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Topic: Goliath - page 2. (Read 9234 times)

legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1026
In Cryptocoins I Trust
December 13, 2012, 05:13:56 PM
#44
If you are selling hardware, you better announce the specs/price/pre-order quickly, because everyone has already plopped down a big chunk of change for ASICs. I can't imagine there's a whole lot of money left in the bitcoin investor ecosystem after everyone buys shiny new ASICs. Time is of the essence for such a project.
donator
Activity: 1419
Merit: 1015
December 13, 2012, 04:23:57 PM
#43
If this is a distributed cracking project, I may be interested. I need an AES-128 password cracked and my GPUs are tied up on something ATM...
legendary
Activity: 1153
Merit: 1000
December 13, 2012, 04:19:30 PM
#42
I know many people want to know the fine detail but that's knowledge that we don't want to give away as said previously.
Yohan, not stating anything  is completely your preoperative, but I don't know why you're asking for my money then. Smiley

At the very least I would want to understand a few metrics in order to evaluate how this compares to what I think Avalon will bring.
a) Ghash/s per $ of capital cost
b) Ghash/s per Watt
c) Ghash/s per Total opex cost (server space, electricity cost, etc)

The technology question is irrelevant I could call it ASIC but that actually doesn't mean anything really. In true meaning a CPU is an ASIC so is actually a FPGA both raw and loaded. I could equally well use a long description which is more accurate but that would confuse all other than the very technically orientated in this forum.

The definition of CPU, FPGA and ASIC relates to how the computation is performed. Not the fact that they are silicon chips. Sorry, calling a CPU an ASIC  is a pet peeve of mine, so please excuse the clarification.
- A CPU performs computation as a series of instructions, very inefficient
- A FPGA performs computation in logical LUTs, better than CPU but still inefficient
- An ASIC performs computation directly on transistors, most efficient

We have moved on technology wise from what we did on Cairnsmore1 and we have learned many things doing that project and from running our own mining rigs based on CM1 boards. Generally CM1 was our way to learn about Bitcoin and what works and what doesn't. CM1 was very deliberately limited in the technology that we deployed and that was to meet timescales and do what we promised.

Designing PCB boards that house FPGA chips supplied from Xilinx/Altera is a completely different skill set than designing and fabricating an ASIC where you have to be first time right or all investment is lost. bASIC and BFL are learning this. Just because Cairnsmore1 was a success, does not mean the next engineering project will be. Again it comes down to how can I evaluate if you are capable of building this project, if I don't know what the project is doing?

One last thing that confuses me. You say that we will be able to measure the effect in the network hash rate prior to funding. But that would mean the project is already complete and working, which begs the question, "why do you need my money to fund something that is already completed???"
member
Activity: 86
Merit: 10
December 13, 2012, 03:38:40 PM
#41
If you do loans or shares you need to register with the various UK & US authorities. You have tax / legal compliance issue for various countries. In the US if you get past a certain share holder count the SEC requires you to go public.

I would just sell the devices.

sr. member
Activity: 327
Merit: 250
December 13, 2012, 02:49:29 PM
#40
I'm not real interested in a Mining Bond myself. I really like my CM1 Devices and would prefer to have actual Hardware.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
December 13, 2012, 01:53:33 PM
#39
He is just doing what BFL did Selling you a Idea but at least he told you in advance lol

Atleast w/ BFL and the other ASIC Companies you Can Buy the Hardware and can be Equal with the other guys...
No, we can, he can't. He bought the "idea" too, but BFL returned the money he payed for a Jalapeño because they did not want him as a customer anymore.   Grin

Did I not see you crying about BFL in some other thread? Guess its just personal now lol
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
December 13, 2012, 11:50:23 AM
#38
He is just doing what BFL did Selling you a Idea but at least he told you in advance lol

Atleast w/ BFL and the other ASIC Companies you Can Buy the Hardware and can be Equal with the other guys...
No, we can, he can't. He bought the "idea" too, but BFL returned the money he payed for a Jalapeño because they did not want him as a customer anymore.   Grin

Haha, I hate it when that happens  Shocked
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1003
December 13, 2012, 11:43:30 AM
#37
Just do it. You are speaking sense.
sr. member
Activity: 470
Merit: 250
December 13, 2012, 11:38:36 AM
#36
several goverments already have equipment that can do a 51% attack if they want to bring down Bitcoin. I'd also make the comment that they have deep pockets and any ASIC technology deployed in Bitcoin rigs can be beaten by a goverment with money for a much better technology.

A 51% attack can be defended with checkpoints, rollbacks, and algorithm changes. If Bitcoin is made illegal then mining will happen through TOR and there is a good chance that Bitcoin will survive. A public mining company would collapse like a house of cards when mining is made illegal.
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 500
December 13, 2012, 11:30:11 AM
#35
He is just doing what BFL did Selling you a Idea but at least he told you in advance lol

Atleast w/ BFL and the other ASIC Companies you Can Buy the Hardware and can be Equal with the other guys...
No, we can, he can't. He bought the "idea" too, but BFL returned the money he payed for a Jalapeño because they did not want him as a customer anymore.   Grin
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
December 13, 2012, 11:11:20 AM
#34
There might come a day when a large government decides that it wants to shut down Bitcoin and they would have a hard time shutting down thousands of miners around the world. It will be much, much easier if there are only a few big miners. Bitcoin mining is meant to be widely distributed in order to be as robust as possible. Please sell your hardware to as many people as possible if you care about Bitcoin.
I actually agree with this.

+1  Yup
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
December 13, 2012, 11:10:01 AM
#33
He is just doing what BFL did Selling you a Idea but at least he told you in advance lol

Atleast w/ BFL and the other ASIC Companies you Can Buy the Hardware and can be Equal with the other guys...
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
December 13, 2012, 11:09:19 AM
#32
I cannot even see this thread in the subforum without getting this song stuck in my head.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1003
December 13, 2012, 10:54:24 AM
#31
Just do the project. It will be controversial, but you will get investors if you offer reasonable terms. Preferably equity in my view.
People may not want their investment status to be public. But they will be happy to invest in secret.
Plenty of people would love to get involved in mining via investing in a legally registered company.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
December 13, 2012, 10:53:54 AM
#30
He is just doing what BFL did Selling you a Idea but at least he told you in advance lol
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
December 13, 2012, 10:48:34 AM
#29
     Just what the Bitcoin Mining Community Does NOT need is a Multi-million $$ company taking more from Us little guys...Let us Individuals have the Mining and all you Companies keep doing the Hardware.  It's things like this that taking away opportunities for the Small Individuals that would like to have a Nice Hobby and Make a Little money as well!!   

This is just my opinion but it's this stuff that will ruin mining as intended when Bitcoin was Developed.  The people w/ big money Swallowing up the individuals.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
December 13, 2012, 09:51:16 AM
#28
Scenario 1

Enterpoint gets a conventional loan from a bank.  Mines bitcoin.  Private, centralized.  


Scenario 2

Enterpoint offers equity stake mining bond to community.  Dividends paid.  Capital risk hedged on the back of community if bitcoin tanks.  
Investors have little idea if the product can scale performance wise.  A privately controlled product developed on what effectively is a loan from a community of potential competitors.



Either way it's pretty shite.

It will happen anyways. He might as well give the community a chance to profit from it.


@ Yohan and Cunicula


I am going to refrain from giving my opinion on projects like this in the future.  I do agree this will happen regardless of how I personally feel, or many people feel, about it.


We'll all see what happens.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1003
December 13, 2012, 09:36:03 AM
#27
Scenario 1

Enterpoint gets a conventional loan from a bank.  Mines bitcoin.  Private, centralized.  


Scenario 2

Enterpoint offers equity stake mining bond to community.  Dividends paid.  Capital risk hedged on the back of community if bitcoin tanks.  
Investors have little idea if the product can scale performance wise.  A privately controlled product developed on what effectively is a loan from a community of potential competitors.



Either way it's pretty shite.

It will happen anyways. He might as well give the community a chance to profit from it.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
December 13, 2012, 09:28:50 AM
#26
Scenario 1

Enterpoint gets a conventional loan from a bank.  Mines bitcoin.  Private, centralized.  


Scenario 2

Enterpoint offers equity stake mining bond to community.  Dividends paid.  Capital risk hedged on the back of community if bitcoin tanks.  
Investors have little idea if the product can scale performance wise.  A privately controlled product developed on what effectively is a loan from a community of potential competitors.



Either way it's pretty shite.
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
December 13, 2012, 09:06:35 AM
#25
There might come a day when a large government decides that it wants to shut down Bitcoin and they would have a hard time shutting down thousands of miners around the world. It will be much, much easier if there are only a few big miners. Bitcoin mining is meant to be widely distributed in order to be as robust as possible. Please sell your hardware to as many people as possible if you care about Bitcoin.
I actually agree with this.
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