Gox have at least 200k BTC - lost keys or GAG ORDER most likely not theft - page 2.

jatajuta

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Quote from: anu on February 27, 2014, 12:35:23 PM

Quote from: jatajuta on February 27, 2014, 12:23:48 PM

If there is an US gov investigation which is forcing Mark to cooperate they could issue a gag order, that would explain the silence.

That would be extremely interesting, seeing that Mark is a French citizen living in Japan.

Silk Road users could very well use gox to withdraw cash or buy btc on the early years.

This alone is an excuse for an intervention given that Japan is a very cooperative jurisdiction, not farfetched to imagine a cooperation between Karpeles and the US gov given that he has seized assets on US.

anu

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Quote from: jatajuta on February 27, 2014, 12:23:48 PM

If there is an US gov investigation which is forcing Mark to cooperate they could issue a gag order, that would explain the silence.

That would be extremely interesting, seeing that Mark is a French citizen living in Japan.

joehal

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Quote from: derpinheimer on February 27, 2014, 12:17:11 PM

If 750k coins are lost or stolen, there is a 0% chance of getting money back. It would cost >1 billion dollars to acquire those coins. How long would it take them to recoup 1 billion? A long time. Like.. theyll never recoup it.

So, what do they choose? Nothing. Either they have the coins or they dont.

But the users DO have a choice. At least it's much better than zero. Or suing to get a 5 dollars compensation (the money split among all users). And it's not only a good choice - it could improve all the exchanges and bitcoin in the process. With a much better security and environment.
A environment built like the bitcoin. We shouldn't trust in the owner of an exchange. We should create a trustless exchange. And if the 1 million shareholders will agree to be joint owners, the exchange built will be even more profitable than the old one (which was already profitable)

We will give a great example to the world. People will truly see then that bitcoin related things don't fail so easily. And all the news/media proclaiming the death of bitcoin because of GOX, will look like idiots.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/open-letter-to-mark-karpeles-voluntary-reorganization-best-option-for-us-all-489949 (Voluntary Reorganization Best Option for Us All)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/MtGox-Recovery-Initiative/1394428424158424 - Like and spread the word

cbutters

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I'm still missing in the IRC logs where they discuss a 550,000 BTC proof move transaction... or a link between the addresses with money in them and the 424K proof transaction..... can you clarify?

jatajuta

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Maybe there is another issues we aren't grasping, he is constantly saying about other parties involved.

If there is an US gov investigation which is forcing Mark to cooperate they could issue a gag order, that would explain the silence.

Also depending on where is the cold storage the authorities could very well restrict Karpeles from using them.

It is just thoughts but it would add a little bit of reality on the matter, because it is impossible to lose so much on theft, and nobody stay so quiet while the business you are working so hard crumble to pieces.

What is not being said is what matter the most.

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/1z2xo5/speculation_the_us_government_has_control_of_goxs/

porcupine87

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hm

So mark just could sign this addresses, so there would be proof! The address with the 424242.42424242 transaction is empty now. And really? Sending a unique number is his way to proof he has the coins? pff

Quote from: Dragonkiller on February 27, 2014, 11:10:25 AM

Losing keys is my worst nightmare

This would be a sweet headline. "Bitcoins worth mayn millions are simply lost".
-> I think this would be good news. It teaches the people about Bitcoin (ah, there are something called private keys) and about prices (ah supply goes down with same demand is a higher price? Even with money).
And, this would make everyone with coins a little bit richer. The supply would decrease by a few 100 000.

derpinheimer

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Quote from: joehal on February 27, 2014, 12:11:52 PM

Whether the bitcoins are lost or not is irrelevant. The fact is Gox has 1 million shareholders which could stand to lose millions. What will they do ? What will they chose ?

If 750k coins are lost or stolen, there is a 0% chance of getting money back. It would cost >1 billion dollars to acquire those coins. How long would it take them to recoup 1 billion? A long time. Like.. theyll never recoup it.

So, what do they choose? Nothing. Either they have the coins or they dont.

Can someone help me understand the whole wallet encryption thing? I never quite understood it.

joehal

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Whether the bitcoins are lost or not is irrelevant. The fact is Gox has 1 million shareholders which could stand to lose millions. What will they do ? What will they chose ?

FierceRadish

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Quote from: Dragonkiller on February 27, 2014, 11:59:49 AM

Quote from: FierceRadish on February 27, 2014, 11:58:57 AM

THIS IS FROM 2011

Even the IRC chat posted is from 2011.

http://pastebin.com/d7vp06hL

This is irrelevant and proves nothing.

You're missing the point

I think I've got you now. Interesting...

Dragonkiller

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Quote from: FierceRadish on February 27, 2014, 11:58:57 AM

THIS IS FROM 2011

Even the IRC chat posted is from 2011.

http://pastebin.com/d7vp06hL

This is irrelevant and proves nothing.

You're missing the point

epetroel

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Quote from: cbutters on February 27, 2014, 11:55:05 AM

Quote from: epetroel on February 27, 2014, 11:52:49 AM

Yeah, that shows they had it in 2011, but doesn't prove they have squat today.

It does prove that the BTC is owned by mtgox and the BTC is STILL there.... assuming the IRC is not faked. which means the question is:
Does mtgox have the private key for these addresses?

Ahh, gotcha, I misunderstood.

wobber

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Quote from: cbutters on February 27, 2014, 11:55:05 AM

Quote from: epetroel on February 27, 2014, 11:52:49 AM

Yeah, that shows they had it in 2011, but doesn't prove they have squat today.

It does prove that the BTC is owned by mtgox and the BTC is STILL there.... assuming the IRC is not faked. which means the question is:
Does mtgox have the private key for these addresses?

I would assume these wallets are being encrypted with different keys. If you do this, I think you're not stupid enough to put the encryption keys in the same place. This makes me to believe access is possible but unavailable. Maybe he put them in safes in banks but cannot access them.

Otherwise, fuck yea... 200k coins lost forever if he lost the keys.

FierceRadish

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EDIT: Okay, I see what you're saying. These bitcoins are in the same addresses as they were in 2011?

cbutters

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Quote from: epetroel on February 27, 2014, 11:52:49 AM

Yeah, that shows they had it in 2011, but doesn't prove they have squat today.

It does prove that the BTC is owned by mtgox and the BTC is STILL there.... assuming the IRC is not faked. which means the question is:
Does mtgox have the private key for these addresses?

cdooer

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Quote from: cbutters on February 27, 2014, 11:52:16 AM

So basically what is being said is that these addresses are known mtgox addresses
(Known according to these IRC logs....) Can anyone else confirm somehow that these are known mtgox wallet addresses?
:

50k 1P3S1grZYmcqYDuaEDVDYobJ5Fx85E9fE9 first input: 11/16/2011 05:59:08
40k 1cXNTyXj4xPGopfYZNY5xfSM1EPJJvBZV first input: 11/16/2011 05:59:08
40k 12HddUDLhRP2F8JjpKYeKaDxxt5wUvx5nq first input: 11/16/2011 05:38:46
40k 16Ls6azc76ixc9Ny7AB5ZPPq6oiEL9XwXy first input: 11/16/2011 05:38:46
30k 1MyGwFAJjVtB5rGJa32M6Yh46cGirUta1K first input: 11/16/2011 05:45:03

so basically mtgox has at least 200,000 in their "ownership" but might have lost the private keys for them.

Ahh, I see. Thanks.

epetroel

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Yeah, that shows they had it in 2011, but doesn't prove they have squat today.

cbutters

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So basically what is being said is that these addresses are known mtgox addresses
(Known according to these IRC logs....) Can anyone else confirm somehow that these are known mtgox wallet addresses?
:

50k 1P3S1grZYmcqYDuaEDVDYobJ5Fx85E9fE9 first input: 11/16/2011 05:59:08
40k 1cXNTyXj4xPGopfYZNY5xfSM1EPJJvBZV first input: 11/16/2011 05:59:08
40k 12HddUDLhRP2F8JjpKYeKaDxxt5wUvx5nq first input: 11/16/2011 05:38:46
40k 16Ls6azc76ixc9Ny7AB5ZPPq6oiEL9XwXy first input: 11/16/2011 05:38:46
30k 1MyGwFAJjVtB5rGJa32M6Yh46cGirUta1K first input: 11/16/2011 05:45:03

so basically mtgox has at least 200,000 in their "ownership" but might have lost the private keys for them.

FierceRadish

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Quote from: cdooer on February 27, 2014, 11:33:06 AM

I don't get it, someone please explain in english. Looks like a bunch of transactions from 2011.

Agreed. Why the 2011 dates? These IRC chats look very easy to fake.

cdooer

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I don't get it, someone please explain in english. Looks like a bunch of transactions from 2011.

jatajuta

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Quote from: cbutters on February 27, 2014, 11:27:38 AM

but the address he sent the 424k is now empty....
https://blockchain.info/address/1eHhgW6vquBYhwMPhQ668HPjxTtpvZGPC

what am I missing?

http://pastebin.com/q4EV1xAc

Topic: Gox have at least 200k BTC - lost keys or GAG ORDER most likely not theft - page 2. (Read 10128 times)