Topic: Gold, Pot, and Fertilizer, oh my! (Read 2717 times)

damn just reading that now
and pretty much that's how you'd do it legit

If they really wanted to do it, here's how they would have done it:


1.  Premine Uro and make it PoS or very low PoW block reward
2.  Put all premined coins for sale @ ~ urea market rate
3.  Put all proceeds into buy orders @ ~ urea market rate
4.  If any companies want to use it for trade, it's always liquid


        OR, to avoid the devs selling all that premine and holding the money -


1.  Uro arranges the first trade between two companies
2.  Company A puts $100,000 into escrow to be used for Urocoin buy orders @ ~ urea market rate
3.  Uro transfers the corresponding amount of premined Urocoins to Company B
4.  Company B delivers the urea to Company A
5.  Company B has a stack of Urocoins they can spend directly or sell into those buy orders
6.  It's actually backed by that $100,000 buywall and the fact that no more coins are created without more cash
7.  The only reason to invest would be if you think the price of urea is going up


 
Do you notice the difference between that and what actually happened?  There would be no need for speculation, pump-n-dump, bitcointalk hype, or conferences with anybody except buyers and sellers of urea.

If you're not going to fix the price, then you might as well just use Bitcoin.  All they did was create another imitation of Bitcoin, that works exactly like Bitcoin, that can't do anything extra that Bitcoin doesn't already do.

So URO is done. Forever in our hearts as the first and only real FertilizerCoin. Gold backed are always scams (no exceptions). Is there any Pot related coin still alive, worht looking at?

This is why the commodity and money creation need to be linked. We're doing that and backing Xaurum with gold. Also, doing a fixed ratio of commodity vs token doesn't make much sense unless it is for a very specific financial purpose (such as URO was claiming), but if it would be done correctly noone else than the parties involved would buy it, as there would be no extra profit for speculators. On the other hand, when you have an increasing ratio, the true potential of representative money can be seen. It enables profitable inflation, that profits all users, and cooperative mining (where value is not destroyed by competing with other miners, but preserved).

Consider whether implications are subjective, and exist within the reader rather than the writer?
I can not help if you make words mean more than they mean.

Agree with all you have written. It's a shame that the scam was allowed to grow due to the supporters of the scam and the elaborate attempts by Bohan and Nilesh through their so-called event in Hong Kong.

There were so many warnings and substantial evidence that it was a scam but those who supported this coin along with Bohan and Nilesh resorted to aggressive tactics to try and stop those who spoke up about the scam. The aggression and deception by them was further proof that Urocoin was a scam. Shame they didn't think about those people who lost their hard earned money.....greed was the only motive they had from the beginning with little thought about the consequences to others! You can see the mountain of evidence that was provided on this site https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=687231.new#new

@name-above

1. Great user name.
2. Uro was a scam.  It's been dumped. And priced accordingly.
3. The principle idea is possible given the right players.  1 metric Ton?   No.  But maybe start at 1 kilogram and work up as things are double check and verified all the way.

I remember the URO thread and attempting to make a good case regarding being a super scam with 99.99999999% certainity.  
Never under estimate the delusional state of fools hooked on hope.

You did not "guess[] correctly" (NewLiberty), for the post implies that money is an instrument (within the hypothetical, a "[value] pump") of plutocratic government, not "market exchange" (NewLiberty).

It makes little sense to call a currency backed whilst expecting someone else to back it that doesn't.
It's either backed or isn't.

For one of these pot coins, or the urea coin, it would  require it to make the emission rate very small, almost nil and no unbacked pre-mine, otherwise it wouldn't be bootstrappable in the current age.

I think you can substitute "pot coin" or "any coin" for dollar and the same holds true. Just more people are convinced to hold dollars at the end of the line right now than there are "any coin" holders. Coins backed by products can work regardless of the product if everyone agrees on the trade.

I'll speak to this as someone who spent a year in IRC with the developer of Urocoin and one could say "duped" by him, but i'll give it my best to explain the method to the madness.

What Urocoin was meant to do was speed up the process of business transactions. When commodity importers buy Urea or any other commodity, they don't usually just send someone a check for 2 million dollars for a million tons of Urea. Letters of Credit are used and typical a bank in India that represents the Indian government will talk to a bank in China that represents the Urea manufacturers. This letter of credit proves the two parties credit is in good standing and will satisfy the wiring of money between the two entities. This is a long process that can sometimes take months and the industry is rampant with fake letters of credit and fly-by-night commodity dealers who offer to sell you the goods but never deliver.

The idea behind Urocoin was that by "backing" the coins on Urea, you can bypass all this bureaucratic BS and ensure that each coin is redeemable for fertilizer from all the companies that sign to the charter. This would greatly speed up commerce by allowing entities to go on an exchange, purchase Uro like one would do purchasing paper gold on Forex and be able to hold onto it, sell it or swap it for real fertilizer quickly.

This would also allow many farmers and fertilizer companies to bypass middle-men commodity dealers directly. Instead of having to go hunting on Linkedin, Alibaba or wherever for a good rate (yes seriously, million dollar commodity deals are done on Linkedin thru email! Bizarre world), they could go on an exchange, buy Uro and then exchange it for fertilizer from a respectable NIER. Boom, 3-6 months of negotiations and banking red tape avoided.

Another use case for this is by "backing" the coin on Urea, it would act almost as a sort of futures contract so that speculators or farmers who are concerned fertilizer might go up in price next year for example could buy it now at the cheap rate, hold onto it for a year, and when the price of fertilizer goes up, you can exchange it at 1:1 rate hence making a significant profit or acting as insurance for a farmer who was concerned he might not be able to afford it the next growing season.

Finally by backing the coin on Urea, you avoid alot of the extreme volatility of Bitcoin. Yes Urea is volatile too but not as much as Bitcoin and wild price movements generally aren't see day to day like Bitcoin. So it would be a crypto currency that would be very valuable for day to day commerce as well.

Now as to Urocoin being a scam, after a year of knowing Bohan and his quirks and having investigated Green Earth Systems as much as I could, my conclusion about whether it was a scam or not, I do believe the INTENT was there to actually make Uro work. The fact is GES DOES engage in commodity transactions and DOES have access to high net individuals. The CEO did do business in Fiji and met with the President there, they do have offices in Egypt, Hong Kong, Australia, etc., their business partner Vinny Pillay does work at Capricorn investments which is a legit commodities dealer and is verifiable on bloomberg and other websites. Also I can tell you, they DID go to Iran and I can verify the infamous video of the Iranian meeting which everyone was clamoring actually DID exist but for some bizarre reason Bohan would never release it, which I never understood why as it would've increased the credibility of the project. I can also testify Bohan didn't really make any money from the whole thing and actually got into debt with the whole project and he personally paid for supporters plane tickets to go to Hong Kong at Urose. How many scam developers in Bitcoin would do such a thing?

However the "scam" was that while they have connections to make it happen, they didn't have the raw capital I believe to risk giving away a ship filled with 12,500 tons of Urea with a market value of several million dollars to bring the price of Uro up to $300 USD+/-. Hence all the endless arguments for "proof" everyone demanded could never be given as they couldn't afford to get the initial "backing" off the ground. I believe the hope was thru Urose and the opening of the Uroex exchange they could find other ways to bring the price up, the vibe I got from Bohan is they were hoping to find some high roller investors willing to pump the price and once the price is settled then they could start actually trading fertilizer for real. However while some rich individuals DID go to Urose, for whatever reason the deals fell through. It's the classic "need money to make money" problem.

The tragedy of Uro is that it was actually a pretty good idea and if put into practice could've revolutionized the business world. The sad part is it was killed by a combination of GES's greed and shady tactics, but also a mix of venomous vile from the crypto community which is made up of kids and idiots who usually have never interacted in the real world of 2nd and 3rd world business practices which may seem foreign or outright scammy to them but is actually done everyday with billions of dollars changing hands. Yes people there ARE multi-million dollar companies out there that don't even have a website, get over it. The FUD last summer that killed the pump was some of the most bizarre shit i've ever read, accusations of photoshopped people, companies and people that didn't exist, this was all nonsense. So while I still hold Bohan responsible for his behavior I also think the community could have been more fair about analyzing the whole thing as well. Afterall, if URO had made some people millionaires overnight, would you bitch whether some questionable tactics were used to get it off the ground? Afterall no one gives a damn 30 years later that Microsoft practically lied to IBM before acquiring DOS or that Steve Jobs stole money from Woz behind his back at Atari. Unfortunately this is the real world and to get ahead sometimes people do dirty things.  Hell look at Dashcoin and the instamine controversy, frankly alot of people just don't give a shit.

And call me crazy, while I sold most of the coins off, I still hold some Urocoin "just in case" as it is a rather cheap lottery ticket right now with the price so much in the dumps. I wouldn't be shocked if GES is quietly accumulating the bulk of their coins back to one day pump it themselves if they can secure that one big investor. Is that shady? Probably, but again if they do make it happen i'm not going to complain.

Backing coin is a way for the dev to dump the coins or sell their coins at a higher price.
It did attract many buyers when the coin was 'backed' but nowadays people have seen through the scam and stopped buying them.

You could have simply said that I had guessed correctly.


For anyone else that might be reading this thread, if you always value things based upon what they cost you, rather than what you may gain by parting with them, you will restrict your opportunities.

It isn't really feasible. People are just trying to capture a niche and do something similar to the old gold standard in order to give their coin some real world wealth. Most of these coins will just be scams or at best wont work very well.

For (ir-)reason of "the unacknowledged fear of death and punishment" (Konstan).

So...nobody has any clue then? lolz.

Ok, let me try again. I mean look, it takes a lot of money to grow pot, in fact. Theoretically, yes, you get a seed free in your bag, you stick it in the ground and up it grows. But in reality, all the pot farms supplying dispensaries with high quality herb spend a lot of money on electricity, fertilizer, and clones (it's very uneconomical to grow from seeds).

But if this is in doubt, let's use gold. That costs a ton of money to produce or invest in.

The coin miner spends only a few dollars in electricity.

This doesn't matter, because the guy trading gold for the coin can't get that electricity. The coin has no real value. The guy with the gold GAVE it value, by agreeing to hand over X amount of gold for a coin.

My question is, WHY would anyone do this? What is the perceived advantage? What are they trying to accomplish, that could possibly make it worth giving away a bunch of their hard earned gold in return for an easily earned string of code, whose value is, after all, defined only by how much of my gold I decided to hand out for it in the first place?

nailed it.

debate-able terms

"decentralization"  sort of but you can create a "distributed" network of contracted backers ... think trade union or association.

(Your [assorted] hypotheticals are not that singular hypothetical posed in the OP, and is, both therefore and because the matter is, theretofore, unresolved, off-topic.)