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Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 403. (Read 2032286 times)

legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
April 26, 2015, 07:53:21 PM
My understanding is you download the whole blockchain first for verificatio,  then delete all but around the last 200 or so blocks. It works off the UTXO set.

In the case of the compute stick, you could use a separate SSD to initialize the blockchain, then disconnect it. Sticking these things in every nook and cranny could be a real problem for those against Bitcoin.

So for basically to allow for p2p tx and block relaying around the globe thru smaller mediums. The main use case I woulda thought is to reduce time for new nodes to sync up.. Since we know the price of hd is falling faster then the need for that space.

The pruning stuff does not reduce sync time at all, though the recent headers-first and syncing improvements do.

In order to prune syncing you have to relax the idea of independent verification and rely on someone else telling you that the part of the chain you are seeing is valid (as with SPV nodes). That's a major change to the Bitcoin trust model.






With spv you only get headers and maybe coinbase tx correct? So you wont be able to import your pvt key and get your txs in spv mode..
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
April 26, 2015, 07:52:13 PM
By "prune syncing" I meant reduce the amount of bandwidth needed for syncing so that it doesn't grow arbitrarily with the length of the chain. That doesn't exist currently.
I think that a yet-to-be-invented zero knowledge proof could probably achieve this eventually.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
April 26, 2015, 07:39:43 PM
My understanding is you download the whole blockchain first for verificatio,  then delete all but around the last 200 or so blocks. It works off the UTXO set.

In the case of the compute stick, you could use a separate SSD to initialize the blockchain, then disconnect it. Sticking these things in every nook and cranny could be a real problem for those against Bitcoin.

So for basically to allow for p2p tx and block relaying around the globe thru smaller mediums. The main use case I woulda thought is to reduce time for new nodes to sync up.. Since we know the price of hd is falling faster then the need for that space.

The pruning stuff does not reduce sync time at all, though the recent headers-first and syncing improvements do.

In order to prune syncing you have to relax the idea of independent verification and rely on someone else telling you that the part of the chain you are seeing is valid (as with SPV nodes). That's a major change to the Bitcoin trust model.






No,  you do download the entire block chain at first to independently verify. Only them do you delete all but the last 200 or so blocks.

That's exactly what I said cyperdoc.


Then I didn't understand this part:

"In order to prune syncing you have to relax the idea of independent verification and rely on someone else telling you that the part of the chain you are seeing is valid (as with SPV nodes). That's a major change to the Bitcoin trust model."

By "prune syncing" I meant reduce the amount of bandwidth needed for syncing so that it doesn't grow arbitrarily with the length of the chain. That doesn't exist currently.

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
April 26, 2015, 06:34:11 PM
My understanding is you download the whole blockchain first for verificatio,  then delete all but around the last 200 or so blocks. It works off the UTXO set.

In the case of the compute stick, you could use a separate SSD to initialize the blockchain, then disconnect it. Sticking these things in every nook and cranny could be a real problem for those against Bitcoin.

So for basically to allow for p2p tx and block relaying around the globe thru smaller mediums. The main use case I woulda thought is to reduce time for new nodes to sync up.. Since we know the price of hd is falling faster then the need for that space.

The pruning stuff does not reduce sync time at all, though the recent headers-first and syncing improvements do.

In order to prune syncing you have to relax the idea of independent verification and rely on someone else telling you that the part of the chain you are seeing is valid (as with SPV nodes). That's a major change to the Bitcoin trust model.






No,  you do download the entire block chain at first to independently verify. Only them do you delete all but the last 200 or so blocks.

That's exactly what I said cyperdoc.


Then I didn't understand this part:

"In order to prune syncing you have to relax the idea of independent verification and rely on someone else telling you that the part of the chain you are seeing is valid (as with SPV nodes). That's a major change to the Bitcoin trust model."
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
April 26, 2015, 06:06:03 PM
My understanding is you download the whole blockchain first for verificatio,  then delete all but around the last 200 or so blocks. It works off the UTXO set.

In the case of the compute stick, you could use a separate SSD to initialize the blockchain, then disconnect it. Sticking these things in every nook and cranny could be a real problem for those against Bitcoin.

So for basically to allow for p2p tx and block relaying around the globe thru smaller mediums. The main use case I woulda thought is to reduce time for new nodes to sync up.. Since we know the price of hd is falling faster then the need for that space.

The pruning stuff does not reduce sync time at all, though the recent headers-first and syncing improvements do.

In order to prune syncing you have to relax the idea of independent verification and rely on someone else telling you that the part of the chain you are seeing is valid (as with SPV nodes). That's a major change to the Bitcoin trust model.






No,  you do download the entire block chain at first to independently verify. Only them do you delete all but the last 200 or so blocks.

That's exactly what I said cyperdoc.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
April 26, 2015, 05:50:09 PM
My understanding is you download the whole blockchain first for verificatio,  then delete all but around the last 200 or so blocks. It works off the UTXO set.

In the case of the compute stick, you could use a separate SSD to initialize the blockchain, then disconnect it. Sticking these things in every nook and cranny could be a real problem for those against Bitcoin.

So for basically to allow for p2p tx and block relaying around the globe thru smaller mediums. The main use case I woulda thought is to reduce time for new nodes to sync up.. Since we know the price of hd is falling faster then the need for that space.

The pruning stuff does not reduce sync time at all, though the recent headers-first and syncing improvements do.

In order to prune syncing you have to relax the idea of independent verification and rely on someone else telling you that the part of the chain you are seeing is valid (as with SPV nodes). That's a major change to the Bitcoin trust model.






No,  you do download the entire block chain at first to independently verify. Only them do you delete all but the last 200 or so blocks.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
April 26, 2015, 05:41:47 PM
My understanding is you download the whole blockchain first for verificatio,  then delete all but around the last 200 or so blocks. It works off the UTXO set.

In the case of the compute stick, you could use a separate SSD to initialize the blockchain, then disconnect it. Sticking these things in every nook and cranny could be a real problem for those against Bitcoin.

So for basically to allow for p2p tx and block relaying around the globe thru smaller mediums. The main use case I woulda thought is to reduce time for new nodes to sync up.. Since we know the price of hd is falling faster then the need for that space.

The pruning stuff does not reduce sync time at all, though the recent headers-first and syncing improvements do.

In order to prune syncing you have to relax the idea of independent verification and rely on someone else telling you that the part of the chain you are seeing is valid (as with SPV nodes). That's a major change to the Bitcoin trust model.




legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
April 26, 2015, 05:39:10 PM
My understanding is you download the whole blockchain first for verificatio,  then delete all but around the last 200 or so blocks. It works off the UTXO set.

In the case of the compute stick, you could use a separate SSD to initialize the blockchain, then disconnect it. Sticking these things in every nook and cranny could be a real problem for those against Bitcoin.

So for basically to allow for p2p tx and block relaying around the globe thru smaller mediums. The main use case I woulda thought is to reduce time for new nodes to sync up.. Since we know the price of hd is falling faster then the need for that space.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
April 26, 2015, 05:33:01 PM
My understanding is you download the whole blockchain first for verificatio,  then delete all but around the last 200 or so blocks. It works off the UTXO set.

In the case of the compute stick, you could use a separate SSD to initialize the blockchain, then disconnect it. Sticking these things in every nook and cranny could be a real problem for those against Bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
April 26, 2015, 05:32:48 PM
These things will be plugged in everywhere as full nodes:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/innovatek-stick-pc/



I don't think 64 GB of storage is gonna cut it.

Long term, pruning.

Full nodes needs all blockchain on disk. No place for "pruning".
Did you see the latest commit on pruning? Allows you to specify max disk usage and it prunes old blocks.. validates by reindexing which downloads all chain then prunes. You check it out? I wonder what the point is if youhave todownload the full chain anyway why prune? The main bottleneck is the lenghty sync time not storage space.

That's not really full node it is more like a "full" node (I've also seen the former called archive nodes). You can't serve blocks to other users if you don't store them.

Quote
I also noticed that it has logic to stop sending blocks requested that have been pruned. So there is assumption that there are full nodes out there to give you the block that others have pruned.

Exactly.


What is the purpose? Is there a way to validate the chain in a way that would allow for pruned or compressed blocks? If you need full chain to validate then doesnt really serve a useful purpose imo.

You can still validate and forward new blocks and transactions.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
April 26, 2015, 05:31:31 PM
 Roll Eyes why talk about node ... in a gold thread ?
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
April 26, 2015, 05:29:30 PM
These things will be plugged in everywhere as full nodes:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/innovatek-stick-pc/



I don't think 64 GB of storage is gonna cut it.

Long term, pruning.

Full nodes needs all blockchain on disk. No place for "pruning".
Did you see the latest commit on pruning? Allows you to specify max disk usage and it prunes old blocks.. validates by reindexing which downloads all chain then prunes. You check it out? I wonder what the point is if youhave todownload the full chain anyway why prune? The main bottleneck is the lenghty sync time not storage space.

That's not really full node it is more like a "full" node (I've also seen the former called archive nodes). You can't serve blocks to other users if you don't store them.

Quote
I also noticed that it has logic to stop sending blocks requested that have been pruned. So there is assumption that there are full nodes out there to give you the block that others have pruned.

Exactly.


What is the purpose? Is there a way to validate the chain in a way that would allow for pruned or compressed blocks? If you need full chain to validate then doesnt really serve a useful purpose imo.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
April 26, 2015, 05:18:01 PM
These things will be plugged in everywhere as full nodes:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/innovatek-stick-pc/



I don't think 64 GB of storage is gonna cut it.

Long term, pruning.

Full nodes needs all blockchain on disk. No place for "pruning".
Did you see the latest commit on pruning? Allows you to specify max disk usage and it prunes old blocks.. validates by reindexing which downloads all chain then prunes. You check it out? I wonder what the point is if youhave todownload the full chain anyway why prune? The main bottleneck is the lenghty sync time not storage space.

That's not really full node it is more like a "full" node (I've also seen the former called archive nodes). You can't serve blocks to other users if you don't store them.

Quote
I also noticed that it has logic to stop sending blocks requested that have been pruned. So there is assumption that there are full nodes out there to give you the block that others have pruned.

Exactly.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
April 26, 2015, 04:53:38 PM
These things will be plugged in everywhere as full nodes:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/innovatek-stick-pc/



I don't think 64 GB of storage is gonna cut it.

Long term, pruning.

Full nodes needs all blockchain on disk. No place for "pruning".
Did you see the latest commit on pruning? Allows you to specify max disk usage and it prunes old blocks.. validates by reindexing which downloads all chain then prunes. You check it out? I wonder what the point is if youhave todownload the full chain anyway why prune? The main bottleneck is the lenghty sync time not storage space.
I also noticed that it has logic to stop sending blocks requested that have been pruned. So there is assumption that there are full nodes out there to give you the block that others have pruned.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
April 26, 2015, 04:33:23 PM
These things will be plugged in everywhere as full nodes:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/innovatek-stick-pc/



I don't think 64 GB of storage is gonna cut it.

Long term, pruning.

Full nodes needs all blockchain on disk. No place for "pruning".
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
April 26, 2015, 04:15:29 PM
These things will be plugged in everywhere as full nodes:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/innovatek-stick-pc/



I don't think 64 GB of storage is gonna cut it.

Long term, pruning.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
April 26, 2015, 04:14:38 PM
These things will be plugged in everywhere as full nodes:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/innovatek-stick-pc/



I don't think 64 GB of storage is gonna cut it.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
April 26, 2015, 04:03:00 PM
These things will be plugged in everywhere as full nodes:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/innovatek-stick-pc/

legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
April 26, 2015, 02:18:47 PM

If any hard trade-off actually does arise in Bitcoin, it will simply fork into two, with all holders having the same amount of coins in each. If, for example as the article suggests, there ever turns out to be a hard trade-off between scalability and Bitcoin's core property of "unimpeachability of transactions," we will have BitcoinScalable (not completely censorship resistant) and BitcoinClassic (absolutely untouchable money, but not shopper's paradise - other things like maybe OT will be necessary for more trivial transactions).

I don't see any need to worry. Once any such trade-offs encounter Fork Arbitrage (FA) on the market, the path will be clear enough. If both survive and have value, it really was a hard trade-off and there will be two. Governments can at most control one, never both.
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
April 26, 2015, 01:48:32 PM
Does anyone see the connection between Mt.Gox and the western banking system?

Your balances in the bank are soon only nominally same thing as cash in hand. They never were quite the same, but as convertibility is severed, the price will also diverge.

I see the connection. But I also see a difference: with mtGox, when it became clear the risk was substantial, trading sites popped up that allowed trading of the goxBTC IOUs vs. real BTC. That's probably not going to happen with traditional bank deposits.

Why? That happened in Cyprus (and still does afaik). Bank accounts were frozen and later mercilessly cut, and withdraw limits put into place. Of course they trade at a discount to "real money" (euros LOL  Tongue )

When it happens unionwide, then of course cash reserves are so low as to be insufficient for the economy. Also it's unlikely that cash will be trusted either, since the CB is the enemy of the people, and they have declared war on cash as well.

The bolsheviks managed to stall at max 98% of the production in Russia with their insane policies combined with ruthless terror. Let's see how the current EU do it, better eat well in preparation  Angry
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