Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 73.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: inca on August 03, 2015, 12:24:07 PM

Do any of you have any links to a side chain white paper or proposal for bitcoin? I am keen to read the technicals in a bit more detail.

Thanks..

or is this it: https://blockstream.com/sidechains.pdf

that's it

inca

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Do any of you have any links to a side chain white paper or proposal for bitcoin? I am keen to read the technicals in a bit more detail.

Thanks..

or is this it: https://blockstream.com/sidechains.pdf

cypherdoc

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Quote from: cypherdoc on August 03, 2015, 11:39:18 AM

here's the formalization of the stupidity behind TBI's inflation proposal last Friday:

https://medium.com/@twobitidiot/the-21mm-btc-soft-cap-71e14cd09946?source=tw-dd6a8357807c-1438618892173

but he does bring up a VERY good point that directly undermines the Cripplecoiner's case:

Now I know that centralization will decrease over time. Current holders will get diluted by a third as the remaining seven million bitcoins are mined. And as bitcoin appreciates in value, early investors will likely reduce their positions and lock in gains. So even those who could temporarily tank the market with large sell orders (intentionally or otherwise, read: Bearwhale) will probably be held at bay, and their power to truly manipulate market pricing is limited. (Wealth concentration isn’t really a risk to new long-term investors, but it does ensure that it will be take many, many years and probably several unmitigated wipeouts of derivatives markets before a healthy infrastructure can emerge.)

It seems a bit perverse that 100 private capitalists could reap enormous gains in the event that the currency become a developing economy reserve, but there’s nothing unique or inherently wrong about that dynamic. Without speculators, bitcoin won’t hit the critical market cap and liquidity it needs to emerge as a truly viable reserve. So again, the wealth concentration issue is just the weak argument for adding low inflation to bitcoin (to gradually dilute down the largest holders). It’s not an industry killer, but the optics probably suck enough to significantly constrain growth.

if we keep Cripplecoin as is and attempt to make it a "settlement layer" with only 100 or so private capitalists as owners, what is the likelihood that the other 6 billion users worldwide will come on board with this new system? answer: they won't. it will be an even worse system of wealth concentration than we have today. and with the attitudes displayed by the most vocal advocates of Cripplecoin advocates (both technical and non technical) in this thread and elsewhere, are these really the new economic masters you want to bow down to? i say, "hell no".

another quote from the blog:

One of the primary untested assumptions confronting the industry is that this anticipated fee-based mining incentive can work at scale. At best, that will mean that we probably end up with a network that is more expensive than existing card networks and money transfer options. At worst, that will mean that the network is constantly threatened by double spending attacks, undermining confidence in the entire bitcoin technology stack that is being built out today.

bold part mine. Bitcoin won't get more expensive, fee-wise, if we bring on many, many more tx's onto the MAINchain that will help spread the costs and provide enough profit for mining to expand and grow. this is why i'm so against all these offchain solutions that have been presented like SC's and LN. furthermore, this isn't novel thinking; it was ALWAYS in the original Satoshi vision that these Cripplecoiner's are so quick to dismiss and trash.

cypherdoc

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growth? what f*cking growth?:

bad news for gold and silver. the top 2 miners:

cypherdoc

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exactly what inflation are you talking about? oil, food, miners, commodities all going DOWN. all i hear is that great sucking sound and sweet smell of Deflation:

Jdj1727

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Quote from: cypherdoc on August 03, 2015, 11:48:37 AM

this can't be good:

Does NOT look promising. BTC on the other hand, is starting to build some nice momentum.

cypherdoc

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this can't be good:

cypherdoc

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Activity: 1764

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here's the formalization of the stupidity behind TBI's inflation proposal last Friday:

https://medium.com/@twobitidiot/the-21mm-btc-soft-cap-71e14cd09946?source=tw-dd6a8357807c-1438618892173

but he does bring up a VERY good point that directly undermines the Cripplecoiner's case:

Now I know that centralization will decrease over time. Current holders will get diluted by a third as the remaining seven million bitcoins are mined. And as bitcoin appreciates in value, early investors will likely reduce their positions and lock in gains. So even those who could temporarily tank the market with large sell orders (intentionally or otherwise, read: Bearwhale) will probably be held at bay, and their power to truly manipulate market pricing is limited. (Wealth concentration isn’t really a risk to new long-term investors, but it does ensure that it will be take many, many years and probably several unmitigated wipeouts of derivatives markets before a healthy infrastructure can emerge.)

It seems a bit perverse that 100 private capitalists could reap enormous gains in the event that the currency become a developing economy reserve, but there’s nothing unique or inherently wrong about that dynamic. Without speculators, bitcoin won’t hit the critical market cap and liquidity it needs to emerge as a truly viable reserve. So again, the wealth concentration issue is just the weak argument for adding low inflation to bitcoin (to gradually dilute down the largest holders). It’s not an industry killer, but the optics probably suck enough to significantly constrain growth.

if we keep Cripplecoin as is and attempt to make it a "settlement layer" with only 100 or so private capitalists as owners, what is the likelihood that the other 6 billion users worldwide will come on board with this new system? answer: they won't. it will be an even worse system of wealth concentration than we have today. and with the attitudes displayed by the most vocal advocates of Cripplecoin advocates (both technical and non technical) in this thread and elsewhere, are these really the new economic masters you want to bow down to? i say, "hell no".

cypherdoc

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Quote from: Jdj1727 on August 03, 2015, 11:02:05 AM

You guys/girls hold gold/silver as well as BTC?

not me.

cypherdoc

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remember this one? how could you not? i just showed this to you last Friday. and many times before:

Meuh6879

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Quote from: Natalia_AnatolioPAMM on August 03, 2015, 03:22:57 AM

Quote from: klee on August 03, 2015, 02:52:44 AM

Mark Karpeles retells the Mt. Gox story!
http://youtu.be/JCR3722ACTI?a

that's even funny! how does he do that

like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EscuOuXx3JM
alternate : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmHbYG7TGp4

Jdj1727

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You guys/girls hold gold/silver as well as BTC?

cypherdoc

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$DJI continuing to catch down to the $DJT. $DJT valiantly trying to lie to you about everything being OK:

cypherdoc

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Quote from: Adrian-x on August 03, 2015, 10:14:36 AM

Quote from: majamalu on August 03, 2015, 02:36:54 AM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 03, 2015, 02:24:26 AM

Quote from: majamalu on August 03, 2015, 01:58:43 AM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 03, 2015, 01:32:47 AM

IF AND ONLY IF technical and/or economic damage (IE actual congestion) occurs and persists as a direct result of the 1MB cap, the present controversy and contention will dissipate and be replaced by a rough consensus including MP.

The problem is that what you call "actual congestion" or "economic damage" may be called "nice fee market" by others.

Wrong. The objective definition of "actual congestion" is "competitive fees no longer properly prioritizing their tx."

The problem is that what you call "competitive fees" may be called "economic damage" by others.

Actually what is refer to as "Competitive fees" or "economic damage" is actually artificial economic manipulation, competitive fees that results from a block size limit (limited money velocity) are in original as benign to the market as artificial interest rates set by central bankers.

This type of manipulation is consistent with central planning. Marxist central planing just uses a shorter rope.

and that is exactly what the Cripplecoiners are all about. they've all but admitted that it is not a technical limitation that they are worried about but that it is about preventing the "FreeShitArmy" from using Bitcoin. i'm amazed at the level of greed being displayed.

personally, i've always thought about Bitcoin fitting into the "Sharing Economy" like most other disruptive businesses that are disrupting multiple spaces across the internet. apparently, this is the last thing these guys want to do; SHARE.

the sad thing about it is that many of them are millenials whom i've always viewed as wanting to help vs my many greedy fellow boomers. turns out that many of them are just as greedy and unwilling to share.

Adrian-x

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Quote from: majamalu on August 03, 2015, 02:36:54 AM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 03, 2015, 02:24:26 AM

Quote from: majamalu on August 03, 2015, 01:58:43 AM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 03, 2015, 01:32:47 AM

IF AND ONLY IF technical and/or economic damage (IE actual congestion) occurs and persists as a direct result of the 1MB cap, the present controversy and contention will dissipate and be replaced by a rough consensus including MP.

The problem is that what you call "actual congestion" or "economic damage" may be called "nice fee market" by others.

Wrong. The objective definition of "actual congestion" is "competitive fees no longer properly prioritizing their tx."

The problem is that what you call "competitive fees" may be called "economic damage" by others.

Actually what is refer to as "Competitive fees" or "economic damage" is actually artificial economic manipulation, competitive fees that results from a block size limit (limited money velocity) are in origin as benign to the market as artificial interest rates set by central bankers.

This type of manipulation is consistent with central planning. Marxist central planing just uses a shorter rope.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: Zarathustra on August 03, 2015, 06:36:35 AM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 03, 2015, 01:09:40 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 02, 2015, 11:32:39 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2015, 07:28:34 PM

8
You know what really is "lame as hell?" Argumentum ad populum. Wink

It's a good thing the legal system does not decide cases by popular sentiment, or else you'd be out ~3000 LeBronCoins. Cheesy

Funny how it only became a real issue when I started wanting bigger blocks.

Yes, your hypocrisy became an issue when you begain accepting argumentum ad populum in one instance while in another rejecting it.

If you want to decide block size by a vote in the Court Of Reddit, why not do the same for your controversial hoard of coins' fate? Huh

Same in this thread. The 1MB'ers constitute a minority of professional loosers.

Now, if I were as childish as the greedy Cripplecoiners, I'd jump up and down screaming, "see, see, Rekt!"

Zarathustra

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 03, 2015, 01:09:40 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on August 02, 2015, 11:32:39 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2015, 07:28:34 PM

You know what really is "lame as hell?" Argumentum ad populum. Wink

It's a good thing the legal system does not decide cases by popular sentiment, or else you'd be out ~3000 LeBronCoins. Cheesy

Funny how it only became a real issue when I started wanting bigger blocks.

Yes, your hypocrisy became an issue when you begain accepting argumentum ad populum in one instance while in another rejecting it.

If you want to decide block size by a vote in the Court Of Reddit, why not do the same for your controversial hoard of coins' fate? Huh

Same in this thread. The 1MB'ers constitute a minority of professional loosers.

Erdogan

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 03, 2015, 02:51:30 AM

Quote from: majamalu on August 03, 2015, 02:36:54 AM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 03, 2015, 02:24:26 AM

Quote from: majamalu on August 03, 2015, 01:58:43 AM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 03, 2015, 01:32:47 AM

IF AND ONLY IF technical and/or economic damage (IE actual congestion) occurs and persists as a direct result of the 1MB cap, the present controversy and contention will dissipate and be replaced by a rough consensus including MP.

The problem is that what you call "actual congestion" or "economic damage" may be called "nice fee market" by others.

Wrong. The objective definition of "actual congestion" is "competitive fees no longer properly prioritizing their tx."

The problem is that what you call "competitive fees" may be called "economic damage" by others.

Yes, many Marxists complain about the "economic damage" done by capitalism and marginalism. They have no power here! Grin

"Competitive" is objectively defined, it just means tx with higher fees will tend to be processed with greater priority than tx with lower ones. You know that's a fundamental function of Bitcoin protocol (and in the social contract), right?

The Free Shit Army will always demand moar free shit and always cry moar about the unfairness of open markets. But this is La Serenissima - not fucking Detroit, Havana, Caracas, or Buenos Aires. Cool

The Paris taxi drivers applaud you.

Natalia_AnatolioPAMM

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Quote from: klee on August 03, 2015, 02:52:44 AM

Mark Karpeles retells the Mt. Gox story!
http://youtu.be/JCR3722ACTI?a

that's even funny! how does he do that

klee

legendary

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Mark Karpeles retells the Mt. Gox story!
http://youtu.be/JCR3722ACTI?a

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 73. (Read 2032266 times)