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Topic: Gold: I smell a trap - page 25. (Read 90826 times)

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 23, 2011, 01:32:08 PM
WTI futures are down, but not as sharply as I'd have expected.  Hard to say if that market is immune, or just slow.

Silver is down 25% in 2 days, which is simply insane.  I picked some up towards the beginning of the year, and I figured it was my last chance to get in under $30/oz for a couple of years at least.  I wish this was coming a few months later in the year, I'd love to have all of my 2012 birthday and Christmas shopping done early at these prices.

if you go back to my OP, i'm convinced we had a manipulated push up to unsustainable levels.  you don't get selloffs of this magnitude and intensity unless it was pre-planned.
kjj
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1026
September 23, 2011, 12:56:53 PM
WTI futures are down, but not as sharply as I'd have expected.  Hard to say if that market is immune, or just slow.

Silver is down 25% in 2 days, which is simply insane.  I picked some up towards the beginning of the year, and I figured it was my last chance to get in under $30/oz for a couple of years at least.  I wish this was coming a few months later in the year, I'd love to have all of my 2012 birthday and Christmas shopping done early at these prices.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 23, 2011, 12:28:29 PM
i'm sitting here looking at my trading screens and the entire rest of the stock mkt is barely trading as they watch the destruction of the gold/silver market.  they're trying to decide what this means.  what it means is the DEFLATION i have been warning about this entire thread. 

looks to me like the BOJ has entered the currency mkt and is pushing up the USD.  eventually stocks will resume the next leg down wave 3.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 23, 2011, 12:08:28 PM
my ZSL up 27.23% just today.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 23, 2011, 12:01:42 PM
note this 4y daily USD/JPY chart.  a huge descending wedge which inevitably breaks UP. 


legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 23, 2011, 11:44:25 AM

Obviously, no market can go straight up for a sustained period. As pointed out, the gap below $1,680 needs to be backed and filled. The move wasn't quite vertical, but it was approaching a runaway breakout. It's been consolidating approximately between $1,740 and $1,880 since the August low. A genuine correction should involve the aforementioned gap being filled.


Please excuse my naivety. I'm not much of a trader, more your old fashioned buy and hold fundamentals sort.

Is that what has happened today (i.e. we have filled the gap at 1680), if so then my fairly simplistic view as that I should be bullish again? Or broadly speaking are macroeconomic conditions such that we should expect new lows?


the gap has been backed, filled, and destroyed.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1087
September 23, 2011, 11:23:46 AM

Obviously, no market can go straight up for a sustained period. As pointed out, the gap below $1,680 needs to be backed and filled. The move wasn't quite vertical, but it was approaching a runaway breakout. It's been consolidating approximately between $1,740 and $1,880 since the August low. A genuine correction should involve the aforementioned gap being filled.


Please excuse my naivety. I'm not much of a trader, more your old fashioned buy and hold fundamentals sort.

Is that what has happened today (i.e. we have filled the gap at 1680), if so then my fairly simplistic view as that I should be bullish again? Or broadly speaking are macroeconomic conditions such that we should expect new lows?
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 251
FirstBits: 168Bc
September 23, 2011, 11:17:34 AM

A steep dive, but well within the channel. Next stop $1600.
please explain to me how a logarithmic chart is a fair way to represent the longterm price movement other than for the purpose of suppressing the appearance of a parabolic blowoff?

"Logarithmic" because asset prices are geometric not arithmetic. "logterm", well no, I agree that was short term, but I don't have access to a long term log chart. The $1000 and $700 lines have already been discussed.



I 2006, III 2008, V 2011,2012?
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 23, 2011, 09:13:30 AM
No time to rewrite everything about certain trading techniques. It's simple: beat the grass to startle the snakes.

i'm sorry but its so obvious you are so f*ckin disoriented over the last couple of weeks of losses i can't sit back and let you throw up all this shit.

you put up a stupid video of some day trader that yesterday talks about a 5 min candle trading technique that is DOWN 12% since he put it on yesterday and we're supposed to take what you have to say seriously?  you are seriously reaching, man.

The funny thing is, after "last couple of weeks of losses", gold price is roughly at where it was when this thread started:


no more.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 23, 2011, 08:21:26 AM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/black-friday-arrives-biggest-weekly-move-30-year-bond-black-monday

indeed.  plunging interest rates and falling gold is deflation at its worst.  oil down, Dow down.  all speculative capital will be going into the USD and UST's.

Transports, the Russell, the Financials, everything has broken support from early August.  Wave 3 has arrived.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 23, 2011, 08:09:09 AM


A steep dive, but well within the channel. Next stop $1600.

please explain to me how a logarithmic chart is a fair way to represent the longterm price movement other than for the purpose of suppressing the appearance of a parabolic blowoff?
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 251
FirstBits: 168Bc
September 22, 2011, 11:42:36 PM


A steep dive, but well within the channel. Next stop $1600.
legendary
Activity: 1441
Merit: 1000
Live and enjoy experiments
September 22, 2011, 10:43:31 PM
No time to rewrite everything about certain trading techniques. It's simple: beat the grass to startle the snakes.

i'm sorry but its so obvious you are so f*ckin disoriented over the last couple of weeks of losses i can't sit back and let you throw up all this shit.

you put up a stupid video of some day trader that yesterday talks about a 5 min candle trading technique that is DOWN 12% since he put it on yesterday and we're supposed to take what you have to say seriously?  you are seriously reaching, man.

The funny thing is, after "last couple of weeks of losses", gold price is roughly at where it was when this thread started:

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=%24gold

If someone get disoriented by this child play, it's probably not your game.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 22, 2011, 09:34:09 PM
No time to rewrite everything about certain trading techniques. It's simple: beat the grass to startle the snakes.

i'm sorry but its so obvious you are so f*ckin disoriented over the last couple of weeks of losses i can't sit back and let you throw up all this shit.

you put up a stupid video of some day trader that yesterday talks about a 5 min candle trading technique that is DOWN 12% since he put it on yesterday and we're supposed to take what you have to say seriously?  you are seriously reaching, man.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
September 22, 2011, 08:37:37 PM
No time to rewrite everything about certain trading techniques. It's simple: beat the grass to startle the snakes.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
September 22, 2011, 05:14:43 PM

FTA (emphasis mine):

If that is the physical price then you wouldn't be able to get any at that ridiculously low price. If you could find some gold and silver for that price, it would be a steal.

This is critical - the separation of paper and physical pricing. The official numbers don't include premiums.

Very important is today's drop in silver: this is risking massive global demand for physical metal. The COMEX is already at risk of default in silver next month. Thus the vicious raid in silver and the additional round now, during illiquid market hours. With the price under the 200-dma, big players will notice on the daily/weekly closing. When they buy, they buy for the next several months, so it will be a monstrous influx. The banks are hoping to squeeze enough current players out to prevent default on delivery or encourage cash settlements in lieu of physical delivery before the big players start piling in.

What's most dangerous about this is that if the paper price is pushed too far, the premiums won't follow at all and will even begin to go in the opposite direction because dealers simply can't source physical metal that inexpensively. They won't care if the market says silver is only worth $30 - if they'll only break even at $35, the premiums will rise above $5 to provide a profit. Now imagine the spot paper price at $10/oz in the same situation where a dealer can't remain profitable without charging $35/oz. Premiums will then be at least $25/oz. What is the real value of silver then? Will paper markets matter at all by that point?

In the above scenario, the banks lose all control and credibility. None of the established futures markets will be trusted and private contracts will have to be negotiated on a case-by-case basis among producers and merchants, dramatically slowing business down. Small timers won't even be able to participate without serious connections. Oh, sure there'll still be futures markets, but they'll be more like currency exchanges - trading nothing of real value, only shuffling numbers back and forth that buy fewer real assets by the month/week/day.

That leads to a resurgence of the monetary metals, and offers a potential large-scale proving ground for Bitcoin.

Where is there any information on how many futures contracts end up going to delivery? The majority of institutions that are short with gold futures buy the contracts back so they have no delivery obligations for gold they don't have: That's how the futures manipulation works isn't it?

People buy gold futures (and futures based securities) thinking it's the same as physical gold which is silly. It's hard to find information that shows the extent of phony paper vs real gold, do you have any good sources of information miscreanity?

It's not just futures, it's all kinds of securities that are gold "equivalents" but have only a fraction of gold supporting it.

CME Group daily reports, including deliveries. There are also trends in volume and open interest that can be contrasted with price action to provide direction as to whether buying or selling is occurring. Some of the information can also be calculated by using the disaggregated Commitment of Traders reports in coordination with trends from reported warehouse stocks. Harvey Organ does an excellent job of posting most of the information on a daily basis, although his site and written grammar are horrible.

The information in paper price data is not enough. Physical metal data as found from CME Group and the CFTC provide insight into the inner workings that cannot be gleaned from the price data.

People simply don't realize the difference between paper and physical yet. Banks have been playing on that ignorance and even encouraging it for decades. It's the basis of their power, so as more people realize how the game works, the less power the banks have. It's really just a matter of time; awareness accelerates as it spreads, which culminates in the real parabolic rise. Then the early adopters and quick learners to figure out the next base of power in the new system will take the reigns, but by then we'll all have sexbots and flying cars.

Even Bloomberg is starting to wise up:

Gold-Backed Dollar Puts ‘Fair Value’ at $10,000 an Ounce
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1036
September 22, 2011, 04:52:26 PM
Jan 2, 1980: "There's no limit in sight"
Jan 23, 1980: "It was inevitable"

Gold peaked at over $800 in 1980 dollars, and was down to $250 by 2000.

legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1004
September 22, 2011, 01:55:59 PM
We can get prepared to collect silver and gold coins below 10$ and 1000$ respectively.

If that is the physical price then you wouldn't be able to get any at that ridiculously low price. If you could find some gold and silver for that price, it would be a steal.

Quote
If a little over 5% of those contracts are delivery requests, the COMEX would be wiped out. Normally, plenty of contracts close before then, but with recent action many longs are staying and requesting delivery. It wouldn't be surprising at this point to see 20-30% stand for delivery, which is why reducing the 300k open interest is so critical.

Where is there any information on how many futures contracts end up going to delivery? The majority of institutions that are short with gold futures buy the contracts back so they have no delivery obligations for gold they don't have: That's how the futures manipulation works isn't it?

People buy gold futures (and futures based securities) thinking it's the same as physical gold which is silly. It's hard to find information that shows the extent of phony paper vs real gold, do you have any good sources of information miscreanity?

It's not just futures, it's all kinds of securities that are gold "equivalents" but have only a fraction of gold supporting it.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
September 22, 2011, 01:45:35 PM
Lots of fireworks today. I'm still astounded that the market is running to paper dollars after the fed announces horrible economic news and yet another attempt to re-inflate the bubble but I guess that's how markets are today. I'm considering jumping on some silver buys soon as I'm not quite so bearish on predictions of $10 silver in our imminent future.

if you read my posts, the running is forced.
sr. member
Activity: 258
Merit: 250
September 22, 2011, 01:20:06 PM
Lots of fireworks today. I'm still astounded that the market is running to paper dollars after the fed announces horrible economic news and yet another attempt to re-inflate the bubble but I guess that's how markets are today. I'm considering jumping on some silver buys soon as I'm not quite so bearish on predictions of $10 silver in our imminent future.
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