Greece: Greenspan predicts exit from euro inevitable - page 3.

soy

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Quote from: picolo on February 08, 2015, 03:22:19 PM

Quote from: soy on February 08, 2015, 03:10:06 PM

Maybe if we look at it in a different, more limited, context of what determines if Greece stays in the EU. Many years ago I worked with an old Greek gentleman on a production floor. Craggy features, old clothes, didn't walk well, and in the evenings he played violin with a chamber orchestra. One day communists were mentioned in passing and he got heatedly angry, almost angry enough to spit, just with the mention of communists. Right now the EU and the US are somewhat apart on treatment of the Ukrainian invasion. Perhaps the Greeks feel the EU is soft on the Russians, albeit Russia no longer Communist.

Maybe Mr. Greenspan anticipated the EU getting soft with Russia for its natural gas and eventual dependance on it and the Greeks saying screw that.

A history professor one time explained that when Germany and Russia fell out, Germany's war was doomed in that Germany simply could not wage war on the scale planned without Russian petroleum. As it was it ran its tanks on synfuel from coal. Perhaps the same is true for the EU, albeit not war but survival.

The USA are worried about other big nations like Russia.
Greenspan should have tell the truth when he was in command, not now that he wants to set the record straight before he dies.

I'd say it's the EU searching for their Neville Chamberlain not the US.

Grand_Voyageur

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Quote from: redsn0w on February 08, 2015, 09:23:58 AM

Quote

Mr Greenspan, chairman of the Federal Reserve from 1987 to 2006, said: "I believe [Greece] will eventually leave. I don't think it helps them or the rest of the eurozone - it is just a matter of time before everyone recognises that parting is the best strategy.

"The problem is that there there is no way that I can conceive of the euro of continuing, unless and until all of the members of eurozone become politically integrated - actually even just fiscally integrated won't do it."

more here : http://www.bbc.com/news/business-31249907

I think the Greece will never go out from the Europe, what do you think guys ?

I'm not so sure about Greece reforming itself enough to keep her EMU membership. Greece due to her own geography have difficulties in collecting taxes (1, 2) and concentrating capital in accordance with the needs of the state. Also due to the same financial constraints the question for Greece is whether it will be able to accept its much-reduced geopolitical role. Reducing the huge defence budget require an agreement with Turkey so that Greece have not to see Turkey as an existential threat anymore; however, this is easy said than done (3, 4). Alternatively, Greece needs to find a way to become useful again to one or more great powers - as an example her recent try to court Russia - so to receive from them financial subsidies (5).

Lethn

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Quote from: redsn0w on February 08, 2015, 03:25:11 PM

Quote from: Lethn on February 08, 2015, 01:42:54 PM

The ECB isn't going to let it happen, they've even outright stated they won't allow Greece to default and so on, the only way Greece could become independent is if the whole country decided on it.

Yes of course they don't "allow" this thing. I'm thinking that moment when all the system will break, what will happen?

It will breakup, maybe a few wars here and there between rival countries who choose to stay independent and so on, the european union is an empire no matter how they try to act and in fact, there are very few truly independent countries left out there in the world, it's all big alliances and protectorates now.

picolo

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Quote from: redsn0w on February 08, 2015, 03:51:17 PM

Quote from: Aggressor66 on February 08, 2015, 01:54:11 PM

Greenspan has a terrible track record on running his own nation's economy.

He's been wrong so often it's not even funny, but what do you expect from a man who spent his early adult years as an acolyte of Ayn Rand - that's not even a joke, the man was a member of her weird cult as a young man, and remained so until she died some three decades later.

Dangerous loon, he and his nutjob friends are why the world is in such a state.

I don't know his life/history, so I can't judge him. However as I told before (my personal opinion) the Greece will never get out from the EU.

You should explain why beacuse it is not a matter of opinions but facts and probabilities. Greece has a good chance of going out of the EURO but it would stay in the EU.

redsn0w

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#Free market

Quote from: Aggressor66 on February 08, 2015, 01:54:11 PM

Greenspan has a terrible track record on running his own nation's economy.

He's been wrong so often it's not even funny, but what do you expect from a man who spent his early adult years as an acolyte of Ayn Rand - that's not even a joke, the man was a member of her weird cult as a young man, and remained so until she died some three decades later.

Dangerous loon, he and his nutjob friends are why the world is in such a state.

I don't know his life/history, so I can't judge him. However as I told before (my personal opinion) the Greece will never get out from the EU.

redsn0w

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#Free market

Quote from: Lethn on February 08, 2015, 01:42:54 PM

The ECB isn't going to let it happen, they've even outright stated they won't allow Greece to default and so on, the only way Greece could become independent is if the whole country decided on it.

Yes of course they don't "allow" this thing. I'm thinking that moment when all the system will break, what will happen?

picolo

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Quote from: soy on February 08, 2015, 03:10:06 PM

Maybe if we look at it in a different, more limited, context of what determines if Greece stays in the EU. Many years ago I worked with an old Greek gentleman on a production floor. Craggy features, old clothes, didn't walk well, and in the evenings he played violin with a chamber orchestra. One day communists were mentioned in passing and he got heatedly angry, almost angry enough to spit, just with the mention of communists. Right now the EU and the US are somewhat apart on treatment of the Ukrainian invasion. Perhaps the Greeks feel the EU is soft on the Russians, albeit Russia no longer Communist.

Maybe Mr. Greenspan anticipated the EU getting soft with Russia for its natural gas and eventual dependance on it and the Greeks saying screw that.

A history professor one time explained that when Germany and Russia fell out, Germany's war was doomed in that Germany simply could not wage war on the scale planned without Russian petroleum. As it was it ran its tanks on synfuel from coal. Perhaps the same is true for the EU, albeit not war but survival.

The USA are worried about other big nations like Russia.
Greenspan should have tell the truth when he was in command, not now that he wants to set the record straight before he dies.

soy

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Activity: 1428

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Maybe if we look at it in a different, more limited, context of what determines if Greece stays in the EU. Many years ago I worked with an old Greek gentleman on a production floor. Craggy features, old clothes, didn't walk well, and in the evenings he played violin with a chamber orchestra. One day communists were mentioned in passing and he got heatedly angry, almost angry enough to spit, just with the mention of communists. Right now the EU and the US are somewhat apart on treatment of the Ukrainian invasion. Perhaps the Greeks feel the EU is soft on the Russians, albeit Russia no longer Communist.

Maybe Mr. Greenspan anticipated the EU getting soft with Russia for its natural gas and eventual dependance on it and the Greeks saying screw that.

A history professor one time explained that when Germany and Russia fell out, Germany's war was doomed in that Germany simply could not wage war on the scale planned without Russian petroleum. As it was it ran its tanks on synfuel from coal. Perhaps the same is true for the EU, albeit not war but survival.

picolo

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Quote from: redsn0w on February 08, 2015, 02:28:10 PM

Quote from: soy on February 08, 2015, 01:32:22 PM

Greece says if they leave then expect Italy will soon follow due to their own debt situation.

I'm not clear on the EU economic bonds versus their political bonds. Say Greece pulls out then Italy, will border crossing posts requiring passports go up along the Italian border?

More of Bitcoin owner concern, will Greek and Italian banks halt withdrawals? Will Bitcoin benefit or has its devaluation since December 2013 precluded it as a 'safer' haven than Greek or Italian banks?

No I don't think Italy will get out from Europe (at the moment I'm living in Italy). You are right when you said "More of Bitcoin owner concern, will Greek ~~and Italian~~ banks halt withdrawals? Will Bitcoin benefit or has its devaluation since December 2013 precluded it as a 'safer' haven than Greek or Italian banks?"

Most probable they will "block" all the withdrawals from the banks.

Greeks are taking out their fiat out of banks.

findftp

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Quote from: redsn0w on February 08, 2015, 09:23:58 AM

Quote

Mr Greenspan, chairman of the Federal Reserve from 1987 to 2006, said: "I believe [Greece] will eventually leave. I don't think it helps them or the rest of the eurozone - it is just a matter of time before everyone recognises that parting is the best strategy.

"The problem is that there there is no way that I can conceive of the euro of continuing, unless and until all of the members of eurozone become politically integrated - actually even just fiscally integrated won't do it."

more here : http://www.bbc.com/news/business-31249907

I think the Greece will never go out from the Europe, what do you think guys ?

I think we should not listen too much to mr greenspan.
He's just an old man making noise.

Also, I think Greece exiting from europe is possible. I actually hope they do. It will cause some stress and chaos, but the longer you postpone, the harder it gets.

pedrog

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Quote from: redsn0w on February 08, 2015, 09:23:58 AM

Quote

Mr Greenspan, chairman of the Federal Reserve from 1987 to 2006, said: "I believe [Greece] will eventually leave. I don't think it helps them or the rest of the eurozone - it is just a matter of time before everyone recognises that parting is the best strategy.

"The problem is that there there is no way that I can conceive of the euro of continuing, unless and until all of the members of eurozone become politically integrated - actually even just fiscally integrated won't do it."

more here : http://www.bbc.com/news/business-31249907

I think the Greece will never go out from the Europe, what do you think guys ?

I agree, Greece will never get out of Europe. Cheesy

redsn0w

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#Free market

Quote from: soy on February 08, 2015, 01:32:22 PM

Greece says if they leave then expect Italy will soon follow due to their own debt situation.

I'm not clear on the EU economic bonds versus their political bonds. Say Greece pulls out then Italy, will border crossing posts requiring passports go up along the Italian border?

More of Bitcoin owner concern, will Greek and Italian banks halt withdrawals? Will Bitcoin benefit or has its devaluation since December 2013 precluded it as a 'safer' haven than Greek or Italian banks?

No I don't think Italy will get out from Europe (at the moment I'm living in Italy). You are right when you said "More of Bitcoin owner concern, will Greek ~~and Italian~~ banks halt withdrawals? Will Bitcoin benefit or has its devaluation since December 2013 precluded it as a 'safer' haven than Greek or Italian banks?"

Most probable they will "block" all the withdrawals from the banks.

redsn0w

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#Free market

Quote from: Finchy on February 08, 2015, 09:48:13 AM

They obviously feel that being in the Euro isn't doing them any good and is a drain on their economy. I don't know whether they will leave or not but it'll be interesting to see if they do. I think if they do leave it could have an effect on other countries possibly thinking about it.

So is it better to get out from the europe? Maybe it will be the right decision.

Aggressor66

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Greenspan has a terrible track record on running his own nation's economy.

He's been wrong so often it's not even funny, but what do you expect from a man who spent his early adult years as an acolyte of Ayn Rand - that's not even a joke, the man was a member of her weird cult as a young man, and remained so until she died some three decades later.

Dangerous loon, he and his nutjob friends are why the world is in such a state.

Lethn

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The ECB isn't going to let it happen, they've even outright stated they won't allow Greece to default and so on, the only way Greece could become independent is if the whole country decided on it.

soy

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Greece says if they leave then expect Italy will soon follow due to their own debt situation.

I'm not clear on the EU economic bonds versus their political bonds. Say Greece pulls out then Italy, will border crossing posts requiring passports go up along the Italian border?

More of Bitcoin owner concern, will Greek and Italian banks halt withdrawals? Will Bitcoin benefit or has its devaluation since December 2013 precluded it as a 'safer' haven than Greek or Italian banks?

Finchy

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They obviously feel that being in the Euro isn't doing them any good and is a drain on their economy. I don't know whether they will leave or not but it'll be interesting to see if they do. I think if they do leave it could have an effect on other countries possibly thinking about it.

redsn0w

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#Free market

Quote

Mr Greenspan, chairman of the Federal Reserve from 1987 to 2006, said: "I believe [Greece] will eventually leave. I don't think it helps them or the rest of the eurozone - it is just a matter of time before everyone recognises that parting is the best strategy.

"The problem is that there there is no way that I can conceive of the euro of continuing, unless and until all of the members of eurozone become politically integrated - actually even just fiscally integrated won't do it."

more here : http://www.bbc.com/news/business-31249907

I think the Greece will never go out from the Europe, what do you think guys ?

Topic: Greece: Greenspan predicts exit from euro inevitable - page 3. (Read 4516 times)