Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 591.

thezerg

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Quote from: cypherdoc on January 01, 2015, 07:10:49 PM

Quote from: Odalv on January 01, 2015, 07:05:27 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 01, 2015, 07:01:46 PM

... we can let those guys insert an op_code ...

Do you know how many op_codes bitcoin already supports and what they do ?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script

nope. i'm just going along with BS's new way of presenting this argument. if we shouldn't prevent the spvp op_code, why should we prevent op_codes submitted by OT or any other alt or Bitcoin 2.0?

Just like with bitcoin we should evaluate these new opcodes on their technical merit not on who submitted them.

iCEBREAKER

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: adam3us on January 02, 2015, 08:17:59 AM

You know Peter Todd self-admits freely that he hasnt figured out if tree chains work at incentive level yet, its the kernel of an idea that may or may not work - not an implementable spec.

Yes, TCs are in the early research stage. But even if that idea isn't viable (pun intended), I'd still rather use sidechains secured by POW than POS - especially NXT's particular version.

Thanks for making me elaborate!

adam3us

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in bitcoin we trust

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on January 02, 2015, 08:14:48 AM

Quote from: kodtycoon on January 02, 2015, 07:23:16 AM

" secured by the nxt blockchain "

Secured by Proof of Stake?

Good luck with that. You'll need it, esp given NXT's extremely top heavy distribution and previous problems:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/112278/breaking-bter-hacked-50m-nxt-stolen

My bet is on VIA's treechains, secured by Proof of Work in the form of merged scrypt mining.

You know Peter Todd self-admits freely that he hasnt figured out if tree chains work at incentive level yet, its the kernel of an idea that may or may not work - not an implementable spec. Its based on full node only model, somewhat like the respendable version of my commited tx idea https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206303.15. So tree-chains wont have the same scaling properties if they do work, but its an interesting line of exploration. I'm interested to see if he can make it work, or to add ideas if I can. I didnt see anything further yet beyond the common inputs (from a 4hr late night IRC chat between Peter & myself) that went into both respendable committed tx and tree-chains. And as far as that goes committed-tx dont quite work either due to an issue Peter Todd describes as the proof-of-publication issue.

Adam

darkmind

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Quote from: xcapator on January 02, 2015, 06:38:18 AM

When btc is as big as gold, it will itself become a benchmark. Hold gold for privacy, hold bitcoin for convenience, no need for fiat in this world. even apple pay is unnecessary.

fiat ain't gonna disappear anytime soon and anyone who thinks it is, well in my opinion they're just fooling themselves

adam3us

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in bitcoin we trust

Quote from: stereotype on January 02, 2015, 07:31:01 AM

Quote from: kodtycoon on January 02, 2015, 07:23:16 AM

you guys know that nxt has essentially beaten bitcoin to sidechains .......

Oh boy. This will be interesting.

Cue the @Garzik et al, derision!

I dont want any death threats (you know Jeff Garzik tweeted about getting some after saying something derogatory about NXT and technobabble) but for a long while NXT was closed source, and since it became open, I never took the trouble to try to decipher whether what it claims to do is actually achieved in a decentralised way. Actually beyond that I dont even know what it claims to do beyond "bitcoin 2.0" like bitshares, and the rest.

If someone works up the energy, be sure to explain what they're talking about to us.

Adam

iCEBREAKER

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: kodtycoon on January 02, 2015, 07:23:16 AM

" secured by the nxt blockchain "

Secured by Proof of Stake?

Good luck with that. You'll need it, esp given NXT's extremely top heavy distribution and previous problems:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/112278/breaking-bter-hacked-50m-nxt-stolen

My bet is on VIA's treechains, secured by Proof of Work in the form of merged scrypt mining.

kodtycoon

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Quote from: stereotype on January 02, 2015, 07:31:01 AM

Quote from: kodtycoon on January 02, 2015, 07:23:16 AM

you guys know that nxt has essentially beaten bitcoin to sidechains .......

Oh boy. This will be interesting.

Cue the @Garzik et al, derision!

someone should tweet @Garzick and let him down easy.. might be easier on him if it comes from an empathetic bitcoiner than a smug nxter lol

stereotype

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Quote from: kodtycoon on January 02, 2015, 07:23:16 AM

you guys know that nxt has essentially beaten bitcoin to sidechains .......

Oh boy. This will be interesting.

Cue the @Garzik et al, derision!

kodtycoon

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Quote from: cbeast on January 01, 2015, 11:40:21 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 01, 2015, 11:14:06 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 01, 2015, 11:07:17 PM

Quote from: cbeast on January 01, 2015, 10:46:08 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 01, 2015, 10:35:31 PM

Bitcoins killer app is SOV.

If we allow an offramp from MC to SC's, I think that goes away.

I think the whole SC thing is a red herring. If they can't do it without "social structures" then it's not Bitcoin. OTOH, the social structure crowd has plenty of space for developing mining pool "social structures" that incentives decentralization through Delegated 'insert-term-here' technology.

I think you mean Trojan Horse.

Someone is going to lose alot of money. In fact, most people investing in cryptocurrencies are going to lose money. That's how bull markets are.

i mean, we can't bring everyone with us. it wouldn't be fair.

We'll see if/when SCs are no longer vaporware. Perhaps it will only be the VCs and IPO investors that lose money.

you guys know that nxt has essentially beaten bitcoin to sidechains and not only that but its done it with out the need for side chains.. ie the side coins are secured by the nxt blockchain so theres no need for secondary chains

its going live @ block 330000 i think. just thought id burst your sidechain bubbles Cheesy

the currencies built on top can have their own fuctions, distribution rate/methods, need to lock nxt to use them etc etc.. they just dont need their own chain.

xcapator

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Here I Am !!

When btc is as big as gold, it will itself become a benchmark. Hold gold for privacy, hold bitcoin for convenience, no need for fiat in this world. even apple pay is unnecessary.

sickpig

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Quote from: adam3us on January 01, 2015, 06:40:37 PM

Quote from: sickpig on January 01, 2015, 06:12:03 PM

Quote from: adam3us on January 01, 2015, 04:29:51 PM

Other things also snarks can do magical things (full node validation and low bandwidth), sharding like Rusty Russel is exploring with pettycoin (its not an alt, its an approach to sharding bitcoin).

Rusty Russell? The creator of iptables/netfilter?

Edit: a brief search confirmed we have another main linux kernel developer on board

Ayup the one and same. He has a video up about pettycoin chain sharding https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzst_gChOr8.

btw that is a kind of (non-pegged) sidechain and you hear him talking about a gateway or federated gateway. That is like a federated peg. (Yeah he knows its related, he's hanging out on #bitcoin-wizards and discussing pettycoin design with GMaxwell and others).

(Pettycoin is a micropayment network bitcoin auxiliary chain aiming at scaling to 100k tx/sec.)

Adam

Thanks for the info Adam, appreciated. I will have a look.

Somehow it seems that ex/still active kernel hackers are attracted to bitcoin world. Actually we have three of them involved (that I'm aware of): Garzik, Kolivas and now Russell. All of them did a lot of good stuff in the kernel sphere.

tvbcof

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Quote from: cypherdoc on January 01, 2015, 11:07:17 PM

Someone is going to lose alot of money. In fact, most people investing in cryptocurrencies are going to lose money. That's how bull markets are.

And how pump-n-dumps are. Just sayin'

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 01, 2015, 11:14:06 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 01, 2015, 11:07:17 PM

Quote from: cbeast on January 01, 2015, 10:46:08 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 01, 2015, 10:35:31 PM

Bitcoins killer app is SOV.

If we allow an offramp from MC to SC's, I think that goes away.

I think the whole SC thing is a red herring. If they can't do it without "social structures" then it's not Bitcoin. OTOH, the social structure crowd has plenty of space for developing mining pool "social structures" that incentives decentralization through Delegated 'insert-term-here' technology.

I think you mean Trojan Horse.

Someone is going to lose alot of money. In fact, most people investing in cryptocurrencies are going to lose money. That's how bull markets are.

i mean, we can't bring everyone with us. it wouldn't be fair.

We'll see if/when SCs are no longer vaporware. Perhaps it will only be the VCs and IPO investors that lose money.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: cypherdoc on January 01, 2015, 11:07:17 PM

Quote from: cbeast on January 01, 2015, 10:46:08 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 01, 2015, 10:35:31 PM

Bitcoins killer app is SOV.

If we allow an offramp from MC to SC's, I think that goes away.

I think the whole SC thing is a red herring. If they can't do it without "social structures" then it's not Bitcoin. OTOH, the social structure crowd has plenty of space for developing mining pool "social structures" that incentives decentralization through Delegated 'insert-term-here' technology.

I think you mean Trojan Horse.

Someone is going to lose alot of money. In fact, most people investing in cryptocurrencies are going to lose money. That's how bull markets are.

i mean, we can't bring everyone with us. it wouldn't be fair.

cypherdoc

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Merit: 1002

Quote from: cbeast on January 01, 2015, 10:46:08 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 01, 2015, 10:35:31 PM

Bitcoins killer app is SOV.

If we allow an offramp from MC to SC's, I think that goes away.

I think the whole SC thing is a red herring. If they can't do it without "social structures" then it's not Bitcoin. OTOH, the social structure crowd has plenty of space for developing mining pool "social structures" that incentives decentralization through Delegated 'insert-term-here' technology.

I think you mean Trojan Horse.

Someone is going to lose alot of money. In fact, most people investing in cryptocurrencies are going to lose money. That's how bull markets are.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 01, 2015, 10:35:31 PM

Bitcoins killer app is SOV.

If we allow an offramp from MC to SC's, I think that goes away.

I think the whole SC thing is a red herring. If they can't do it without "social structures" then it's not Bitcoin. OTOH, the social structure crowd has plenty of space for developing mining pool "social structures" that incentives decentralization through Delegated 'insert-term-here' technology.

cypherdoc

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Bitcoins killer app is SOV.

If we allow an offramp from MC to SC's, I think that goes away.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: tvbcof on January 01, 2015, 08:47:42 PM

Quote from: cbeast on January 01, 2015, 05:12:46 PM

No. He said that EVERYTHING approaches zero profitability in a free market. Your hypothesis then is it's not worth doing anything in life because everything is worthless.

I was just trying to gauge where Justus's head was at. Sometime's it's hard to tell with his type. Adam says he's OK, but I'm not so sure. His response tells me that he's probably mostly just another pumper.

Oh well...old stackers like the doc and I, if we are being honest with ourselves, recognize that we owe a lot to the pumpers and the 'principled Libertarian' shtick is hands-down the most effective in Bitcoinland for whatever reason. Justus rocks here.

Hey J-man: You pump 'em and I'll dump 'em homey.

The cool thing is that someone else is paying him at least enough to keep his pantry stocked with Top-Ramen, though with Monetas/Concentric/whatever it seems quite possible that it may be me in one of those 'your tax dollars at work' type of deals.

I will vouch for Justus. I know him personally and we've had many discussions. He is a white hat. He is much younger than me and I don't agree with his politics, but every generation must make their own path.

tvbcof

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Quote from: cbeast on January 01, 2015, 05:12:46 PM

No. He said that EVERYTHING approaches zero profitability in a free market. Your hypothesis then is it's not worth doing anything in life because everything is worthless.

I was just trying to gauge where Justus's head was at. Sometime's it's hard to tell with his type. Adam says he's OK, but I'm not so sure. His response tells me that he's probably mostly just another pumper.

Oh well...old stackers like the doc and I, if we are being honest with ourselves, recognize that we owe a lot to the pumpers and the 'principled Libertarian' shtick is hands-down the most effective in Bitcoinland for whatever reason. Justus rocks here.

Hey J-man: You pump 'em and I'll dump 'em homey.

The cool thing is that someone else is paying him at least enough to keep his pantry stocked with Top-Ramen, though with Monetas/Concentric/whatever it seems quite possible that it may be me in one of those 'your tax dollars at work' type of deals.

BlindMayorBitcorn

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zing*

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