Topic: Hackers and their use of mixing services - page 2. (Read 743 times)

It's an excerpt from their 2020 Crime report. They said they'll release the full version late this month. You can subscribe to their mailing list if you wan tto get a copy. I guess that's where they will include all the details you are looking for.

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Yes, I was hoping someone would also point this out as I was also wondering how they were able to come up with the figures.

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I already had this thought even before I applied for the campaign. As I mentioned in my previous reply, I consider wallets with coinjoin features and mixing services as mere tools that are both available to legit users and hackers. I was thinking of the same knife analogy mentioned by @Slow death

You might be sending mixed (no pun intended) messages by both promoting a mixing service in your signature at this time and also posting observations about how those same services can be used for evil instead of niceness...

No one will be hacked and no will be scammed if we tighten our security level and also those weak exchanges should high their security level, that is our responsibility. So we blame Bitcoin mixer because we feel that they are helping hackers to hide their identity, no, that is the wrong perception. Many things might be abused but Bitcoin mixing isn’t for fraudsters. The purpose of having Bitcoin mixing are these, for the privacy, security, and convenience of using it.

But the fact no one will become pseudo-anonymous transactions now, Yes, bitcoin transactions can be tracked.

I do not really agree with you that the mixers have a minimum amount of limits to mix the coins. These mixers can even mix larger amount of coins instantly. There is not a single mixer for which the hacker has to rely onto to mix his coins each day in some intervals, but instead there are a number of mixers which would allow the hacker to mix all his coins in a single day and keep on mixing them until they leave no track behind.

This has attracted a lot of hackers and scammers into the field of blockchain as they feel these transactions are secure for them. There some be some aid for this problem. This is what keeps bitcoins or any other cryptocurreny far away from getting legalized.

This type of article is very funny... when someone invented the knife I believe that the person invented the knife for people cut food. But how many times we watch news that someone took a knife and killed other people?? People created a mixer to promote privacy of other people, if someone uses it to commit a crime, I believe that the blame should not be on the mixer, the fault is of the person who uses the mixer for bad things

It's not quite as simple as that, though. If you want to refuse to accept stolen coins, then for every deposit you accept, other than highly publicized media cases, you are going to have perform blockchain analysis on it to ascertain who deposited it and where it came from, which defeats the entire point in the first place. It also sets the precedent that you may refuse coins which are deposited to your service if you ascertain them to be "tainted" in some way. That all defeats the very point of a mixing service. I'm not doing anything illegal, but I'm certainly not going to use a mixer if I know they are spending time trying to analyze my deposits and identify my coins.

Exactly. Whenever governments or corporations try to "ban encryption" or some other such nonsense, such as Facebook putting backdoors in to WhatsApp so they/law enforcement can still read all your messages despite their "end to end encryption" lie, I always make the same argument: Only the stupidest of criminals are going to communicate on a platform they know is being monitored. They will simply move to other platforms, or in some cases, build their own. Both Al-Qaeda and ISIS were known to build their own encrypted messaging software, and the initial developer of TrueCrypt was a drug cartel leader. It's cliche, but if you make privacy illegal, then only criminals will have privacy. The same is true of mixers and other bitcoin privacy services. Criminals are always going to find ways to cover their tracks and launder money. If you make coinjoin or mixing illegal, then only innocent people suffer.

People tend to always focus on the negative aspect of mixing and whatnot, while they completely forget that the same privacy hackers enjoy, is also beneficial to all of us normal folks. Criminals use what they deem useful (Bitcoin, cash, gift cards, prepaid debit cards, Gold, etc) and whatever they deem useful is also useful to us. In that regard, I'm not bothered at all by articles like this.

I'm very much looking forward to how upgrades such as Schnorr will change mixing in general. It shouldn't come as a surprise that authorities won't like to see such advancements in Bitcoin because it took them years to get to the point they are today, so imagine how long it will take to catch up this time with much more privacy enhancing functionalities baked into Bitcoin.

I think this study is a great example of how many hoops individuals have to go through to launder money with BTC. For sure there is no denying that it's a convenient way to move funds from point A to point B as it can be done online, but in order to convert it to hard cash, parties that might not have legitimate intentions continue to pay a price for it and commit even more criminal acts on the way. There's no wonder that scammers still ask for victims to pay them in gift cards. Those closed systems wouldn't even allow for research like the one done in this case, so we can't even have an accurate estimate of how much money is scammed through iTune cards for example.

Printed cash remains convenient to transfer "bad money" and is still in many ways even better for these specific purposes. Bitcoin really doesn't introduce many innovations to money laundering. In the past, criminals would use forged documents to utilize a network of so called "money mule" bank accounts to avoid traceability, this way allowing to launder money even through banks. The extent at which banks were actually putting on efforts to stop them is unknown.

A very characteristic example, is that this very technique, along with offshore banks was used to 'hide' transfers of USD 1bn into Malaysia's ex PM personal accounts. That money was outright stolen from the nation's people as part of one of the world's biggest corruption schemes ever. Mind you, this is a scheme that Deutche Bank and Goldman Sachs executives, along with several Swiss banks were also involved in.

Long story short, because analysis of this type can lead to quite politicized conclusions, I'd like to point out that maybe media like to talk about an association between hackers and bitcoin. With BTC that label is only put on because of traceability. Banks are also known to handle bad money and once such funds get into the banking system, the world effectively loses track of how much value goes through it or where it goes.

Also, to comment on the release in specific: Isn't it a little weird how they're tracking such a big increase from one year to another for mixing? I get a feeling that the scope of this research might be a little narrow... Not to blame them, it's a vast amount of data an parameters, but I doubt they had comparable data to indicate a reliable increase from year to year.

Edit for spelling.

Correct and it's an smart act for them to use that up since if there's no trace no people will be sued that's why I'm other hand I will agree for authorities if they will take down those services since it's not really helpful for people especially if they fell for the hackers hand and this should be address since mixer is not actually helping innocent people since their platforms has been used for certain abuse.

The blog linked in the OP says that Lazarus Group (referenced in the OP chart) specifically was using CoinJoin more frequently. The analysis does not break down a mixer verses CJ transactions.

I haven't seen any of the data that Chainalysis used/looked at, but I presume Lazarus started using Wasabi Wallet, and is comfortable with its privacy. If this is true, they are probably comfortable with the privacy from Wasabi when all outputs are equal, except each person's change. 

Fact!

Just surprised on why people do still get shocked about mixer being used on illegal way/launder money.Its nothing new for hackers
to use up the services.Of course, they do know that they can utilize mixing service for the tracks to be erased.Who would be the one
would be carelessly using up gateways for them to be traced up?Of course ,none!

Zyklon B which is a chemical invented for pest control in agricultural fields and factories which later used for genocide during World War II by Nazis. https://www.thevintagenews.com/2015/12/09/10-deadly-inventions-in-history/
The things that we must understand is every system has its good and bad effects. Mixing sites are good for people who want to keep their financial activities secret from prying eyes; it's being used by hackers and for that reason, it won't be a good idea if we stand against mixing- just saying.
There are some exchanges who run mixing service as well; no certain info but it's possible.

Either way, you can't stop hackers to hide themselves. We have Monero where "No transaction without privacy" & other privacy coins as well which can't be traced.

Good to see my article has been suggested 

When I've raised this possibility people have often come back saying mixers should not 'judge' which i think is total balls.

You can be a privacy believer and facilitator and not be a fan of enabling thieves to operate and escape. If I ran one any directly traceable stolen funds would be going straight back along with instructions as to where to ram their monies.

This. Unfortunately, for almost every single technology that was created since the dawn of humanity, there's always immoral and unethical people that will take advantage of it in a negative manner. Cars being used as getaway vehicles, the world wide web being used to spread false info and propaganda, cameras to take unsolicited photos, the list goes on and on and on. Bitcoin and privacy solutions like mixers are just newer examples.

Yes of course. These services are merely tools that are available for both regular users and hackers.

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True that. Bitcoin + mixers/coinjoin (and privacy coins), however, made it easier and faster for hackers/criminals to move funds around in a private manner.     

The problem here I think is that, compared to internet/cash/cars, authorities finds it harder to track the activities of these criminals using crypto + mixers/coinjoin. That's why they have been going hard after these kinds of services and other privacy coins. Remember bestmixer, FATF & travel rule, publications against crypto & mixers, etc...

It's is rather unfortunate that regular users are also affected because of criminal activities.

I've already think that this would happen a few years back, however they can't mixed a large amount of stolen bitcoin since for what I've known mixers only have a minimum amount to be mixed a day.

But this is the first time I heard that it was really used by the hackers, well maybe I just didn't focused on news that's why maybe I missed some news regarding this kind of matter and if this is the case I don't think we're be able to track them down.

My bad. Sometimes i kind of confuse two mixers whenever I see either of the two domains 
Thanks for the correction, I guess my eyes are now tired.

No, he is right,

Bitmixer.io shut down voluntarily
Bestmixer.io was seized by the Dutch FIOD.

Bitmixer didn't voluntarily stop their operation, their domain was actually seized by authorities meaning they had already been under investigation for a while... I am thinking you meant Bitblender.io who suddenly shutdown business at around the same period of time.

Also, most of the popular exchange hacks happened in the second half of the 2019. The most notable being the binance hack where the said hacked bitcoins ended up being bombarded into chipmixer

Criminals will always be attracted to any service which enhances user privacy, and mixers, coinjoin, KYCless exchanges, etc. are no different. The same holds true in the non-crypto world. Even something as fundamental as basic encryption, while allowing the entire internet to function, also allows criminal to communicate securely. The most privacy respecting way of spending fiat - simple physical cash - is also the preferred method of criminals.

Rubbishing a legitimate product or service because some criminals misuse it is a backwards way of thinking. Criminals use the internet. Criminals use cash. Criminals use getaway cars. Do we rally against the internet, cash, or cars? Of course not. It is especially concerning when the product in question - such as a mixer - is designed to improve the privacy of normal users. If we ban or make illegal services like VPNs, Tor, coinjoin, end-to-end encrypted communication, and so forth, criminals will still use them. It is only the honest users who will suffer.