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Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 81. (Read 2032247 times)

legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276
July 30, 2015, 11:03:14 PM
estimates are going lower and lower:

Prepare for gold prices to plunge...as low as $350

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/30/investing/gold-prices-could-drop-to-350/index.html?category=home

Ya, CNN told me to go all in in Bitcoin in 2011.  Best advice I ever got.  I don't remember if it was them who had my buying PMs back around 2001.  Probably it was since they are so awsome and have made so many average Joes so much money with their great advice over the years.

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
July 30, 2015, 10:41:39 PM
estimates are going lower and lower:

Prepare for gold prices to plunge...as low as $350

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/30/investing/gold-prices-could-drop-to-350/index.html?category=home
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
July 30, 2015, 08:38:25 PM
I'm curious why some people in this thread support the removal of a blocksize cap when Gavin himself suggests this is not conceivable.
Not everyone is susceptible to the Hegelian dialectic that's being employed here.


(Fake) Problem - full blocks

(Astroturf) Reaction - "ZOMG Bitcoin is choking to death"

(In-Q-Tel) Solution - Gavinblocks

Hidden variable - trade off between TPS and security
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
July 30, 2015, 06:50:07 PM
I'm curious why some people in this thread support the removal of a blocksize cap when Gavin himself suggests this is not conceivable.
Not everyone is susceptible to the Hegelian dialectic that's being employed here.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
July 30, 2015, 05:23:26 PM
You said "everyone", the link you posted said 93 of 6199. What is your problem? Tourettes syndrome?


Are you seriously that dense.

I am the one who said everyone.

And it was a joke, referring to the Mike&Gavin army on reddit apparently all "switching my node to XT". From the echo chamber over there it would seem "the community" is near consensus  Grin

So I was confused about who said what. Both nonsense, please consider using a sarc end tag.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
July 30, 2015, 03:43:47 PM
You said "everyone", the link you posted said 93 of 6199. What is your problem? Tourettes syndrome?


Are you seriously that dense.

I am the one who said everyone.

And it was a joke, referring to the Mike&Gavin army on reddit apparently all "switching my node to XT". From the echo chamber over there it would seem "the community" is near consensus  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
July 30, 2015, 03:23:53 PM
I'm curious why some people in this thread support the removal of a blocksize cap when Gavin himself suggests this is not conceivable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3f5yyr/block_size_according_to_technological_growth_by/ctlqzs7

your reading too much into iCE propaganda, I think Gavin has had bad ideas, that doesn't make all his ideas bad, I'd like to think everyone here looks at the facts for everything and doesn't just follow blindly based on history.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
July 30, 2015, 03:21:33 PM

You said "everyone", the link you posted said 93 of 6199. What is your problem? Tourettes syndrome?
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
July 30, 2015, 03:21:06 PM
1. Hard block size unlimited.

2. Accept as valid blocks of size up to X for the time being, X decided by consensus amongst miners and developers and individuals in the community, re the current block size discussion.

3. Produce max Y size blocks for the time being, value of Y (less than X) decided by a (per def benevolent, since it is voluntary) cartel of miners.

4. Each individual miner produces blocks of max size Z, Z decided egoistically to maximize profit, to avoid technical problems and to minimize risk of orphaning, dependent on his trust of the real consensus of the previous points.

tl;dr no hard limit.


it all works so long as the size is a rule set by operation cooperationand not collusion, nodes and miners should be free to break from the pack.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1004
July 30, 2015, 03:20:53 PM
...
Network effect means small mistakes and sub-optimalities are forgiven, and often even substantial ones, but gigantic ones cannot be. An altcoin with orders of magnitude bigger block capabilities, able to scale on the fly because there is no limit, and experiencing no problems because the conjectured issues turned out to be frivolous...that's a tough cookie for the network effect to swallow.
...


Well said.
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
July 30, 2015, 03:05:54 PM
So some carefulness is not wasted.  We will succeed simply by not failing.  The seeds of success are sown into the fabric of the Bitcoin code and architecture.

No, there is competition from altcoins to consider. If we leave 99% of the market on the table because of ultraconservatism about blocksize, we let an altcoin have all that, and Bitcoin gets swept by the wayside. And guess which one ends up more decentralized.

The supposed conservatism or carefulness in keeping the 1MB cap (or growing it only slowly) is entirely illusory. The only position that can conceivably be called conservative is one where the blocksize cap is set as high as is likely to be feasible. The conservative option isn't "do nothing." The conservative option is to set the cap almost as high as we think any competitor will be able to feasibly do so. The network effect will take care of the slop factor, but not if that slop factor is a Texas mile because we didn't even bother aiming.

Quote
Patience...  Bitcoin is still in beta, its so young.  Lets give it the chance to grow up without breaking it along the way.

Over-patience is the same as breaking it. The result is the same because competition is ever-present. Network effect means small mistakes and sub-optimalities are forgiven, and often even substantial ones, but gigantic ones cannot be. An altcoin with orders of magnitude bigger block capabilities, able to scale on the fly because there is no limit, and experiencing no problems because the conjectured issues turned out to be frivolous...that's a tough cookie for the network effect to swallow.

No one cares about an altcoin boasting 5x Bitcoin's capacity...because it's not Bitcoin. But if it boasts 100x Bitcoin's capacity, that's a game-changer. We have to at least get in the ballpark. Watching from the sidelines is not going to cut it, and I refuse to call that in any way conservative, patient, or careful.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
July 30, 2015, 02:48:02 PM
for example; Todd has 0 pts while Gavin has 20 upvotes and MOA is just off in his own thuggish world.  i'd bet Todd has even downvotes for this by now.

I CAN'T!!!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
July 30, 2015, 02:43:19 PM
Quote
To be clear, this is one of 3+ possible proposals in the works among Blockstream developers. There is no "party line" where the company can tell the developers what they should believe.

There is a lot of merit to Pieter's draft BIP. We should openly discuss it in public alongside the other draft BIP's.

Others are in favor of an entirely different approach to increasing the block size that would more in line with actual transaction demand while making no guesses about what things will look like in the future. This proposal is a bit more complex and is currently under development. I'm personally working on getting this stuff written down so it would be easier for everyone to understand, to enable developing this approach with the global developer community.

Some hope the drama can calm down to allow for a return to a constructive, collaborative technical process as is common in Open Source development. The recent environment of incivility and personal attacks has led them to be highly reluctant to agree to any controversial changes while under duress. A meta-solution in favor of bringing professionalism and academic discipline to the questions surrounding Bitcoin Scalability is currently under proposal between developers, academics and commercial stakeholders. Hopefully an announcement about this will be ready by early next week.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3f5yyr/block_size_according_to_technological_growth_by/ctlw6zx

#teamblockstream
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
July 30, 2015, 02:41:59 PM
what, no link?

Click the pic Grandpa.   Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
July 30, 2015, 02:39:28 PM
If you would believe reddit, everyone is running an XT node right about now

http://xtnodes.com/

 Cheesy

1.5 percent.




what, no link?  you have this bad habit of seeing support for your arguments where there is none.  for example; Todd has 0 pts while Gavin has 20 upvotes and MOA is just off in his own thuggish world.  i'd bet Todd has even downvotes for this by now.

plus, we already know the 5 largest miners CAN'T do this attack b/c they happen to be in China and behind the GFC.  whoops; another failed simulation based on incorrect assumptions.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
July 30, 2015, 02:37:33 PM

I score this for Mike.

He's made a strong case for what the original vision was, and maybe from the perspective of "social contract" that should be kept regardless of whether it is viewed as the "best thing" for Bitcoin. Obviously opinions strongly differ on the latter, and maybe that has to do with the context of us now living in a post-Snowden era which didn't exist when that "original vision" was defined. But the argument against the original vision being nodes all in data centers, most people using SPV, etc. is getting very thin.


Hearn has always been quite brilliant about this stuff and much more far sighted than most.  Not only that but he has demonstrated the energy and ability to make his visions come at least close to reality.  (No shit about this, BTW.)

I do hope that people analyze the path forward and make the decision which is best for them about which fork to follow.if they have much choice in the matter.  By now the various visions for the future are much more defined than they were even half a year ago so there is no excuse for people not to put up or shut up.  Fork it soon please!

I will mention again that I am willing to entertain a proof-of-burn to migrate to a solution which holds to and enhances the aspects of Bitcoin which appealed to me when I first got into it.  What would be groovy would be to do it in such a way that the XT folks could re-mine the things.  This would be good to get more people more interested in XT and jump on that bandwagon (and hopefully stop stinking up ours.)



Can you please explain "proof-of burn"?

"remine the things"?
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
July 30, 2015, 02:35:41 PM
If you would believe reddit, everyone is running an XT node right about now

http://xtnodes.com/

 Cheesy

1.5 percent. How do they identify themselves as XT nodes?




Hello? And fuck your quoting habits.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
July 30, 2015, 02:31:28 PM
If you would believe reddit, everyone is running an XT node right about now

http://xtnodes.com/

 Cheesy

1.5 percent.


legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
July 30, 2015, 02:27:19 PM
If you would believe reddit, everyone is running an XT node right about now

http://xtnodes.com/

 Cheesy

1.5 percent. How do they identify themselves as XT nodes?
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