quote from: lebing on February 16, 2013, 01:30:54 PM

Quote from: xxjs on February 16, 2013, 11:07:10 AM

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

Electronic forms of gold are going down (because there are widespread rumors that there is not as much gold as they say they have in reserves) and hence the world price is going down.

If one is interested in obtaining physical, it is a delightful thing to have the price dragged down by paper market artifacts. This has happened again and again over the last decade, and it has served me very well.

At some point the physical market will disconnect from the paper/digital gold markets.

There will be an independent quote of gold coin market averages that differs from the "official" gold spot price (which may have 7 years delivery delays and other hooks attached, etc).

Well said and I agree. Bullion dealers will simply adjust their premiums. This happens because there will be shortages and what do you do when your supply is going too fast? Right, you adjust your price.

Absolutely!. I cannot agree more with what you guys said. This is indeed a long held conviction of "proper" gold bugs. Physical gold only is to be held. The price of paper gold will eventually reflect the price of assets that is backing it. How much tungsten worth these days? I've heard prices on tungsten are rising too. Wink

It seems that disconnect in prices between paper and real gold is bound to happen sooner or later. One cannot lie to all the people on the planet indefinitely. Sooner or later the market as a price discovery mechanism will discover the true price of paper gold.

Gold is very much similar to Bitcoin in this regard. You do not hold it in your hands you do not own it.

molecular

donator

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1019

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on February 16, 2013, 05:42:56 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on February 16, 2013, 04:24:50 PM

Quote from: lebing on February 16, 2013, 01:30:54 PM

Quote from: xxjs on February 16, 2013, 11:07:10 AM

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

Electronic forms of gold are going down (because there are widespread rumors that there is not as much gold as they say they have in reserves) and hence the world price is going down.

If one is interested in obtaining physical, it is a delightful thing to have the price dragged down by paper market artifacts. This has happened again and again over the last decade, and it has served me very well.

At some point the physical market will disconnect from the paper/digital gold markets.

There will be an independent quote of gold coin market averages that differs from the "official" gold spot price (which may have 7 years delivery delays and other hooks attached, etc).

Well said and I agree. Bullion dealers will simply adjust their premiums. This happens because there will be shortages and what do you do when your supply is going too fast? Right, you adjust your price.

Melbustus

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1004

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on February 16, 2013, 05:00:55 PM

chart of the day:

(I did not sold all my gold for BTC 1 year ago and I was wrong. But even now I sleep much better holding gold)

other chart of the day, from: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article39037.html :

I'd like to see these on greater timescales. Those charts are pretty interesting and clearly show that the relationship has tightly held for the past 15yrs or so. But what about the 1970s or 80s? I don't recall (cuz I was in grade-school), but I doubt the debt-ceiling was DEcreased in the 80s when the gold price dropped.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: xxjs on February 16, 2013, 07:38:49 PM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on February 16, 2013, 05:42:56 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on February 16, 2013, 04:24:50 PM

Quote from: lebing on February 16, 2013, 01:30:54 PM

Quote from: xxjs on February 16, 2013, 11:07:10 AM

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

Electronic forms of gold are going down (because there are widespread rumors that there is not as much gold as they say they have in reserves) and hence the world price is going down.

If one is interested in obtaining physical, it is a delightful thing to have the price dragged down by paper market artifacts. This has happened again and again over the last decade, and it has served me very well.

At some point the physical market will disconnect from the paper/digital gold markets.

There will be an independent quote of gold coin market averages that differs from the "official" gold spot price (which may have 7 years delivery delays and other hooks attached, etc).

Interesting view.

i think they are all going to be wrong on this.

xxjs

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on February 16, 2013, 05:42:56 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on February 16, 2013, 04:24:50 PM

Quote from: lebing on February 16, 2013, 01:30:54 PM

Quote from: xxjs on February 16, 2013, 11:07:10 AM

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

Electronic forms of gold are going down (because there are widespread rumors that there is not as much gold as they say they have in reserves) and hence the world price is going down.

If one is interested in obtaining physical, it is a delightful thing to have the price dragged down by paper market artifacts. This has happened again and again over the last decade, and it has served me very well.

At some point the physical market will disconnect from the paper/digital gold markets.

There will be an independent quote of gold coin market averages that differs from the "official" gold spot price (which may have 7 years delivery delays and other hooks attached, etc).

Interesting view.

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: tvbcof on February 16, 2013, 04:24:50 PM

Quote from: lebing on February 16, 2013, 01:30:54 PM

Quote from: xxjs on February 16, 2013, 11:07:10 AM

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

Electronic forms of gold are going down (because there are widespread rumors that there is not as much gold as they say they have in reserves) and hence the world price is going down.

If one is interested in obtaining physical, it is a delightful thing to have the price dragged down by paper market artifacts. This has happened again and again over the last decade, and it has served me very well.

At some point the physical market will disconnect from the paper/digital gold markets.

There will be an independent quote of gold coin market averages that differs from the "official" gold spot price (which may have 7 years delivery delays and other hooks attached, etc).

conspirosphere.tk

legendary

Activity: 2352

Merit: 1064

Bitcoin is antisemitic

chart of the day:

(I did not sold all my gold for BTC 1 year ago and I was wrong. But even now I sleep much better holding gold)

other chart of the day, from: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article39037.html :

tvbcof

legendary

Activity: 4760

Merit: 1283

Quote from: lebing on February 16, 2013, 01:30:54 PM

Quote from: xxjs on February 16, 2013, 11:07:10 AM

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

Electronic forms of gold are going down (because there are widespread rumors that there is not as much gold as they say they have in reserves) and hence the world price is going down.

If one is interested in obtaining physical, it is a delightful thing to have the price dragged down by paper market artifacts. This has happened again and again over the last decade, and it has served me very well.

lebing

legendary

Activity: 1288

Merit: 1000

Enabling the maximal migration

Quote from: xxjs on February 16, 2013, 11:07:10 AM

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

Electronic forms of gold are going down (because there are widespread rumors that there is not as much gold as they say they have in reserves) and hence the world price is going down.

xxjs

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

thefiniteidea

hero member

Activity: 509

Merit: 564

"In Us We Trust"

Asteroid Mining

"Gold has intrinsic properties that make it valuable. However, it does not have intrinsic value."

Gold is valuable because it is rare, making it more difficult to mine. Thus, it has a very long record of demand, further supporting its value.

However, will gold be just as valuable when we can mine substantial amounts of it? With asteroid mining becoming more of a reality in the next 50 years, gold may very well lose its status as one of the more popular stores of wealth.

I wonder what will take it's place? hmm... Cheesy

tvbcof

legendary

Activity: 4760

Merit: 1283

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 15, 2013, 02:41:14 PM

Quote from: miscreanity on February 15, 2013, 02:14:34 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 15, 2013, 01:51:02 PM

even if you're right about sentiment it doesn't mean it's going to get any better. in fact, it's likely to get much worse.

About the only way it could get worse is if central banks, Chinese, Indians, and Russians were to dump all the physical gold they've accumulated. The exhaustion spike is due, and that's just the paper game unfolding - the tail wagging the dog for just a little bit longer.

Where is the supply of real metal coming from?

look. we're at $1600/oz. it could get alot worse.

and just how much delight would Ben and the Wall St banks get from a forced selloff in gold?

I think we all agree that BTC has a vastly higher upside potential than gold.

One of the places were gold has an edge is that Bitcoin is a concept and a block chain. The concept is now out there, and there are plenty of places where different implementations could end up having some popular advantages.

There is no difference between the Bitcoin blockchain and others except for a first-move advantage.

Gold on the other hand is a unique atomic structure and the only way of replicating it currently costs vastly more than it's value. True, it has a first-move mindshare advantage as well, but it's been proven over an amazingly long time. Unlike the Bitcoin blockchain.

All this is to say that Bitcoin has certain risks even if it does not fail do to internet transport molestation or architectural failures.

As always, I balance my portfolio based on these risk/rewards as I see them and continue to have felt no inclination to change that balance for the last year and a half. That's just me though. If I had only just heard of Bitcoin and had no BTC, it is almost certain that I would liquidate some of my PM's to take on a BTC position.

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: miscreanity on February 15, 2013, 06:07:52 PM

Quote from: 2weiX on February 15, 2013, 04:58:34 PM

over the last two years I have grown to loathe gold and silver in every non-shiny, non-tangible shape and form.

That's one of the objectives pursued through authority "open" market operations, since almost nobody in the West gets the difference between non-shiny and tangible.

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 15, 2013, 05:24:34 PM

over the years, the tsunami should build as the shift begins.

Amen to that.

Maybe the masses have more trust in electronic means of exchange than I assumed... It doesn't matter to most how it works, so long as it works for someone they know.

miscreanity

legendary

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1005

Quote from: 2weiX on February 15, 2013, 04:58:34 PM

over the last two years I have grown to loathe gold and silver in every non-shiny, non-tangible shape and form.

That's one of the objectives pursued through authority "open" market operations, since almost nobody in the West gets the difference between non-shiny and tangible.

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 15, 2013, 05:24:34 PM

over the years, the tsunami should build as the shift begins.

Amen to that.

Melbustus

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1004

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 15, 2013, 05:24:34 PM

...the awareness of an alternative is all that's necessary to make ppl pause and not buy gold. but over the years, the tsunami should build as the shift begins.

So your answer to: Does much of gold's market cap eventually go to Bitcoin seems to be a definitive "Yes". :-)

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on February 15, 2013, 05:14:47 PM

Quote from: 2weiX on February 15, 2013, 04:58:34 PM

Quote from: Melbustus on February 15, 2013, 04:24:22 PM

(I personally have no idea how to think about gold anymore)...

hahahaha...
my boss asked me "why'd gold dip today?" and the most honest thing I could say ways "I dunno." while thinking "who gives a sh.t?"
you need to know, I'm the gold ETF trader at my firm.

over the last two years I have grown to loathe gold and silver in every non-shiny, non-tangible shape and form.

Wow ... you are the ETF trader for your firm and this is how you are thinking? That's revealing. If you don't mind me asking are you trading in a sizeable fashion ... small, medium, large, or etc?

furthermore, why'd you say "i dunno"? you should've said, "Bitcoin". Cheesy

as i've said before, there doesn't have to be a one for one movement of USD's out of gold and into Bitcoin to believe this is so. the awareness of an alternative is all that's necessary to make ppl pause and not buy gold. but over the years, the tsunami should build as the shift begins.

robocoin

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Isn't it all about George Soros today? If I'd write on "goldtalk.org", Mr.M had a last name^^

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: 2weiX on February 15, 2013, 04:58:34 PM

Quote from: Melbustus on February 15, 2013, 04:24:22 PM

(I personally have no idea how to think about gold anymore)...

hahahaha...
my boss asked me "why'd gold dip today?" and the most honest thing I could say ways "I dunno." while thinking "who gives a sh.t?"
you need to know, I'm the gold ETF trader at my firm.

over the last two years I have grown to loathe gold and silver in every non-shiny, non-tangible shape and form.

Wow ... you are the ETF trader for your firm and this is how you are thinking? That's revealing. If you don't mind me asking are you trading in a sizeable fashion ... small, medium, large, or etc?

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

i know how to think about it; down.

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1346. (Read 2032266 times)