Topic: Guides for using Bisq (Read 918 times)

You almost fooled me if not for the #21,000.

Given that Bisq doesn't use a full reputation system, then that would be difficult. Although nothing stopping you from only accepting cash trades from users you have already done non-cash trades with and have a good local reputation score.

In those cases, I just politely inform the merchant I'll take my bitcoin business elsewhere, and if they would like to secure my business in the future then to consider accepting bitcoin. Don't need to be pushy about it - just let them know a demand exists and move on.

Bad idea. Easy to fake and difficult to verify for the average person.

Not a bad idea; people could even buy a very specific product that the Bitcoin seller wants, for fiat money and exchange that for Bitcoin.
I just chose cigarette packs a bit as a joke, due to being used as currency in prisons.. ^^

I've got to disappoint; neither do I own the GitHub 'n0nce' username, nor could I open a GitHub issue with a custom number of #21000.. Just a bit of HTML trickery.

Silver sounds like a pretty good idea; it can even be bought (for cash or with card) and sold, in virtually any city easily. Need a way of shipping it though (more personal data?). Or face-to-face, of course.

You better start the process yourself if you want to preserve cash trading with Bitcoin.
There would be no chance any government would be able to remove cash if enough people didn't accept this change, and want to continue using cash payments.
More people should pay stuff with cash in every day life, so there would be more trading options for Bitcoin, and except Bisq you could try other P2P trading websites from kycnot.me website.

All we can do is ask more people if they want to accept payment in Bitcoin.
I am doing that all the time, but in best cases I am getting answers they lost all money in crypto investing in some shitcoins crap.
In worst cases they think it's all a scam or they never heard anything about Bitcoin.

So you actually sent a merge request for this (CIG) List Cigarettes? 
Instead of Gold I would rather think about grams of Silver, it is cheaper, easier to find/divide and it has longer history as being used for payments.

Ugh, I did sacrifice a little privacy for this post again, didn't I? 

Sure, but I'd rather go with trusted buyers only, and that worsens the occasion. (AFAIK, trading with newbie buyers does come with a risk, even if there's a mediator involved)

Fuck it. Let's just pull a request, and setup an entire decentralized marketplace right now. 

What about....


Historically, societies have been very creative in finding ways to transfer value, physically.
What about 'grams of gold' <> BTC as a trade pair for Bisq?

Great, do it! And if someone doesn't like your offer, they are free to create their own offer which under cuts you. And thus begins the start of an ecosystem of cash trading in your local area.

I've always disliked the argument "There is no liquidity in my area/currency/chosen payment method/etc." when it comes to talking about platforms like Bisq. You don't have to wait for someone else to create the liquidity for you. Such is the beauty of a true DEX - you can create the liquidity yourself, easily, and at no cost. The largest peer to peer trading ecosystems started with a single person posting a single offer.

Then we better get a lot more places to start accepting bitcoin directly before that happens.

I'm going to take advantage of it, if I do it. How much does 1 worth? $16,500? Well, how about $25,000? Less liquidity, less competition. If you don't want, go to the bank. 

What concerns me is that someday there won't be physical cash. You'll have to find another solution, if there will be one (to avoid a bank).

Nothing major, otherwise any time anyone made a bank transfer you would be at risk, since you reveal your name and account number. I'm just saying - if you don't want to reveal your account number, there are other methods you can choose.

Then you can be the first! Create an offer and see if anyone takes you up on it.

Well, the easiest way to avoid that is to avoid the bank altogether. If you can't spend bitcoin directly, then sell it for cash and spend the cash directly. Better for your privacy too.

What's bad with knowing an IBAN number, if you know the full name? I've sold some coins and used Revolut. I think the sender just knows your full name that way.

The main problem with cash trades is liquidity. None in my country who uses Bisq accepts F2F. Also, even if you've built some trust with traders, there's still concern of money laundering from your bank, especially if there's no corresponded tax framework.

Far less that a random person can do with your name and bank account number than a centralized exchange sharing data with blockchain analysis companies, governments, and bunch of other third parties can do with your full KYC data and scans of your important documents. And if even knowing your bank account number is too much for you, then there are other methods you can use which only reveal your name or indeed nothing at all.

When selling bitcoin, I tend to prefer cash trades with people I don't know for this reason, and stick to trades via bank accounts only with people I've traded with many times before and built up trust with. Bonus being that once you've traded with someone enough I don't even go through an exchange anymore for a handful of contacts - I can just send them a message privately and we can arrange a peer to peer trade in 60 seconds.

I've never been challenged when depositing cash at a bank, but the story I would use is that I simply sold a few of my possessions for cash, which is completely true.

Granted, I didn't feel comfortable knowing what my full name and IBAN would be given to the seller that may be gathering information regarding my purchases, but I guess that is something that I have to life with. I do prefer that scenario when compared to one where I have to trust a CEX to fully guard my information and not to sell my data to whoever pays more.

I think that this sums up the importance of Bisq and where it shines - a safer option to buy BTC in a world where almost all the big players in the market will try their best to profit from you and your BTC purchases. Between Bisq and Robosats[1] I can safely say that I won't use CEX any time soon ...

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[1]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/review-robosats-bitcoin-lightning-on-off-ramp-no-kyc-p2p-tor-5405549

Yes. KYC in 2022 is inevitable, and it isn't the direct problem either. The thing I like about Bisq is this dedicated to bitcoin part of my life that it keeps private. If I had to sign up to every CEX here and there, I'd have revealed to both the bank and the CEX how much money I have in bitcoin.

But, that's probably what they do until you make a transaction with someone who launders some serious amounts of money, part of which you don't know when you exchange at Bisq (and it shouldn't concern you either, but it does concern the bank).

The only time my bank has called to ask me about a transaction is when I'm buying bitcoin with Zelle, but the funny thing it is when they did call it was because of a relatively small amount compared to other transactions.  I just tell them it's for "general transaction" and don't give them any more details about why I'm sending Joe Schmoe money.


Banks aren't going to give you an account without KYC, and I don't mind either.  If I'm selling bitcoin I will pay capitol gains tax on my proceeds, and likewise claim a loss if I have to sell for less than my purchase price.  So linking my KYC to deposits into my bank account doesn't bother me.

I don't know when / why they ask; as far as I know it's for large amounts relative to what you're usually transacting. So if you're ordering expensive stuff every month and add a similarly expensive Bitcoin buy, it won't probably 'trigger' anything.

I'm not sure whether you're allowed to just deny replying and what happens if you do; if they suspect money laundering, they don't question you to report you, but to safeguard themselves, so you be the judge about what you think makes sense to tell them..

Yes, exactly; I wanted to emphasize though, that opening bank and exchange accounts left and right, means you'll run a higher risk of getting your KYC data leaked and getting all sorts of problems (impersonation, deanonymization, ...) outside of Bitcoin, too.

With Bisq, you don't need to open one more KYC account of any kind, if you already have a SEPA bank account.

My only concern is if / when the bank asks me to justify what I bought / sold in a specific transaction. They already do it for large amounts, it's called bank secrecy act. I'm not going to sell over 10k in one transaction, but don't banks question the user a little bit arbitrarily? Who tells me they won't do it if I sell regularly small amounts, or that they won't lower the limit?

Just a note about KYC: I don't mind much to have KYC submitted to my national bank, as long as my Bitcoin identity is hidden. What I want is privacy regarding whom I send bitcoin, how much bitcoin I have, how much money I cash out for bitcoin, how much bitcoin I cash out for fiat etc., generally bitcoin activity must hold no connection with any institution.

Do keep in mind that 99.99% of people will never live a life without a bank account.
Since trades are P2P, the bank won't know what you bought with / sold for that bank transfer, and through mixing, the trading partner won't know what you did / will do with the coins.

Besides the fact that you still need to have a bank account and therefore share your KYC information with 1 bank, it's an almost perfectly private on- & off-ramp.

Also keep in mind that privacy protection laws in the EU (GDPR) mean that you may want to look into having bank accounts with established banks situated in the EU instead of sketchy startup banks located somewhere else.
These laws give you the legal right to both (1) get access to any of your data they store(d) and (2) have it deleted immediately. These rights aren't for granted and don't exist outside the EU (to my knowledge).

Correct - if you're using Bisq to avoid KYC, trading through a bank transfer, or a fintech who emulates that, kind of defeats the whole purpose of using Bisq as an onramp or offramp.

Too bad there's no foolproof way to determine each financial service's regulatory compliance, inasmuch as they don't sell out your documents to 3rd parties.

Privacy invasion is inevitable, unless you're willing to pay for the protection of a F2F trade (if there's F2F trade available at your region). Even if you do, with this minimum liquidity, you're going to be charged by hell of a lot. From a quick Bisq search, the only available F2F offer is made by someone in Spain, and he's charging ~€26,500 for a bitcoin, which means +50% than the market value. 

The best you can do, both effectively and practically, to gain some privacy on your peer-to-peer trades, is to mix.

I believe people can open bank accounts in other locations; it's offered by services like TransferWise. That would require to go through KYC though; one of the very things we want to avoid when using Bisq.
On the other hand, the bank you already have / use also has your KYC details.

If you want to go fully bank-less, make sure to receive your paycheck in BTC and / or cash and then do Bisq F2F (cash in hand) trades only.

One of the important things you have to keep in mind about Bisq is that the approved electronic payment methods are largely selected to enhance the safety of the seller.  I reckon privacy is also a prioritized consideration, but I believe safety is higher priority.  As you mentioned there will always be a trace of evidence that could link you to a transaction, even if that trace is purely circumstantial in nature.

I tend to agree that f2f cash trades are likely to provide the most privacy, but in this day and age it would be pretty darn difficult to ensure anonymity.  Unless you left all electronic devices at home, including your modern car, there will be some circumstantial evidence of your presence, potentially linking you to a trade that took place.

Personally I use Zelle to buy and sell using Bisq.  There is a leak of personal data, but in my case it's only my real name and the email address or phone number that's linked to my Zelle account.  No bank data is leaked to the trade partner.  Privacy is maintained by the fact that all the data required to conduct a trade on Bisq is stored on your local machine, and is only made available to your trade partner while a trade is active.  You don't have to worry about your data being leaked or hacked from a centralized server because none of your personal data is stored on any servers.  The only link to your "account" that exists on a Bisq server is the Tor address that you've been assigned by your local client.