Can we get a list of peer IP's that are known to be on the right time?
You can set your computer to the right time, but it doesn't mean your peers are when you try and send them a newly mined
block, so you may still get an orphan even though you are on the correct time, just because your peers are not.
Topic: GoldCoin™ (GLC) Thread - The Gold Standard of Digital Currency [OFFICIAL THREAD] - page 73. (Read 310011 times)
November 25, 2013, 08:05:48 PM
November 25, 2013, 08:02:54 PM
I've been looking at my debug.log and see lots of this:
ERROR: CheckBlock() : block timestamp too far in the future
ERROR: ProcessBlock() : CheckBlock FAILED
GetNetworkHashPS(120)
GetTrueNetworkHashPS(120) - modified lookup
best index = 114672
difficulty = 0.435018
hashrate for section: 14.901249 MH/s, time diff = 1385421655 min
====difficulty change at block 114660
height = 114659, difficulty = 0.445892
hashrate for section: 15.959102 MH/s, time diff = 1385414455 min
====difficulty change at block 114600
height = 114599, difficulty = 0.457037
returning hashrate 241.250000 MH/s, lookup 15 (time difference = -0.0)
Ok so server time must be out of sync right? Well:
ntpdate pool.ntp.org
26 Nov 10:30:55 ntpdate[8366]: adjust time server 192.189.54.33 offset -0.102237 sec
0.1 seconds out of sync... umm does this time stuff cater for timezone?
ERROR: CheckBlock() : block timestamp too far in the future
ERROR: ProcessBlock() : CheckBlock FAILED
GetNetworkHashPS(120)
GetTrueNetworkHashPS(120) - modified lookup
best index = 114672
difficulty = 0.435018
hashrate for section: 14.901249 MH/s, time diff = 1385421655 min
====difficulty change at block 114660
height = 114659, difficulty = 0.445892
hashrate for section: 15.959102 MH/s, time diff = 1385414455 min
====difficulty change at block 114600
height = 114599, difficulty = 0.457037
returning hashrate 241.250000 MH/s, lookup 15 (time difference = -0.0)
Ok so server time must be out of sync right? Well:
ntpdate pool.ntp.org
26 Nov 10:30:55 ntpdate[8366]: adjust time server 192.189.54.33 offset -0.102237 sec
0.1 seconds out of sync... umm does this time stuff cater for timezone?
November 25, 2013, 07:53:19 PM
That's the whole reason we have the difficulty switch based on the median time between blocks,
They'll need to add hashpower for a very long time before they can cause any real damage, and even then our difficulty adjustment is every 2 hours +- 41%. It'll drop back down in little time.
but then why it happened yesterday`s night? all pools were like 4-6 Mhash each and network shows not more then 10mhash...
now it`s about 20-30 mhash each pool.
I think in that moment it was enough to add ~20mhash to total network hashpower to disbalance whole network?
November 25, 2013, 07:43:13 PM
My pools now up to ~16mh/s of users ONLY mining GLD and every single block is orphaned. They've been consistently mining for a day, what are you meant to do to mine this coin? 51% attack prevention, sure, because no one can mine it!
My guess is your not running 0.7.1.5,
Bitcoin allows timestamps +- 2 hours from the current network time
GoldCoin allows timestamps +- 45 seconds from the current network time
Since the 51% defence relies on timestamps to determine if the blockchain is growing too quickly, there is an advantage to be had by setting your block's timestamp to the next timestamp that doesn't trigger the defense(instead of the current time) and then transmitting that block exactly at 45 seconds before the time its timestamp indicates.
0.7.1.5 has this feature partly built-in, but there is a cost. Due to the single threaded nature of the Bitcoin codebase we use, and the fact that almost all functions are boolean inputs for other functions, the wait on the processblock function actually lags the program for up to 45 seconds whenever a block is found(If that block is a block that doesn't trigger the 51% defense).
Because of this, your miner needs to be configured to wait for a response from the daemon for up to ~50 seconds before assuming that the daemon is down or that the block is a reject.
We're sorry that it has to be like this, but until we rewrite the entire codebase from scratch (something I plan on doing next month). It cannot be avoided.
November 25, 2013, 07:25:09 PM
0.7.1.5 solo - can`t find more then couple blocks in 3-4 hours with 2 Mhash.
but it`s not the point of what I told.
because of nature of money (exchange rate rises when there are not enough offers) - attacker could create situation like current and with only adding hashpower required to system to orphan 70% of blocks.
price will grow, and other miners will switch to mine - adding more and more hashrate, (because everybody want to mine most profitable currency) - it`s not only about protecting from 51% attack. System should also allow defence from this possible abuse.
but it`s not the point of what I told.
because of nature of money (exchange rate rises when there are not enough offers) - attacker could create situation like current and with only adding hashpower required to system to orphan 70% of blocks.
price will grow, and other miners will switch to mine - adding more and more hashrate, (because everybody want to mine most profitable currency) - it`s not only about protecting from 51% attack. System should also allow defence from this possible abuse.
That's the whole reason we have the difficulty switch based on the median time between blocks,
They'll need to add hashpower for a very long time before they can cause any real damage, and even then our difficulty adjustment is every 2 hours +- 41%. It'll drop back down in little time.
November 25, 2013, 07:17:35 PM
0.7.1.5 solo - can`t find more then couple blocks in 3-4 hours with 2 Mhash.
but it`s not the point of what I told.
because of nature of money (exchange rate rises when there are not enough offers) - attacker could create situation like current and with only adding hashpower required to system to orphan 70% of blocks.
price will grow, and other miners will switch to mine - adding more and more hashrate, (because everybody want to mine most profitable currency) - it`s not only about protecting from 51% attack. System should also allow defence from this possible abuse.
but it`s not the point of what I told.
because of nature of money (exchange rate rises when there are not enough offers) - attacker could create situation like current and with only adding hashpower required to system to orphan 70% of blocks.
price will grow, and other miners will switch to mine - adding more and more hashrate, (because everybody want to mine most profitable currency) - it`s not only about protecting from 51% attack. System should also allow defence from this possible abuse.
November 25, 2013, 07:16:26 PM
Plenty of other coins to mine.
November 25, 2013, 07:13:15 PM
My guess is your not running 0.7.1.5
I'm running 0.7.1.5 and have been since I started posting here yesterday.
November 25, 2013, 07:09:43 PM
Seems like the DoS prevention code in GLD prevents people from hopping on when it comes to the top of the profit list.
The defense protects the network by preventing hashpower from being added to quickly.
It basically gives more power to the little guy by removing the advantage of someone using an industrial strength mining rig jumping on the network for some quick and easy coins. Mining goldcoin is no longer an exercise is raw hashing power.
Akumaburn wrote about this is detail yesterday: https://www.gldtalk.org/index.php?topic=1262.msg6081#msg6081
It`s good on paper, in a system with no price, but the higher price is, higher hashrates will system get - and as it can`t adapt fast - it`s not possible to mine, price go higher and higher - loop.
does it really gives advantage to solo miners with small rigs - no. I was mining 5 blocks an hour - now i`m mining 1 block in 3 hours.
in that case (how this protection currently works) it even sounds that it even easier to attack whole system:
imagine.
1. price is stable for a long period of time.
2. attacker slowly buys coins
3. attacker accumulated desired number of coins
4. attack (just put 2-3 rigs to mine or even buy hashrate contract)
5. "51%" protection in work.... - orphans all over
6. price goes up
7. more people mine cause price go up - chain reaction (like now)
8. attacker waits for decent price - sells coins
9. coin price crash
- miners lost profits, time and electricity (
- only attacker satisfied.
does it sound like current situation?
Nope what happened only happened because the pools had not updated to the latest client/panicked and shut down,
I went through the last ~300 blocks, there was no evidence to indicate a double spend or any kind of abuse.
There are only two ways to attack the coin as is and they both involve a lot of work:
1: Kick majority of existing hashpower off the network(Take the pools down), and replace said hashpower to become the majority of the network. Since you are replacing existing hashpower, the difficulty will be such that you have a higher probability of getting 6 blocks in a row.
2: Hold 80-90% of the total network hashpower long enough to cause several difficulty changes and increase your likelyhood of getting 6 blocks in a row.
Please be sure you are mining on 0.7.1.5 though, as 0.7.1.4 doesn't help the network be more secure.
November 25, 2013, 07:03:49 PM
My pools now up to ~16mh/s of users ONLY mining GLD and every single block is orphaned. They've been consistently mining for a day, what are you meant to do to mine this coin? 51% attack prevention, sure, because no one can mine it!
My guess is your not running 0.7.1.5,
Bitcoin allows timestamps +- 2 hours from the current network time
GoldCoin allows timestamps +- 45 seconds from the current network time
Since the 51% defence relies on timestamps to determine if the blockchain is growing too quickly, there is an advantage to be had by setting your block's timestamp to the next timestamp that doesn't trigger the defense(instead of the current time) and then transmitting that block exactly at 45 seconds before the time its timestamp indicates.
0.7.1.5 has this feature partly built-in, but there is a cost. Due to the single threaded nature of the Bitcoin codebase we use, and the fact that almost all functions are boolean inputs for other functions, the wait on the processblock function actually lags the program for up to 45 seconds whenever a block is found(If that block is a block that doesn't trigger the 51% defense).
Because of this, your miner needs to be configured to wait for a response from the daemon for up to ~50 seconds before assuming that the daemon is down or that the block is a reject.
We're sorry that it has to be like this, but until we rewrite the entire codebase from scratch (something I plan on doing next month). It cannot be avoided.
November 25, 2013, 07:02:15 PM
Seems like the DoS prevention code in GLD prevents people from hopping on when it comes to the top of the profit list.
The defense protects the network by preventing hashpower from being added to quickly.
It basically gives more power to the little guy by removing the advantage of someone using an industrial strength mining rig jumping on the network for some quick and easy coins. Mining goldcoin is no longer an exercise is raw hashing power.
Akumaburn wrote about this is detail yesterday: https://www.gldtalk.org/index.php?topic=1262.msg6081#msg6081
It`s good on paper, in a system with no price, but the higher price is, higher hashrates will system get - and as it can`t adapt fast - it`s not possible to mine, price go higher and higher - loop.
does it really gives advantage to solo miners with small rigs - no. I was mining 5 blocks an hour - now i`m mining 1 block in 3 hours.
in that case (how this protection currently works) it even sounds that it even easier to attack whole system:
imagine.
1. price is stable for a long period of time.
2. attacker slowly buys coins
3. attacker accumulated desired number of coins
4. attack (just put 2-3 rigs to mine or even buy hashrate contract)
5. "51%" protection in work.... - orphans all over
6. price goes up
7. more people mine cause price go up - chain reaction (like now)
8. attacker waits for decent price - sells coins
9. coin price crash
- miners lost profits, time and electricity (
- only attacker satisfied.
does it sound like current situation?
November 25, 2013, 06:59:38 PM
Seems like the DoS prevention code in GLD prevents people from hopping on when it comes to the top of the profit list.
The defense protects the network by preventing hashpower from being added to quickly.
It basically gives more power to the little guy by removing the advantage of someone using an industrial strength mining rig jumping on the network for some quick and easy coins. Mining goldcoin is no longer an exercise in raw hashing power.
Akumaburn wrote about this is detail yesterday: https://www.gldtalk.org/index.php?topic=1262.msg6081#msg6081
It is not working, I do believe you broke it. I mine Gold coin from time to time but cannot even find a block that does not orphan at this point, even though I found several today. This might protect it from the multi-pool but it also stops the people who are serious about it. Major problem in my opinion.
It also seems to support single-pool mining aka 100% attack. Bringing online 5.1% to support? Screwed. Bringing on 51% to attack? Harder. Joining the existing 99%? Win.
November 25, 2013, 06:56:16 PM
Seems like the DoS prevention code in GLD prevents people from hopping on when it comes to the top of the profit list.
The defense protects the network by preventing hashpower from being added to quickly.
It basically gives more power to the little guy by removing the advantage of someone using an industrial strength mining rig jumping on the network for some quick and easy coins. Mining goldcoin is no longer an exercise in raw hashing power.
Akumaburn wrote about this is detail yesterday: https://www.gldtalk.org/index.php?topic=1262.msg6081#msg6081
It is not working, I do believe you broke it. I mine Gold coin from time to time but cannot even find a block that does not orphan at this point, even though I found several today. This might protect it from the multi-pool but it also stops the people who are serious about it. Major problem in my opinion.
November 25, 2013, 06:48:05 PM
My pools now up to ~16mh/s of users ONLY mining GLD and every single block is orphaned. They've been consistently mining for a day, what are you meant to do to mine this coin? 51% attack prevention, sure, because no one can mine it!
November 25, 2013, 06:12:28 PM
I started to get worried when transfers were taking a long time to even show up on the other side. So far its ok. my pool is a little overwhelmed but working ok.
November 25, 2013, 06:06:33 PM
Seems like the DoS prevention code in GLD prevents people from hopping on when it comes to the top of the profit list.
The defense protects the network by preventing hashpower from being added to quickly.
It basically gives more power to the little guy by removing the advantage of someone using an industrial strength mining rig jumping on the network for some quick and easy coins. Mining goldcoin is no longer an exercise in raw hashing power.
Akumaburn wrote about this is detail yesterday: https://www.gldtalk.org/index.php?topic=1262.msg6081#msg6081
November 25, 2013, 05:44:10 PM
So lets figure out what is happening with that coin?
1a. mining in any pool currently will give you only orphans,
1b. mining solo - orphans too
2. no way to decently mine
3. price goes up as usual on market
4. everyone strating mine this coin
5. more protection mechanisms and more orphans again
6. probably price goes up
7. probably more people to mine
(repeat 5-7)
.... and so on until price crash
few people mine again?
it`s kind of not effective protection measure on a market for miners, it`s kind of profitable only for market speculators only, as they can get super profits in this period but not honest miners?
1a. mining in any pool currently will give you only orphans,
1b. mining solo - orphans too
2. no way to decently mine
3. price goes up as usual on market
4. everyone strating mine this coin
5. more protection mechanisms and more orphans again
6. probably price goes up
7. probably more people to mine
(repeat 5-7)
.... and so on until price crash
few people mine again?
it`s kind of not effective protection measure on a market for miners, it`s kind of profitable only for market speculators only, as they can get super profits in this period but not honest miners?
November 25, 2013, 05:28:18 PM
Seems like the DoS prevention code in GLD prevents people from hopping on when it comes to the top of the profit list.
November 25, 2013, 04:53:44 PM
Its behavior is sure making me nervous.
November 25, 2013, 11:58:03 AM
Are there still big issues that make impossible to mine this cryptocurrency in decent conditions?
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