Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 498.

domob

legendary

Activity: 1135

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Quote from: 2_Thumbs_Up on February 12, 2015, 02:26:30 PM

Quote from: domob on February 12, 2015, 01:01:48 PM

Quote from: lunarboy on February 12, 2015, 10:10:20 AM

The race to the bottom continues.

Sweden cuts it's interest rates to negative 0.1% and starts QE

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/business/international/sweden-cuts-interest-rate-and-announces-bond-buying-program.html

Quote

The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate. When the loans are due, banks will pay back less than they borrowed.

Does that only sound crazy to me or anyone else? I've already accepted the ECB's negative interest (i. e., fees) when banks park money at it. But at least a loan is still at positive 0.05%. So if I'm a Swedish bank, I'll just get a billion in cash, put it in my vault, pay back less and profit? How's that ever going to work out?

I don't think that is true. I tried to look up the details and from what I understand, the swedish central bank always uses the "steering interest rate" (reporänta), and either subtracts or adds 0,75% to the actual interest rates for loans, depending on which way the loan is going. So the interest rate for lending from the CB is -0.10+0.75 = 0.65%, whereas the interest rate for lending money to the CB is-0.10-0.75 = -0.85%.

I'm still not 100% sure though

Yes, that makes more sense - so the article probably has it wrong. This would be similar to the ECB's policy, then, and at least somewhat more sane.

rocks

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Activity: 1153

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Quote from: cocksOut on February 12, 2015, 10:14:58 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 11, 2015, 04:53:26 PM

Quote from: o0‡0o on February 11, 2015, 04:09:36 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 11, 2015, 01:34:52 PM

we need to keep Bitcoin focused on the money function. that is what distinguishes it from altcoins and Bitcoin 2.0 platforms and potentially SC's:

http://coincenter.org/2015/02/cryptocurrency-investments-different-securities-investments/

no, bitcoin needs to focus on the gold function,

money is worthless it just passes from one hand to the next. its not a store of value

since you're new here, i'll forgive you. everyone knows that when i talk about Money, i mean Sound Money (fixed supply).

you need inflation to keep up with the growth of the economy. economics 101.

Printing money in any manner is effectively counterfeiting the ledger. There is no difference between creating fake gold coins to create artificial new supply or printing money to create artificial new supply.

There is a reason the constitution specifically mentions counterfeiting as a punishable offence in Article I, Section 8, Clause 6. It's a short document, nothing made it in unless it was a fundamental attribute for a functioning society. Only took ~130 years for the banking oligarchy to re-educate you and convince you that free candy was worth becoming a serf for.

NotLambchop

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 254

Quote from: brg444 on February 12, 2015, 02:22:38 PM

Quote from: NotLambchop on February 12, 2015, 01:34:24 PM

^
From the article you quoted:
"The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate."
Are you a Swedish commercial bank? If not, you're unlikely to get credit from teh central bank. So now you know.

but that's the whole point Cheesy

What? That deflation (and, by extension, deflationary currencies) is a horrible thing, requiring lulzy stuff like negative interest rates?
Point taken.

2_Thumbs_Up

sr. member

Activity: 323

Merit: 251

Quote from: domob on February 12, 2015, 01:01:48 PM

Quote from: lunarboy on February 12, 2015, 10:10:20 AM

The race to the bottom continues.

Sweden cuts it's interest rates to negative 0.1% and starts QE

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/business/international/sweden-cuts-interest-rate-and-announces-bond-buying-program.html

Quote

The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate. When the loans are due, banks will pay back less than they borrowed.

Does that only sound crazy to me or anyone else? I've already accepted the ECB's negative interest (i. e., fees) when banks park money at it. But at least a loan is still at positive 0.05%. So if I'm a Swedish bank, I'll just get a billion in cash, put it in my vault, pay back less and profit? How's that ever going to work out?

I don't think that is true. I tried to look up the details and from what I understand, the swedish central bank always uses the "steering interest rate" (reporänta), and either subtracts or adds 0,75% to the actual interest rates for loans, depending on which way the loan is going. So the interest rate for lending from the CB is -0.10+0.75 = 0.65%, whereas the interest rate for lending money to the CB is-0.10-0.75 = -0.85%.

I'm still not 100% sure though

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Quote from: NotLambchop on February 12, 2015, 01:34:24 PM

^
From the article you quoted:
"The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate."
Are you a Swedish commercial bank? If not, you're unlikely to get credit from teh central bank. So now you know.

but that's the whole point Cheesy

bambou

sr. member

Activity: 346

Merit: 250

Quote from: lunarboy on February 12, 2015, 01:22:19 PM

Quote from: domob on February 12, 2015, 01:01:48 PM

Quote from: lunarboy on February 12, 2015, 10:10:20 AM

The race to the bottom continues.

Sweden cuts it's interest rates to negative 0.1% and starts QE

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/business/international/sweden-cuts-interest-rate-and-announces-bond-buying-program.html

Quote

The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate. When the loans are due, banks will pay back less than they borrowed.

Does that only sound crazy to me or anyone else? I've already accepted the ECB's negative interest (i. e., fees) when banks park money at it. But at least a loan is still at positive 0.05%. So if I'm a Swedish bank, I'll just get a billion in cash, put it in my vault, pay back less and profit? How's that ever going to work out?

Nothing makes sense any more. Perhaps i'll nip over to sweden and get a couple of billion Krona loan then buy bitcoin with it. Huh

Feed the 1%
Bail in the 99%

Cool

NotLambchop

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 254

^
From the article you quoted:
"The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate."
Are you a Swedish commercial bank? If not, you're unlikely to get credit from teh central bank. So now you know.

lunarboy

hero member

Activity: 544

Merit: 500

Quote from: domob on February 12, 2015, 01:01:48 PM

Quote from: lunarboy on February 12, 2015, 10:10:20 AM

The race to the bottom continues.

Sweden cuts it's interest rates to negative 0.1% and starts QE

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/business/international/sweden-cuts-interest-rate-and-announces-bond-buying-program.html

Quote

The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate. When the loans are due, banks will pay back less than they borrowed.

Does that only sound crazy to me or anyone else? I've already accepted the ECB's negative interest (i. e., fees) when banks park money at it. But at least a loan is still at positive 0.05%. So if I'm a Swedish bank, I'll just get a billion in cash, put it in my vault, pay back less and profit? How's that ever going to work out?

Nothing makes sense any more. Perhaps i'll nip over to sweden and get a couple of billion Krona loan then buy bitcoin with it. Huh

domob

legendary

Activity: 1135

Merit: 1166

Quote from: lunarboy on February 12, 2015, 10:10:20 AM

The race to the bottom continues.

Sweden cuts it's interest rates to negative 0.1% and starts QE

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/business/international/sweden-cuts-interest-rate-and-announces-bond-buying-program.html

Quote

The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate. When the loans are due, banks will pay back less than they borrowed.

Does that only sound crazy to me or anyone else? I've already accepted the ECB's negative interest (i. e., fees) when banks park money at it. But at least a loan is still at positive 0.05%. So if I'm a Swedish bank, I'll just get a billion in cash, put it in my vault, pay back less and profit? How's that ever going to work out?

NewLiberty

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1002

Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: cocksOut on February 12, 2015, 10:14:58 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 11, 2015, 04:53:26 PM

Quote from: o0‡0o on February 11, 2015, 04:09:36 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 11, 2015, 01:34:52 PM

we need to keep Bitcoin focused on the money function. that is what distinguishes it from altcoins and Bitcoin 2.0 platforms and potentially SC's:

http://coincenter.org/2015/02/cryptocurrency-investments-different-securities-investments/

no, bitcoin needs to focus on the gold function,

money is worthless it just passes from one hand to the next. its not a store of value

since you're new here, i'll forgive you. everyone knows that when i talk about Money, i mean Sound Money (fixed supply).

you need inflation to keep up with the growth of the economy. economics 101.

Let us know when you get to grad school.
Econ 501 would be a good place to start.
Or start here:
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/political-science/17-100j-political-economy-i-fall-2010/

uki

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1000

cryptojunk bag holder

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 11, 2015, 10:00:11 AM

Gold Collapsing. Bitcoin bottoming.

there were several events in the end of January /beginning of the February that were particularly gold-negative in the short term, namely, option expiration, massaged employment data. These plus the pace of the growth from the beginning of January plus the latest CoT data pointed for a corrective move in gold. Once $1230 was broken to the downside we are at the crossroads regarding the medium-term perspective. On the positive side is the historical trend, with 40+ years of data first four months of the year should be PM (gold) - positive. Let's how it resolves and if Bitcoin bottoming would be somewhere close to the gold bottom.

NotLambchop

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 254

Quote from: cocksOut on February 12, 2015, 10:14:58 AM

...economics 101.

Not here, bro Angry

This thread is where Bitcoin's ~~crazies~~ intellectual elite come to mate & lay eggs. Feel free to marvel, but don't feed or disturb.
I'm gonna let you slide this one time 'coz you're new.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on February 12, 2015, 10:12:58 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 12, 2015, 09:15:16 AM

Let's see.

I want 5% of which market?

Bitcoin isn't a transaction processing network. Bitcoin is money, and nothing else.

You mean it isn't a WoW asset trading platform?

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: cocksOut on February 12, 2015, 10:14:58 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 11, 2015, 04:53:26 PM

Quote from: o0‡0o on February 11, 2015, 04:09:36 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 11, 2015, 01:34:52 PM

we need to keep Bitcoin focused on the money function. that is what distinguishes it from altcoins and Bitcoin 2.0 platforms and potentially SC's:

http://coincenter.org/2015/02/cryptocurrency-investments-different-securities-investments/

no, bitcoin needs to focus on the gold function,

money is worthless it just passes from one hand to the next. its not a store of value

since you're new here, i'll forgive you. everyone knows that when i talk about Money, i mean Sound Money (fixed supply).

you need inflation to keep up with the growth of the economy. economics 101.

Correction:

Keynesian Economics101. For special interests only.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

The insanity continues.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/sweden-cuts-rate-announces-qe-1423731254

cocksOut

newbie

Activity: 8

Merit: 0

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 11, 2015, 04:53:26 PM

Quote from: o0‡0o on February 11, 2015, 04:09:36 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 11, 2015, 01:34:52 PM

we need to keep Bitcoin focused on the money function. that is what distinguishes it from altcoins and Bitcoin 2.0 platforms and potentially SC's:

http://coincenter.org/2015/02/cryptocurrency-investments-different-securities-investments/

no, bitcoin needs to focus on the gold function,
https://i.imgur.com/GdO3zHg.gif
money is worthless it just passes from one hand to the next. its not a store of value
https://i.imgur.com/ehYCZuK.gif

since you're new here, i'll forgive you. everyone knows that when i talk about Money, i mean Sound Money (fixed supply).

you need inflation to keep up with the growth of the economy. economics 101.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 12, 2015, 09:15:16 AM

Let's see.

I want 5% of which market?

Bitcoin isn't a transaction processing network. Bitcoin is money, and nothing else.

lunarboy

hero member

Activity: 544

Merit: 500

The race to the bottom continues.

Sweden cuts it's interest rates to negative 0.1% and starts QE

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/business/international/sweden-cuts-interest-rate-and-announces-bond-buying-program.html

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Let's see.

I want 5% of which market?

Melbustus

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1004

Quote from: cypherdoc on February 11, 2015, 02:37:01 PM

So for 5 billion people, I think that bitcoin will be more relevant than the internet.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/how-bitcoin-may-have-more-impact-than-the-internet-2015-2?r=US

@wences (and Ted Rogers, also from Xapo) continue to be spot-on regarding the long-view, and the position that bitcoin's greatest impact will be as *money*, not the amorphous "blockchain technology" so over-hyped these days.

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