Topic: Goldman Sachs Involved in project Ethereum... ARE YOU F... KIDDING ME - page 2. (Read 21631 times)

means ? that 2 guys are former workers for gs ?

i mean why blame good guys for worken in the past for gs ?
another question that i have is why did they post off the start?
did anyone give an explanation ?

After Charles' statement I no longer think that Ethereum is connected to Goldman Sachs. So this post is a criticism of solely GS:

As for what is this "conspiracy bugaboo", don't listen to me, read these articles. It's no conspiracy theory anymore but conspiracy reality:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/greek-debt-crisis-how-goldman-sachs-helped-greece-to-mask-its-true-debt-a-676634.html
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/economy/2010-02-25-bernanke-fed-greece_N.htm

The current list of devs is on the Ethereum website, you can contact them (or look them up) to see if they work at GS.  What's with all the conspiratorial bugaboo?

Good quote.  Very surprised that the FUD on this thread, GS has nothing to do with Ethereum.  What evidence does the OP have to suggest otherwise?

edited:

Fact: Debt Based Fiat at usury rates of interest into perpetuity is what got us all into this mess. Not democrats, Not Republicans, etc.

Fact: There is no difference between Tax & Spend Democrats and Borrow & Spend Republicans for the last 3+ decades. Their both owned and  controlled by the wealthy elite. The top 0.1%

Fact: This isn't about politics, or ideologies. This is about a sustainable, long term monetary solution(s). In other words Debt FREE currencies that are NOT OWNED, nor CONTROLLED, by ANY BANKSTER (Central Bank), nor any Government. But instead their fully DECENTRALIZED from being Controlled and manipulated after their issue, and forever always on their Debt Free currencies, unlike the tragic mess that is fiat today. That of course is why Crypto-Currencies are so revolutionary.


Fact: This is about checkmating out of control greed and fraud. Out of control Powers, and Dominance.
         Satoshi Nakamoto gave this gift to everyone. To the future. Satoshi EARNED every last 'satoshi' of his.


Fact: All but a tiny few of the World's nations are completely insolvent. Just like the Worlds Banking and Financial Sectors. We're all much worse than merely bankrupt, we're all hopelessly insolvent, and have been that way since September 2008, and really long before that.

Fact: There is no way out of this mess except to take 2007 dollars and devalue them down to about 0.12cents each, same or much worse for all the other nations fiat currencies, less at most a few small nations, and even they will find themselves ruptured as things unwind. And that was as of 2007, today things are far worse than that model just laid to bare (0.12 cents on the usd).

Fact: Either they keep QE to infinity, or we all suffer through severe Deflation with Systemic Debt (Bond) Defaults, and other systemic, cascading debt defaults. The least painful way is to inflate, or that's the least painful way for governments and banks to go.

Fact: All their doing is pretending and extending. (kicking the can just a little bit more forward, delaying the point of failure) with endless QT, unless they get  very serious with inflating away (devaluing currencies), all so the debts versus the vastly increased money supply can again be in harmony for a little while, but only if that new money works it's way through the system, and so far it's not doing that. And all the while, the debts grow ever larger, and the problems grow ever greater, and the end results will end up ever more painful for all of us as a result.

 It's truly insanity to think we can borrow our way out of this mess. And that is the insanity of these Central Banks and their client nation states. Sanity must be found. Satoshi forces that sanity to come about through debt free, decentralized, secure, crypto-currencies.

Fact: But even then we're all still trapped in the Central Banksters grasp, (The FED's, and the Bank of England, Bank of Japan, etc...),  because they will forever keep loaning our debt based fiat into existence at usury rates of interest, and their by trap everyone into debt bondage from cradle to grave.


 This isn't about liberals or conservatives. This is about IDIOTS. fools. dimwits. Dupes. Suckers. ALL OF US. We have been played for all that and more. We didn't know these facts before. But we do now, and those facts are still spreading today across the spectrum.

 Governments haven't been in control. It's the CENTRAL Banks and their Shareholders, along with the other top 0.1% of the population that are in complete command and control, and dominate our world. And that have been in full command and control, and in dominance of every nation. Sure there are exceptions, such as Communist Red China. A defacto State-Fascist Dictatorship, but labeled as communist. Or at least that's my personal take on that. Sure there are other exceptions. The five 'axis of evil nations' that all have/had their own debt free state currencies, and well that's another thing the Banksters can't let that dare stand for fear it may spread! Much like Nazi Germany issued (devt free currency) and then of course have Jewry declare all out war on Germany for that, and more, (such as kicking them out of power and control in Germany). Those that had been in control of Germany ruined that country, indeed the world, and driving it into a horrible financial depression. Not to mention the WW1 reparations that bled Germany terribly. History is again very much doing the same thing all over again today, all across this world. And with those in full command and dominance in absolute denial, while spinning the facts and stating lie after lie. IE: The vast majority of 'socialism' has been socializing the wealthy elites losses, and tossing it on the backs of other tax payers. But then that's not socialism at all. But they always contort and twist things, and of course misdirect. Their experts at deceit, and it clearly shows.

 DEBT BASED FIAT is THE Problem. Period. As soon as the first loan is made suddenly there is more debt than currency due to the interest. It's a giant fraud, scam, scheme, PONZI, on the entire population, by the Banksters. And with the complicity of Governments who are at the Banksters beck and call. Not the other way around.

 Recall the comment congress man that stated  "frankly they own this place", meaning the Bankers own Congress. That was on Capital Hill during the September/October 2008 Crisis. He, like other congress people was just taking his marching orders, like all the rest of them, while putting up the good fight, for good public  theater. They all lie and misrepresent themselves just to win and get elected. All of them. That's how the political game is played. From 'read my lips', to all the other nonsense such as 'the first thing I am going to do is bring the troops home'. Get over it. They all lie to get elected. They all misrepresent who they really are, and what their really for. Black truly is white, and white truly is black. Just flip what they say, then you more than likely know who they are, and what their really for.

 Their entire monetary foundation is a giant fraud, the most evil scheme ever cast onto this world. We can't let it stand any longer. Otherwise they will force ever worse forms of Fascism, Tyranny, and God only knows what else besides ever worse taxation and debt bondage, on all of us. Their already scared, frightened. It shows. They know they lost control of things. They know they have been stealing assets like theirs no tomorrow for decades. They know wall street scammed everyone in the world forever, they were in on it themselves, just like every major stock market did, and every bond market, and major banks all across the world. It's all corrupt to the core, just like their client nation states. The financial sector really does need strong, prudent regulations, just like any casino does. Their not that different in the scheme of things. We can't trust anyone when it comes to MONEY. That much is glaringly obvious to all but mere fools.

 Our only hope is to DECENTRALIZE our currencies. And until then we're all merely the Banksters Slaves.


On to Goldman Sachs:


1. Goldman was an INVESTMENT BANK, not a Commercial Bank. Until they busted out due to 3rd counter party risk (AIG). They didn't qualify
    for any bailouts either. But of course unlike Bear Sterns and Lieman dear ole Goldman Sachs got to change their charter to a Commercial
    bank, and there by qualified for bailouts, backstops, and more.

2. Suddenly Goldman is allowed to become a Commercial Bank during the Oct. 2008 Crisis. So now they too qualify to be bailed out, and of course they and their other Bankster pals at other banks, and on wall street made certain AIG is bailed out simply because they all scammed AIG into insolvency, to the tune of over 100 Billion dollars. So suddenly all the biggest LOSERS are turned into winners. That's not capitalism. That's not a Republic. That's not a Democracy. That's Corporate Fascism. Or merely Socialism for the Ruling Classes and no one else. Either way it's dead wrong.

 WE NEVER REWARD FAILURE in the past. Not until 2008.

 That's Corporate Fascism (where the most wealthy Corporations control Government, the State, and it's Peoples. Their suddenly re-writing the rules when they lose so instead they end up winning, and writing the new laws stuffed down congresses and the white houses throats all the while, through any and every means, including coercion, blackmail, threat of prison, whatever it takes. Think bugs, spying, tapping, ect.).


 Lastly, as for the Goldman Sachs EX EMPLOYEES. It's sad, many wont ever trust them because their tainted from being ex employees of Goldman Sachs. Sure, some of them are likely good, decent people. And sooner or later they realized that they were in a rotten to the core industry, and left. Okay. But how can those like myself ever deduce who is who from those tainted ex employees? We can't. Much like ex-felons, their tainted. Of course some of us can size others up after being on this earth for over 5 decades, but that's of little use to others.

 Sure, anyone can create and promote a Crypto-Currency. Even I can today, very easy now. But it wouldn't likely be a success. Nor will anything with any ex Goldman Sachs name on it. Or JP Morgan Chase, Or Bank of America, ect. They best just not brag about where they came from if they came from there, that is if they want to have any shot of getting many to give their Crypto a real chance. it was arrogantly stupid to even mention such a thing in light of why this revolution got started. Yet here JP Morgan Chase is also suddenly announcing their game for this too. It's laughable how this is going now but that's fine. As long as their DEBT FREE, Decentralized currencies I suppose they have a chance too. But it would be far better for any future debt free Official national 'legal tender' to be publicly issued and created by the governments themselves, in competition with the free marketplace. It's just much more ethical, and would hopefully be just that. Then again...maybe not. Competition is a great thing. Just don't think tyrants such as J. Paul Getty ever believed that! They didn't. Not in the 1st Gilded Age, and certainly not in this 2nd Gilded Age of fraud & greed among the ruling elite.

 The ex employees of Goldman were merely the hired help, much like anyone. But rewarding their tragic failure with bonuses after the disaster they caused is unthinkable. We Never Reward Failure. Unless of course we're buying someone, to keep them in line, playing ball, toeing the offical company line. The 'best and brightest'? Not hardly. Not even remotely. Not even in the ball park. Same for their chief executives and the board members. They again blew up the entire international financial system. They have done it over and over for centuries. Because they are anything but the best and brightest.

Okay, so now on to the macro facts.


1. Governments are not really in control of their currencies. It's the Central Banks. Some are Private Central banks (The FED), and some so called 'Pubic' Central  banks. The US Dollar is not the USA's dollar at all. Look at a dollar bill, any size bill. Read it.  It says "Federal Reserve Note" right on the bill. The FED owns them. Every dollar is LOANED to the USA's government, loaned into it's very existence. Even worse the member banks themselves when they loan out money for a new mortgages, or any other loans, those funds are quite often just created out of thin air, just like the FED does it. They never existed before those loans were even made. Nice gig for them! It's truly the most flawed system imaginable, when closely examined.

 Yet the billionare parasital maggots and the Alan Greenspans all share a trait. So called Libertarians they all are. And they lust for their man Ron Paul to convince others that Deregulation of everything, even the financial sector, and Privatization of even our water, clean or otherwise, fully unregulated is just dandy. Those are the two largest flaws of Austrian economic nonsense. Sure, much of the rest is correct. So is much of the Chicago School of economics, minus it's tragic flaws. Just don't go seeking any orthodox economist to admit such things in public, or even in private. Society is getting played, terribly, for fools, and worse.

2. Yes, the USA government has sway, but fact is the FED is a PRIVATE Corporation, owned fully by it's member banks, chiefly the largest  ones. That all occurred 100 years ago, in 1913, when the FED was allowed to be our 3rd National (Central Bank), after decades of not having one due to them truly being 'a den of vipers and thieves' per President Andrew Jackson in the early 1800's. And these cunning,  diabolical, evil, crooks even came up with a wonderful name for their long con. (The FED) IE: The Federal Reserve. Which has nothing at all to do  with the Federal government at all. No more than does the Federal Express shipping company. But it sure fooled the population for almost a  century whom thought the FED was and is an 'independent agency of our government. NOT!

 To this day those at CNBC and other mainstream news outlets still peddle the lie that their an independent agency of the USA's  government. NOT TRUE. It's the OWNERS of the Central Banks that are our Masters. Masters of our World. And it's the FDIC Member Banks that Own the FED. Precisely their shareholders. And the largest shareholders hold the cards. All of them. A Royal Flush.

3. The NY FED is the DOMINATE Fed Branch, in full command and  control. With those such as "Turbo Tax" Tim Geither having served there
   prior to his next gig at the US Treasury of all places.

4. Of course it's peddled out there that the FED is 'an independent branch of the USA Government'. It's not. Even Federal judges ruled as much. Yet those even with degrees in economics even believe otherwise because that is what they were told. That's how corrupt this truly is. Lie after lie has been perpetrated, decade after decade. And until the internet came it was far easier to contain the facts from the public. Not so anymore. And exactly why the powers at large want to throttle and control the internet. Of course they wont get the chance. At least not for very long. That too will soon be Decentralized, if some of us have anything to do with the course the future goes. All to defuse the ruling elites power and control over the rest of us.

 As for ex employees of Goldman Sachs, I wont ever trust anyone from there, or from wall street, or from any bank, insurance company, or financial institution. I simply know better. Too many are too darn good at fooling even the best readers of people. Over 5 decades I have learned never to trust any of them, especially any of them when it comes to money, the hard way, by personal experience. It's their job to make money from our money. We simply can't trust those den of vipers and thieves on wall street, such as Goldman Sachs, anymore than we can trust our commercial banksters and their Central Bank, the FED. Their financial parasites, and after being deregulated they stole, swindled, and scammed again without restraint, just like in the roaring 1920's. That's how we got here today. History indeed rhymes again.

 For well over a decade now dozens of senior ex Goldman Sach executives entered our governments highest chambers, and most recently as many as 21 ex Goldman execs ave been controlling and handling our Executive branch of government. It's not pretty. It's truly a form of Neo-Corporate Fascism today. Them together with their allies in congress are very much in command and control of the USA's Government. And no one dares cross them, or alas, the NSA working with the FBI will be there to drag them off too, if all else fails, to keep them in line. We suffer from exactly the opposite kind of dictatorship compared to State Fascism in Red China where it's government calls the shots for larger business and industries, and all the way up to their entire banking system and central bank.

 Sure, let them come out with their own DECENTRALIZED Currencies (These ex employees and hedge fund players) But odds are their beating on dead horses. Already Bitcoin is trillions of miles ahead of the rest, and there wont be many dozens of winners, especially not major winners. After all merchants and business will not want to deal with dozens, or even many of alternative currencies, the costs alone would drive them away from accepting them directly, and any third party exchange fees would just drive the costs right back up even to the point of maybe not offering any greater value than the old ways.

 Just be certain their all DEBT FREE, secure, Crypto-Currencies. And fully decentralized and free from any and all manipulations, and if not expect them to be DOA. Same for Governments. I dare them to. Double dare them all to try. I hope they will. I want to see them all utterly fail, and learn to lose like men, instead of grovel and retroactively change the rules and be the cowards they all truly are.

 But if they don't go to task at least these Open Source Crypto-Currencies such as Bitcoin will offer people everywhere an escape from the ever inflated away (devalued) traditional fiat currencies. And after all, those traditional fiat currencies  are not backed by anything but lies, fraud, deceit, and broken promises. Plus soon zillions in unpayable debts.

 Decentralized currencies will force monetary and fiscal prudence should the powers at large not care to take a hint and jump in this revolution with their very own Decentralized Currencies.

 This is a DECENTRALIZED Revolution. Not just for Crypto-Currencies. But for many things. It's all coming fast too. And it's unstoppable. No one can stop this. NO ONE. It's the Decentralization of the currencies and how their to be always issued DEBT FREE that marks this wonderful solution, and makes it so dynamically positive, and truly wonderful. Not to mention by magnitudes more efficient, and prosperous, for every person on earth, except those trapped behind iron curtains, and a very few ruling, wealthy elite.

 Satoshi is genus. And more. This is bigger than modern electricity in what it will do for mankind over the next centuries directly ahead. This will end up being way bigger than the entire Industrial Revolution, let alone the Internet. It's that revolutionary, that huge, that much better.

 This frees the world from the clutches of it's financial masters whom truly are the worlds secret rulers. We're no longer Debt Slaves after we finally break at least mostly free of DEBT Based Fiat currencies. No more usury rates of interest into perpetuity (forever and ever). Instead we save that and much, much more. AND with MUCH greater efficiencies (much lower transaction costs, for every transaction), and much less middlemen (Banksters, etc) shaving and skinning us relentlessly on that, and much more! All of that and much more will be the end result.

 The Banksters will finally be held in check. With or without strong financial regulations, they still wont ever be able to again dominate and control the entire world like they have for centuries on end.

 The only one's this checkmates is the wealthiest ruling elite Banksters, and their shills, and financial whores. Plus some of the other 0.1% that can't stand real capitalism (at least half fair playing fields, and true competition). Bbut instead demand to be financial parasites, and worse.

 Greed got out of control these last few decades. So has fraud. This is the 2nd Gilded Age of Fraud & Greed, in it's last days.

 The world again forgot the lessons of history, and what lead to the 1st 'Great Depression'.

 All those mistakes were again repeated, and ended up with the exact same results. And forever those in power and control spin the facts, promote lie after lie, and cast out denial after denial when faced with the real facts.


History does indeed rhyme. - Mark Twain


 And finally, all thanks to Satoshi, we all have THE SOLUTIONS. Hurray for Bitcoin! Long live the new king.



Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware

I've added the "since officially denied" remark to my previous post. We should give the Ethereum team credit for coming clear on this.

@Ursium: many of us understood Charles' statement in the introductory video( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5FDvzj8YX4 ) from 8:08-8:12 as if he were saying "work". The turned-on captions(cc button) under this Youtube video confirmed our assertion. This GS question hadn't just pop up from nowhere, his statement was interpreted this way. Anyway I'll take Charles's word for it....

We should all boycott this coin when it came out. 

Regarding this thread, from Charles Hoskinson:

"We have two people on our team who started their financial careers- as many thousands have done- at Goldman Sachs. They have both since left and started other ventures. In both cases those were hedge funds. Joe retired and moved to Jamaica to be in the music industry and came out of retirement to join us. Costa went to university of Edinburgh to study LCS's relationship to finance for a PhD in Quantitative Finance. He is now running a hedge fund in Kyrgyzstan as well as building a full clearing house in etherscript.

We have no relationship with Goldman Sachs nor are they an investor. I wouldn't take their money if offered. I have great respect for their knowledge of the financial industry as well as quality of talent, but no respect for their business practices or questionable conduct."

For starters who don't understand what's the fuss about the since officially denied Goldman Sachs connection.

No one questing the financial expertise of GS. The question is how are they using it ?

The answer: To control/screw/scam people, the market, the little guy, and also countries....

The best example is Greece. Goldman Sachs had been advising Greece to join the euro, despite the fact that they knew Greece was cooking its books/budget number. In fact GS helped Greece in cooking its national budget and hide it's true national debt level. Then, after that country joined the Euro, they were secretly betting on its default.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/greek-debt-crisis-how-goldman-sachs-helped-greece-to-mask-its-true-debt-a-676634.html
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/economy/2010-02-25-bernanke-fed-greece_N.htm

And this is only one evil deed from Goldman Sachs. There are hundreds of more.

Who wants to be associated with such a parasitic entity?

Exactly what about what I said shows a misunderstanding? They are already involved (not in Ethereum but in Bitcoin). If you have a truly free market then the banks are people you are competing with as well. But what's funny is that people are under the impression that bankers are not going to play. If Goldman Sachs was directly involved they would be bankrolling the project or at the very least owning a large stake in the company.

You have people saying that either:

A) " ...but if they can't get money from a bank or venture capitalist, and need to beg to Bitcoin community to fund their project."

and

B) The bankers are the owners of Ethereum!

Which one is it? It's a bunch of noise.

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2013/12/27/michele-burns-circle/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/01/traders-bitcoin-idUSL6E8ET5K620120401


I'm not going to sit here all day looking up sources and quotes but thinking they don't already have stake in the game is a bit naive. Wasn't it JP Morgan that filed a patent for basically their own bank version of bitcoin? If you have money to invest, there is way more money to be made piggy backing off of Bitcoin right now. ATM companies, exchanges, any bitcoin related service really is a completely new market. Once BTC becomes regulated a bit in the US and banks have a legal leg to stand on that protects them, they are going to be in it to win it.

I just wanted to thank slingshot for my new sig line. Thanks dood.

You don't really understand how goldman sachs works do you?

You guys are kidding right? I used to work at Subway when I was younger. If I work on a coin does that mean that the sandwich industrial complex has a stranglehold over my operations?

I get the whole "screw the banks" mentality, I really do. I'm right there with you. But if you think that the people who work/run/created the financial system haven't already been involved in the bitcoin world you are crazy. Do you think that bankers would prefer not to play around in an unregulated arena? C'mon. If there are profits to be made then the people everyone is rallying against are already involved. Bitcoin isn't really a secret. Satoshi could have worked at Goldman Sachs for all you know. Someone prove that he didn't. There are mysterious people sitting on massive stacks of BTC all over the world. You really think the best and brightest of the financial world are all sitting on the sidelines crying about how they wish they understood how to set up a wallet?

These guys here are up front with where these guys worked. People who worked at banks are going to be involved/already are. All this big talk of boycotting the whole project and whatnot solely based on a bank being mentioned is stupid talk. You are just conditioning the next wave of coin makers to be deceptive, anonymous, and guarded with their information. But maybe that's what you guys want. Just know that that is what you are going to get.

True that +1

We all have a choice. Dont choose the people that will take your homes away and throw you out on the streets without a thought. Bitcoin/altcoins will turn into another centralized currency if we keep letting the snakes make their way through.

All this hostility looks a little like weakness. If you believe in a plurality of cryptocoins  and a free market, then let the banks compete. I don't think they stand a chance.  

Oh, and I don't think GS is involved.

So what is a couple of their developers worked at Goldman Sachs?
Goldman Sachs hires some of the most talented folk in the industry and so having them on board with Ethereum now is a big win.

Goldman's are almost certainly not involved in this project - just some of their ex employees.

I have read a little bit about this i have a few question

Where the fuck are the wallet and the miner and what can it be mined with ?

To theoretical not enough practical explanation.

If guys from goldman sachs are part of it and it is true that 50% of it is premined so it is not coin for people, this is coin for them to get more moneay and laugh at us. We can't let it happen. It is gonna be a big fat LIE

Lulz. Taxing cryptocurreny? Are you kidding me? How is that possibly beneficial to anyone besides government. The only "tax" that should ever come on crypto is the mining fee. The government and its agencies have nothing to do with the ecosystem and it should remain that way. The free people of the world finally have a new source of common trade that is independent of government backed dollars for the first time since 1913 and you're suggesting we invite them in to tax it? People are quick to forget that the American Revolution was started because of a 2% tax on Tea. Another fact people forget is that the U.S. Supreme Court already ruled that tax on income and real property is unconstitutional. Understand your rights history before you so openly advocate for taxes. If you wanna go ahead and donate your coins to the government then go ahead but don't bring the rest of us with you

-On May 21, 1895, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that a direct tax on personal income was unconstitutional as a result of the case of Pollock v. Farmers‘ Loan and Trust Company. The lawsuit had been precipitated by the 1894 Income Tax Act. The Supreme Court’s 5-4 decision stated that a “direct tax” on the “income of real and of personal property” was “unconstitutional and void.”


When you strip everything away from all the hype you should realize that it is a virtual currency and if any regulation gets passed on it then it would apply to the millions of gamers in WOW, GW2 and other mmos who use virtual curency. There's been places like http://buy-wow-gold.com/ where people have been buying and selling those currencies for almost a decade. I'm sure we will find some great allies in the video game industry to lobby against any regulation or tax on cryptocurrencies as it will surely effect their bottom line.


Any coin that Goldman Sachs is involved in is toxic. Look at the what they did to the US economy and real estate market with the sub-prime mortgage industry.. These guys literally invented the adjustable rate sub-prime loan.. Made literally trillions of dollars by imploding the markets and getting carried on the back of the tax payers when shit went sour by design. So we can expect nothing less from any coin backed by these guys.

quote author=Ethereumnyc


quote author=Ethereumnyc


quote author=Ethereumnyc


SHILLING INTENSIFIES

If you overlook the fact that it has some Goldman guys being involved, it still has all the negatives of NXT, Quark, and Protoshares wrapped into one coin as mentioned in my post:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/why-ethereum-is-garbage-and-must-be-stopped-432207

No matter what positives the coin is able to bring, which are all completely unknown at this point, they have packaged the negatives from every other coin in existence and bundled them all into one product.