Author

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 236. (Read 2032248 times)

legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
June 14, 2015, 06:34:20 PM
The one good thing to have come out of Blockstream is the confidential values technique for blinding output amounts.

What if that technique outlives sidechains and Blockstream?

Perhaps it is time you declared what Monetas's position is on blocksize? And if there is anything in your contracts that allow opt-out "for the betterment of bitcoin" if you become conflicted? You know the same clauses that key blockstream employees have that cypherdoc has glossed over many times in his persistent smearing, defamation and character assassination that you seem to be supporting curiously ...

cypherdoc: how's the hashfast debacle progressing? Been sued for your involvement in that scam yet?
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Bitcoin and co.
June 14, 2015, 05:32:05 PM
not starting off the week well.  they got 15 hrs to rescue this:



I don't want this ending up stable in 220-ish again. Hope they'll be able to pull it up again. There's a thread I just saw around about the upcoming rise. What do you guys think about that?
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
June 14, 2015, 05:18:45 PM
not starting off the week well.  they got 15 hrs to rescue this:

legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276
June 14, 2015, 04:58:12 PM
I think Gavin should de-hitch his wagon from Mike Hearn after hearing how Mike proposed centralized checkpointing. The blacklisting thing was his one free pass at a really horrible idea. Now it just looks like he doesn't get what Bitcoin is really about.

I can see why Gavin would utilize XT as an end-run around the political gridlock in core, and I also see that Mike Hearn has a unique perspective and background that is useful, but he should not be a core committer in my opinion. Gavin is the only person qualified to (provisionally) lead the project as far as I can see now, but I think "palling around with Mike Hearn" will be viewed with suspicion, especially if it's unnecessary. Why not just just add in the patch to Core and fork off if necessary?

I'd agree if you're referring to that interview he did, he didn't do the goal of decentralized control any good.

If you've been paying attention there is nothing new in Mike's recent activities.  Granted, they have become a little more audacious of late.  Probably an artifact of getting pretty much complete control of Gavin and an element of desperation given the fairly amazing progress made by the Blockstream folk.  His half-decade long hopes for the system (a monitoring tool controllable by his beloved leaders in mainstreamland) are fluttering away.

legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
June 14, 2015, 04:51:01 PM
I think Gavin should de-hitch his wagon from Mike Hearn after hearing how Mike proposed centralized checkpointing. The blacklisting thing was his one free pass at a really horrible idea. Now it just looks like he doesn't get what Bitcoin is really about.

I can see why Gavin would utilize XT as an end-run around the political gridlock in core, and I also see that Mike Hearn has a unique perspective and background that is useful, but he should not be a core committer in my opinion. Gavin is the only person qualified to (provisionally) lead the project as far as I can see now, but I think "palling around with Mike Hearn" will be viewed with suspicion, especially if it's unnecessary. Why not just just add in the patch to Core and fork off if necessary?

I'd agree if you're referring to that interview he did, he didn't do the goal of decentralized control any good.

I'm still open to XT, just not sure he's a good "Linus Torvalds"
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
June 14, 2015, 04:43:23 PM
I think Gavin should de-hitch his wagon from Mike Hearn after hearing how Mike proposed centralized checkpointing. The blacklisting thing was his one free pass at a really horrible idea. Now it just looks like he doesn't get what Bitcoin is really about.

I can see why Gavin would utilize XT as an end-run around the political gridlock in core, and I also see that Mike Hearn has a unique perspective and background that is useful, but he should not be a core committer in my opinion. Gavin is the only person qualified to (provisionally) lead the project as far as I can see now, but I think "palling around with Mike Hearn" will be viewed with suspicion, especially if it's unnecessary. Why not just just add in the patch to Core and fork off if necessary?

i too think that Gavin has to explicitly state that he will be the lead core dev for XT.  i don't have as much of a problem as you seem to have with Hearn being a core dev for XT as long as Gavin has the last word.  the other good thing is that Gavin can bring in a whole new core dev crew with more academic expertise with more of a like mind towards sound money, which is a big part with how i see these differences btwn Gavin and Greg. 

the checkpoint thing Hearns was talking about was only if there were 2 persistent chains with XT being a minority.  i don't think that will happen.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
June 14, 2015, 04:41:49 PM
I think Gavin should de-hitch his wagon from Mike Hearn after hearing how Mike proposed centralized checkpointing. The blacklisting thing was his one free pass at a really horrible idea. Now it just looks like he doesn't get what Bitcoin is really about.

I can see why Gavin would utilize XT as an end-run around the political gridlock in core, and I also see that Mike Hearn has a unique perspective and background that is useful, but he should not be a core committer in my opinion. Gavin is the only person qualified to (provisionally) lead the project as far as I can see now, but I think "palling around with Mike Hearn" will be viewed with suspicion, especially if it's unnecessary. Why not just just add in the patch to Core and fork off if necessary?
https://github.com/btcsuite/btcd
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
June 14, 2015, 04:36:48 PM
I think Gavin should de-hitch his wagon from Mike Hearn after hearing how Mike proposed centralized checkpointing. The blacklisting thing was his one free pass at a really horrible idea. Now it just looks like he doesn't get what Bitcoin is really about.

I can see why Gavin would utilize XT as an end-run around the political gridlock in core, and I also see that Mike Hearn has a unique perspective and background that is useful, but he should not be a core committer in my opinion. Gavin is the only person qualified to (provisionally) lead the project as far as I can see now, but I think "palling around with Mike Hearn" will be viewed with suspicion, especially if it's unnecessary. Why not just just add in the patch to Core and fork off if necessary?
member
Activity: 63
Merit: 11
June 14, 2015, 04:09:57 PM
The one good thing to have come out of Blockstream is the confidential values technique for blinding output amounts.

They hide only the mantissa part of the number and take 2.5KB to achieve that.

My confidential values technique hides the whole number in 0.4KB (subject to ongoing peer review, positive so far).

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11597427

Can confidential values be implemented without a sidechain/directly on the mainchain?

Yes.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
June 14, 2015, 03:55:52 PM
The one good thing to have come out of Blockstream is the confidential values technique for blinding output amounts.

What if that technique outlives sidechains and Blockstream?

Very good chance at that happening.
legendary
Activity: 861
Merit: 1010
June 14, 2015, 03:25:04 PM
The one good thing to have come out of Blockstream is the confidential values technique for blinding output amounts.

What if that technique outlives sidechains and Blockstream?
Can confidential values be implemented without a sidechain/directly on the mainchain?
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
June 14, 2015, 03:02:54 PM
The one good thing to have come out of Blockstream is the confidential values technique for blinding output amounts.

What if that technique outlives sidechains and Blockstream?
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
June 14, 2015, 02:57:36 PM
It's possible that the covert power grab of the manufactured "governance crisis" by gavin and the MIT g-men may have unintended consequences of their own. (I never took gavin for a blockhead or a hot-head, as he has come across in this debate, but now it is clear there are ulterior motives that fit the observed behaviour much better. Now he just seems like a regular, Machiavellian, conniving politician, it's like he has been media-coached by Hearn.

The only concrete ulterior motives that I'm seeing is that Blockstream's profitability entirely depends on scoring consulting clients to support implementing the technologies that they're working on, whose necessity to implement quickly depend on the blocksize not increasing. But if the blocksize simply must be increased, Adam Back's ultra-complicated Rube Goldberg-esque extension block proposal is there to ensure that practically every enterprise in the space has massive incentive to employ Blockstream to have a smooth implementation.

LOL, that's the only thing I see getting crystal clearer today.

Adam is co-founder and President of Blockstream with $21M riding on his back expecting at minimum 10x returns. That's a lot of pressure.
hero member
Activity: 667
Merit: 500
June 14, 2015, 02:32:21 PM
It's possible that the covert power grab of the manufactured "governance crisis" by gavin and the MIT g-men may have unintended consequences of their own. (I never took gavin for a blockhead or a hot-head, as he has come across in this debate, but now it is clear there are ulterior motives that fit the observed behaviour much better. Now he just seems like a regular, Machiavellian, conniving politician, it's like he has been media-coached by Hearn.

The only concrete ulterior motives that I'm seeing is that Blockstream's profitability entirely depends on scoring consulting clients to support implementing the technologies that they're working on, whose necessity to implement quickly depend on the blocksize not increasing. But if the blocksize simply must be increased, Adam Back's ultra-complicated Rube Goldberg-esque extension block proposal is there to ensure that practically every enterprise in the space has massive incentive to employ Blockstream to have a smooth implementation.
legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276
June 14, 2015, 01:42:00 PM

Suddenly today I am really sensing a sea-change as people wake up to what the Hearn and the bloat push is all about.

I'm just curious about whether the poll in this thread is configured to allow people to change their vote or not (cypherdoc?)

sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 14, 2015, 06:27:19 AM
If the actual input to a transaction (in Monero terminology this is the output of the prior transaction) is not also an input to another transaction's ring signature (and when all the other inputs to the ring are spent) or if it is also the input to a subsequent ring in which all the other inputs were outputs created after the said transaction was created, then the anonymity of the said transaction is entirely unmasked.

This is really what MRL-0004 deals with (the section on Temporal Association attacks).

A lot of this changes with the recommendations MRL4 made, which will come in a hard fork later this year (once we've established a forking strategy, per this forum post).

I don't check this thread, so if you reply and don't hear back from me in a couple of days just send me a PM nudging me:)

The MRL4 imperfect heuristic mitigations notwithstanding, the only absolute solution is to require that sets of outputs be mixed with and only with each other (and the number of inputs per ring must be constant). This also enables pruning the Cryptonote block chain. There I have just given away one of my prior design "secrets" (that I no longer need to keep secret because I stumbled onto a consensus network design which no longer needs pruning and is transaction technology agnostic). Perhaps others already suggested this?

P.S. for those who have already spent their coins to a third party, your hard fork will come too late. Hope you can make necessary improvements sooner.

The following should have been implied, but let me make it more explicit, which may also resolve the issue with exchanges and getting this fix into Monero asap (although I have not studied that issue, only heard about it second hand).

The only sane way my above suggestion can be implemented is that outputs eligible for fixed size mixins must be marked as such by the transaction that created them, otherwise if the fixed size (and outputs) mixins were global then there is no way to merge the leftover change from several transactions into one transaction. I believe BoolBerry had a conceptually similar mechanism to mark outputs with some specific attribute for mixing. So the marked outputs must be mixed with and only with the "next N outputs of same denomination on the block chain" when they are spent.

Thus when you want to mix your outputs with assurance against unmasking due to Combinatorial Cascade and Temporal Association, then you mark the output for fixed size mixing.

In my opinion, this is an emergency fix because afaics the anonymity is broken as it is now, but I can't say that I've done any deep analysis on how likely the unmasking is on existing patterns in the Monero block chain.

Hope this helps, displays my gratitude to those who rewarded me for my effort during the BCX incident, and most importantly hope Monero can implement it asap because I would like to make my best attempt to create a use case gift to XMR HODLers soon and this fix may be required. Perhaps someone else had already suggested this idea, I don't know.

The pruning comes from the fact that if the mixes are fixed size then after N transactions of the same ring have been seen, those outputs (that are inputs to those N rings) can be pruned from the UXTO.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1002
Strange, yet attractive.
June 14, 2015, 04:26:12 AM
It's possible that the covert power grab of the manufactured "governance crisis" by gavin and the MIT g-men may have unintended consequences of their own. (I never took gavin for a blockhead or a hot-head, as he has come across in this debate, but now it is clear there are ulterior motives that fit the observed behaviour much better. Now he just seems like a regular, Machiavellian, conniving politician, it's like he has been media-coached by Hearn.)

Red-team blue-team politics is cat-nip for attracting and fostering interest. We even have referee Garzik to keep the fight clean.

Go at it guys but careful you don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Maybe that's what they were after involving Gavin in this game after all. Or maybe we're chasing ghosts here, for that matter. Only time will tell.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
June 13, 2015, 08:10:40 PM
It's possible that the covert power grab of the manufactured "governance crisis" by gavin and the MIT g-men may have unintended consequences of their own. (I never took gavin for a blockhead or a hot-head, as he has come across in this debate, but now it is clear there are ulterior motives that fit the observed behaviour much better. Now he just seems like a regular, Machiavellian, conniving politician, it's like he has been media-coached by Hearn.)

Red-team blue-team politics is cat-nip for attracting and fostering interest. We even have referee Garzik to keep the fight clean.

Go at it guys but careful you don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
June 13, 2015, 07:38:06 PM
But to reach 100k tps will still be tough regardless of implementation.

My design has no theoretical limit on TPS. It will be published this year and I hope within a couple of months.
There always is bottleneck as long as there is physics

My consensus network PoW design places no theoretical limit on the TPS. Physics will still place a limit else where (i.e. aggregate bandwidth of the entire internet), but that limit won't be at the layer of the consensus network. In short, I don't see any practical limit yet, but I caution there has been no peer review. And I've been pretty much overloaded while making this discovery, so it is possible I've overlooked a flaw. I don't think so. The one flaw I'm contemplating is how to set the minimum transaction fees to avoid a Sybil attack while retaining decentralization of that adjustment. But Bitcoin has the analogous dilemma in that if block size is unlimited then attacks are possible (unless also set a minimum transaction fee) and these constants are not set with a decentralized process. So at least my design seems to have the potential of a great leap forward, even if the Holy Grail of decentralization will never quite be entirely devoid of politics.
Jump to: