Author

Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 771. (Read 2032266 times)

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
November 05, 2014, 01:03:21 PM
why wouldn't a new investor buy scZC on a fiat exchange?  why wouldn't a miner want to not only mine tx fees for scBTC as well as mine scZC block rewards + scZC tx fees?

don't say there is no one "using" scZC.  Bitcoin's price started out at $0 when no one was "using" it.  look what happened to it.

Why? Because it's essentially a new alt coin. How is the actual zerocoin doing? Any miners bothered merged mining it?

The new investor can either buy the scZC and expose himself to all the risks or buy BTC and use the scBTC zerocoin feature pegged 1:1 with the risk-free put.

Which one would you use?

Sidechains are there to create new applications/features that are not possible on the Bitcoin chain. There's no reason why you would create a sidecoin on top because it defeats the whole purpose of the 2wp.



if the scZC is priced at, let's say $0.006/scZC compared to $342/BTC, i would buy the coin with the greater upside (scZC) that has the same anonymity feature as scBTC since the SC has MM for security with actual direct mining from small miners defecting.

 Cheesy

Miners do not mergemine shitchain.

You're so dishonest in your arguments it is mind blowing. There is no "greater upside". The upside is in using the coin with the biggest liquidity and network effect. Of course speculators are gonna speculate but the market will go for the risk-free put if it wants to protect the value of its investment while using a particular feature.



again, when you say "market" you're confining your definition perspective to that of Bitcoiners only.  other ppl/entities with other agendas will look at this totally differently.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
November 05, 2014, 01:01:25 PM
He doesn't want to admit that the market wants to protect the value of their investment

when you say this do you realize that you're only talking about Bitcoiners?

a SC can be created by anyone with any utility or an agenda, like scZC, or even scGOV.  
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
November 05, 2014, 12:59:27 PM
Sidechains are there to create new applications/features that are not possible on the Bitcoin chain. There's no reason why you would create a sidecoin on top because it defeats the whole purpose of the 2wp.
Unless that is the reason.

 Roll Eyes

An inferior shitcoin will defeat the superior option of risk-averse 2wp?

Do you realise what you are saying here?



my assumption is that the sidecoin, whatever it is, may offer features with greater appeal than Bitcoin itself.  scZC is a good example as it might give perfect anonymity.  and if it's paired with faster tx times for both scZC and scBTC, then yes, alot of ppl should be attracted to it including miners.  especially if the block rewards are being given out in the form of scZC.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
November 05, 2014, 12:48:39 PM
Sidechains are there to create new applications/features that are not possible on the Bitcoin chain. There's no reason why you would create a sidecoin on top because it defeats the whole purpose of the 2wp.
Unless that is the reason.

 Roll Eyes

An inferior shitcoin will defeat the superior option of risk-averse 2wp?

Do you realise what you are saying here?

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
November 05, 2014, 12:47:22 PM
You serious? Are you really comparing btc with this hypothetical scZC?

Btc incubation period was at least a decade long. The amount of innovation in the bitcoin project is huge, but more to the point the reasons why such an hypothetical  sidechain would die young are the same reasons why no other altcoin has already supplanted btc.

He doesn't understand that sidecoin = altcoin.

He can't comprehend why there is no more incentive for miners to merge mine or smaller miners to direct mine sidecoins than regular altcoins.

He doesn't want to admit that the market wants to protect the value of their investment and make it possible to use new features : the essence of sidechains.

Or maybe he does, but he is so disingenuous he will not admit it.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
November 05, 2014, 12:44:12 PM
why wouldn't a new investor buy scZC on a fiat exchange?  why wouldn't a miner want to not only mine tx fees for scBTC as well as mine scZC block rewards + scZC tx fees?

don't say there is no one "using" scZC.  Bitcoin's price started out at $0 when no one was "using" it.  look what happened to it.

Why? Because it's essentially a new alt coin. How is the actual zerocoin doing? Any miners bothered merged mining it?

The new investor can either buy the scZC and expose himself to all the risks or buy BTC and use the scBTC zerocoin feature pegged 1:1 with the risk-free put.

Which one would you use?

Sidechains are there to create new applications/features that are not possible on the Bitcoin chain. There's no reason why you would create a sidecoin on top because it defeats the whole purpose of the 2wp.



if the scZC is priced at, let's say $0.006/scZC compared to $342/BTC, i would buy the coin with the greater upside (scZC) that has the same anonymity feature as scBTC since the SC has MM for security with actual direct mining from small miners defecting.

 Cheesy

Miners do not mergemine shitchain.

You're so dishonest in your arguments it is mind blowing. There is no "greater upside". The upside is in using the coin with the biggest liquidity and network effect. Of course speculators are gonna speculate but the market will go for the risk-free put if it wants to protect the value of its investment while using a particular feature.

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
November 05, 2014, 12:40:23 PM

define this:  scZEROBTC

are you saying another SC would arise once removed from MC?

So we have two sidechains :

A sidechain using only 1:1 pegged unit. This unit offers whatever feature you want, faster tx or zerocoin type privacy.

A sidechain also using 1:1 pegged but issuing, for unknown reasons, a sidecoin. The sidecoin is not fungible with BTC or the scBTC. It has to create its own value. The problem with this chain is there is no interest for the user to use the sidecoin because : a. it offers no additional value than the scBTC on the same chain b. it offers no "risk-free put"

Which chain are people going to use?

why wouldn't a new investor buy scZC on a fiat exchange?  why wouldn't a miner want to not only mine tx fees for scBTC as well as mine scZC block rewards + scZC tx fees?

don't say there is no one "using" scZC.  Bitcoin's price started out at $0 when no one was "using" it.  look what happened to it.

You serious? Are you really comparing btc with this hypothetical scZC?

Btc incubation period was at least a decade long. The amount of innovation in the bitcoin project is huge, but more to the point the reasons why such an hypothetical  sidechain would die young are the same reasons why no other altcoin has already supplanted btc.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
November 05, 2014, 12:38:18 PM
Bitcoin UP!

Surely this has something to do with Sidechains. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

I am wholly unimpressed by what I see in the charts this morning after the proclamations about some price increase.  At least I don't see it going down which is not uncommon when Cyph does one of these 'Bitcoin Up' things here.

The realistic possibility of sidechains does produce some hope for long term value of Bitcoin itself, though, so I would expect a reasonable possibility that the more knowledgeable potential participants are realizing this and making a move in.  Most likely they'll be waiting to see some tangible activities in the sidechains direction, and more than that, waiting to see if the Bitcoin Foundation (through Gavin) manages to spike Bitcoin by inserting exponential growth as a hard-fork.

legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
November 05, 2014, 12:38:07 PM
Sidechains are there to create new applications/features that are not possible on the Bitcoin chain. There's no reason why you would create a sidecoin on top because it defeats the whole purpose of the 2wp.
Unless that is the reason.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
November 05, 2014, 12:35:27 PM
why wouldn't a new investor buy scZC on a fiat exchange?  why wouldn't a miner want to not only mine tx fees for scBTC as well as mine scZC block rewards + scZC tx fees?

don't say there is no one "using" scZC.  Bitcoin's price started out at $0 when no one was "using" it.  look what happened to it.

Why? Because it's essentially a new alt coin. How is the actual zerocoin doing? Any miners bothered merged mining it?

The new investor can either buy the scZC and expose himself to all the risks or buy BTC and use the scBTC zerocoin feature pegged 1:1 with the risk-free put.

Which one would you use?

Sidechains are there to create new applications/features that are not possible on the Bitcoin chain. There's no reason why you would create a sidecoin on top because it defeats the whole purpose of the 2wp.



if the scZC is priced at, let's say $0.006/scZC compared to $342/BTC, i would buy the coin with the greater upside (scZC) that has the same anonymity feature as scBTC since the SC has MM for security with actual direct mining from small miners defecting.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
November 05, 2014, 12:33:48 PM
why wouldn't a new investor buy scZC on a fiat exchange?  why wouldn't a miner want to not only mine tx fees for scBTC as well as mine scZC block rewards + scZC tx fees?

don't say there is no one "using" scZC.  Bitcoin's price started out at $0 when no one was "using" it.  look what happened to it.

Quote
A second problem is that such altchains, like Bitcoin, typically have their own native
cryptocurrency, or altcoin, with a floating price. To access the altchain, users must use a market to
obtain this currency, exposing them to the high risk and volatility associated with new currencies.
Further, the requirement to independently solve the problems of initial distribution and valuation,
while at the same time contending with adverse network effects and a crowded market, discourages
technical innovation while at the same time encouraging market games. This is dangerous not only
100 to those directly participating in these systems, but also to the cryptocurrency industry as a whole.
If the field is seen as too risky by the public, adoption may be hampered, or cryptocurrencies might
be deserted entirely (voluntarily or legislatively)

By creating a sidecoin booted on top of a sidechain you basically reintroduce this problem.

Do you see why when the option exist to enable different features BUT with a risk-averse 2wp, then automatically the market will congregate toward that option and ignore any similar attempt using sidecoins?

Unless of course you want to speculate on pump and dump shitcoins. That's not gonna stop some people from doing that but sidechains do not introduce that problem
N12
donator
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1010
November 05, 2014, 12:31:47 PM
Bitcoin UP!

Surely this has something to do with Sidechains. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

or in spite of.  for now.
You're worrying too much/overthinking it/seeing shadows IMO. If we had a couple more months without a new low, would you be as concerned?
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
November 05, 2014, 12:28:48 PM
why wouldn't a new investor buy scZC on a fiat exchange?  why wouldn't a miner want to not only mine tx fees for scBTC as well as mine scZC block rewards + scZC tx fees?

don't say there is no one "using" scZC.  Bitcoin's price started out at $0 when no one was "using" it.  look what happened to it.

Why? Because it's essentially a new alt coin. How is the actual zerocoin doing? Any miners bothered merged mining it?

The new investor can either buy the scZC and expose himself to all the risks or buy BTC and use the scBTC zerocoin feature pegged 1:1 with the risk-free put.

Which one would you use?

Sidechains are there to create new applications/features that are not possible on the Bitcoin chain. There's no reason why you would create a sidecoin on top because it defeats the whole purpose of the 2wp.

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
November 05, 2014, 12:28:23 PM
Bitcoin UP!

Surely this has something to do with Sidechains. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

You're way too fast, I was planning to post the same as soon as btc start rise again, but you bit me :/ Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
November 05, 2014, 12:20:50 PM
Bitcoin UP!

Surely this has something to do with Sidechains. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

or in spite of.  for now.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
November 05, 2014, 12:19:51 PM

define this:  scZEROBTC

are you saying another SC would arise once removed from MC?

So we have two sidechains :

A sidechain using only 1:1 pegged unit. This unit offers whatever feature you want, faster tx or zerocoin type privacy.

A sidechain also using 1:1 pegged but issuing, for unknown reasons, a sidecoin. The sidecoin is not fungible with BTC or the scBTC. It has to create its own value. The problem with this chain is there is no interest for the user to use the sidecoin because : a. it offers no additional value than the scBTC on the same chain b. it offers no "risk-free put"

Which chain are people going to use?

why wouldn't a new investor buy scZC on a fiat exchange?  why wouldn't a miner want to not only mine tx fees for scBTC as well as mine scZC block rewards + scZC tx fees?

don't say there is no one "using" scZC.  Bitcoin's price started out at $0 when no one was "using" it.  look what happened to it.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
November 05, 2014, 12:16:48 PM
Gold collapsing, Bitcoin UP!

Yay!
I guess you have fun with your PM shorts recently. Wink

I closed them out one dump too soon but that's ok. Ive made  plenty off of tvbcof already. 

You bought some of the BTC I sold up around $1000?  Nicely played!

I know you didn't impact my phyz since it is safe and secure.  It hasn't moved since I bought it (last batch in the mid-late 00's) and I don't expect it to for another decade or two.



I think you guys are deluding yourselves. Once the gold is in a central repository no one moves it unless it is necessary,  people just swap the paper recipes.
N12
donator
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1010
November 05, 2014, 12:15:27 PM
Bitcoin UP!

Surely this has something to do with Sidechains. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
November 05, 2014, 12:12:16 PM
Actually most still think it's gold it's paper gold you transact with it because it's better than gold in that you can move it faster.
It is inflationary. It works with a theoretical 1:1 peg and is discouraged with hi transaction fees.

Not true at all. My gold can move as fast as your garbage.

The scBTC has the same feature as garbagecoin + risk-free put so I'm not gonna use garbage coin.

I'm ignorant here how does one move physical gold as fast as a paper receipt or digital proof of it in electronic form.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
November 05, 2014, 12:05:27 PM
Gold collapsing, Bitcoin UP!

Yay!
I guess you have fun with your PM shorts recently. Wink

I closed them out one dump too soon but that's ok. Ive made  plenty off of tvbcof already. 

You bought some of the BTC I sold up around $1000?  Nicely played!

I know you didn't impact my phyz since it is safe and secure.  It hasn't moved since I bought it (last batch in the mid-late 00's) and I don't expect it to for another decade or two.

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