Hardfork = Mitosis - page 5. | Bitcointalksearch.org

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: Cuidler on July 27, 2016, 04:11:15 PM

Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 27, 2016, 03:47:47 PM

Why do you think the trolls are banned from this forum? If they had their way, bitcoin would have already broken into hundreds of hardfork altcoins...

You giving too much importance to this forum. Banning spammers might just help this forum to be readable better, but it can not have much impact on preventing broking Bitcoin into hundreds of altcoins via hardforks... The reason is it is not so easy to have two chains sustainable longterm, you need good support from people for both chains so these can exist longterm, otherwise one chain simply gets forgotten after some time no matter if someone continues mining it.

Ok lets just agree to disagree for now, and watch what happens to ETH and ETC, it is a live example of this situation.

And we shall see then who is right and who is wrong.

Cuidler

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 27, 2016, 03:47:47 PM

Why do you think the trolls are banned from this forum? If they had their way, bitcoin would have already broken into hundreds of hardfork altcoins...

You giving too much importance to this forum. Banning spammers might just help this forum to be readable better, but it can not have much impact on preventing broking Bitcoin into hundreds of altcoins via hardforks... The reason is it is not so easy to have two chains sustainable longterm, you need good support from people for both chains so these can exist longterm, otherwise one chain simply gets forgotten after some time no matter if someone continues mining it.

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: Cuidler on July 27, 2016, 03:40:48 PM

Your 50-50% and the supply of bitcoin doubling is simply nonsence. After first halving, there were few who hard forked and continued mining blocks with 50 BTC reward. Where are they today? How popular is their chain ? And most importantly, did it even doubled the Bitcoin supply ?

First of all, back then there were only a few hundred people, now there are millions of people.

Harder to persuade millions of people than a few hundred (especially if we play this politics game now)

Imagine convincing your neighbors vs convincing your country of something.

The difficulty is larger with more people, because the entropy grows and you need to use more and more force to counter that.

Why do you think the trolls are banned from this forum? If they had their way, bitcoin would have already broken into hundreds of hardfork altcoins...

Everyone with their silly ideas, how stupid is this political game and infighting...

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: rizzlarolla on July 27, 2016, 03:26:42 PM

Eth block time and retarget is completely different?

There is no 2 week difficulty adjustment in Bitcoin. It is ever 2016 blocks mined.
3% hash would take 5 hours to mine 1 block. (at 1mb, fees would be astronomical, mempool full, you would not get in, ever, on average)

2016 blocks == 2 weeks with current mining power.

Of course if the hardfork happens just 1 day before the difficulty adjustment, then its a worse.

Plus it only takes 1 big miner to support the fork until the difficulty changes, and then it becomes self sustaining.

Yes in bitcoin it's easier to maintain the majority status quo, but a dissenting fork could still happen.

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 27, 2016, 02:17:04 PM

There are always dissidents, even if the top mining farms agree on hardfork and say 3% of the network doesn't.

The small miners will mine the old chain, because the difficulty will be low there once the big guys get out, and then slowly the miners will come back there because the diffuculty drop incentive as more and more support goes there.

Eventually it will settle at 50-50%, the supply of bitcoin doubles, and your money will be worth half as it was previously. Enjoy that...

Your 50-50% and the supply of bitcoin doubling is simply nonsence. After first halving, there were few who hard forked and continued mining blocks with 50 BTC reward. Where are they today? How popular is their chain ? And most importantly, did it even doubled the Bitcoin supply ?

If it was as simple as you describe it, Bitcoin would be already worth almost nothing as every hard fork from small group of people would create long lasting chain somehow mysteriously settling at equeal popularity and everytime reducting the Bitcoin market cap by half. How clever attack! Except it doesnt work this way...

rizzlarolla

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 27, 2016, 02:38:45 PM

Quote from: rizzlarolla on July 27, 2016, 02:31:46 PM

Mining difficulty will not be low. I think that is your fundamental flaw here.
With 3% hash power it will take forever to mine a block.
You can trade all you want on that chain. You will never receive your "bitcoin".

What? That is nonsense. If the big guys leave the old chain and join the new chain, then the old bitcoin's difficulty will drop to CPU mining levels.

Everyone could just grab their CPU or GPU card and start mining bitcoin again without ASICS.

The old chain would literally be like bitcoin in 2010.

There is of course 2 week period for diffuculty adjustment, so the forkers have 2 week to stabilize their chain. Which I doubt is enough time to do it.

Just watch ETH classic and see yourself, in ETH the difficulty retarget interval is literally 15 seconds.

Eth block time and retarget is completely different?

There is no 2 week difficulty adjustment in Bitcoin. It is ever 2016 blocks mined.
3% hash would take 5 hours to mine 1 block. (at 1mb, fees would be astronomical, mempool full, you would not get in, ever, on average)

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: rizzlarolla on July 27, 2016, 02:31:46 PM

Mining difficulty will not be low. I think that is your fundamental flaw here.
With 3% hash power it will take forever to mine a block.
You can trade all you want on that chain. You will never receive your "bitcoin".

What? That is nonsense. If the big guys leave the old chain and join the new chain, then the old bitcoin's difficulty will drop to CPU mining levels.

Everyone could just grab their CPU or GPU card and start mining bitcoin again without ASICS.

The old chain would literally be like bitcoin in 2010.

There is of course 2 week period for diffuculty adjustment, so the forkers have 2 week to stabilize their chain. Which I doubt is enough time to do it.

Just watch ETH classic and see yourself, in ETH the difficulty retarget interval is literally 15 seconds.

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 27, 2016, 02:17:04 PM

Quote from: Yakamoto on July 27, 2016, 02:13:35 PM

Assuming that everyone switches to one of the chains and ditches the other one, your money wouldn't be halved by definition because the other chain becomes defunct because no-one is using it at all.

Wrong assumption.

There are always dissidents, even if the top mining farms agree on hardfork and say 3% of the network doesn't.

The small miners will mine the old chain, because the difficulty will be low there once the big guys get out, and then slowly the miners will come back there because the diffuculty drop incentive as more and more support goes there.

Eventually it will settle at 50-50%, the supply of bitcoin doubles, and your money will be worth half as it was previously. Enjoy that...

Mining difficulty will not be low. I think that is your fundamental flaw here.
With 3% hash power it will take forever to mine a block.
You can trade all you want on that chain. You will never receive your "bitcoin".

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: Yakamoto on July 27, 2016, 02:13:35 PM

Assuming that everyone switches to one of the chains and ditches the other one, your money wouldn't be halved by definition because the other chain becomes defunct because no-one is using it at all.

Wrong assumption.

There are always dissidents, even if the top mining farms agree on hardfork and say 3% of the network doesn't.

The small miners will mine the old chain, because the difficulty will be low there once the big guys get out, and then slowly the miners will come back there because the diffuculty drop incentive as more and more support goes there.

Eventually it will settle at 50-50%, the supply of bitcoin doubles, and your money will be worth half as it was previously. Enjoy that...

Yakamoto

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 27, 2016, 02:01:24 PM

Quote from: rizzlarolla on July 27, 2016, 01:58:30 PM

Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 27, 2016, 01:34:49 PM

Updated the OP with Ethereum fiasco hardfork.

Do you really want the same to happen with bitcoin? I hope not. So hardforks are unthinkable!

You got no idea. That's ok, you fit in here.. Bitcointalk.
You have declared yourself "RealBitcoin" Bullshite.
"NXT is the best altcoin", now replaced by "free market capitalist". More bullshite.

As has been said, Mitosis is nothing like a Bitcoin hard fork.
Eth is nothing like Btcoin.
The reason for an ETH hard fork is nothing like a block size increase in Bitcoin.

Your uninformed opinion is irrelevant to a miner led Bitcoin hard fork.

Yea and what do you do when there will be 42,000,000 BTC in circulation because bitcoin splits in 2, so your money is worth half?

Assuming that everyone switches to one of the chains and ditches the other one, your money wouldn't be halved by definition because the other chain becomes defunct because no-one is using it at all.

I agree that hard forks should be avoided when possible, but they do have their uses for fixing things with the technology of the blockchain if there is an issue. All that is required is everyone changing chains.

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: rizzlarolla on July 27, 2016, 01:58:30 PM

Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 27, 2016, 01:34:49 PM

Updated the OP with Ethereum fiasco hardfork.

Do you really want the same to happen with bitcoin? I hope not. So hardforks are unthinkable!

You got no idea. That's ok, you fit in here.. Bitcointalk.
You have declared yourself "RealBitcoin" Bullshite.
"NXT is the best altcoin", now replaced by "free market capitalist". More bullshite.

As has been said, Mitosis is nothing like a Bitcoin hard fork.
Eth is nothing like Btcoin.
The reason for an ETH hard fork is nothing like a block size increase in Bitcoin.

Your uninformed opinion is irrelevant to a miner led Bitcoin hard fork.

Yea and what do you do when there will be 42,000,000 BTC in circulation because bitcoin splits in 2, so your money is worth half?

rizzlarolla

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 27, 2016, 01:34:49 PM

Updated the OP with Ethereum fiasco hardfork.

Do you really want the same to happen with bitcoin? I hope not. So hardforks are unthinkable!

You got no idea. That's ok, you fit in here.. Bitcointalk.
You have declared yourself "RealBitcoin" Bullshite.
"NXT is the best altcoin", now replaced by "free market capitalist". More bullshite.

As has been said, Mitosis is nothing like a Bitcoin hard fork.
Eth is nothing like Btcoin.
The reason for an ETH hard fork is nothing like a block size increase hard fork in Bitcoin.

Your uninformed opinion is irrelevant to a miner led Bitcoin hard fork.

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: hv_ on July 27, 2016, 01:46:55 PM

Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 27, 2016, 01:34:49 PM

Updated the OP with Ethereum fiasco hardfork.

Do you really want the same to happen with bitcoin? I hope not. So hardforks are unthinkable!

Hm. How much time ETH tubbies gave them?

Comparing gold with fisher price?

The ETH hardfork was very rushed and the code was not tested well enough.

I would not be surprized if some new bugs will happen and they would have to hardfork again.

It is just a mess, if you break unity once, its impossible to recover after.

However ETH was flawed from the start, so it's hard to take sides there.

purebitco

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Quote from: adamstgBit on July 21, 2016, 02:44:24 PM

ETH just had a HF, and ETH Classic is still alive, but ETH's value has not halved. ( not yet anyway )

let's keep watching...

i think that the price of eth will soon start going down and the price of etc is going to go up a lot and make me some money because i hold etc

hv_

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Clean Code and Scale

Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 27, 2016, 01:34:49 PM

Updated the OP with Ethereum fiasco hardfork.

Do you really want the same to happen with bitcoin? I hope not. So hardforks are unthinkable!

Hm. How much time ETH tubbies gave them?

Comparing gold with fisher price?

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: Almagro on July 27, 2016, 01:37:47 PM

the majority already has to be in place for it to happen. the loser's gonna wither in no time at all apart from weird little bunches of holdouts. if the majority choose to go down that road then there's no way they're popping back any time soon.

There are always dissidents.

You cannot have democracy with 100% approval, because that is not democracy by definition.

So the only way to win the fork election with 100% approval is not have one.

Almagro

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the majority already has to be in place for it to happen. the loser's gonna wither in no time at all apart from weird little bunches of holdouts. if the majority choose to go down that road then there's no way they're popping back any time soon.

RealBitcoin

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Updated the OP with Ethereum fiasco hardfork.

Do you really want the same to happen with bitcoin? I hope not. So hardforks are unthinkable!

hv_

legendary

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Clean Code and Scale

The genius solution is having code working at smallest line count & easy to read + open to anybody to understand.

To me this is exact such an example for a 'genius solution':

Remove that line (restricting the block size) and open the bitcoin protocol for ANY type of scaling, we will need them ALL! The 21Mio limit is all we need.

Think big and deal with it in more prof way like the entire internet protocols that 'could not scale' before but have done mostly fine because other ways where found at the right time.

Adoption is all about and HTTP-, eMail- , whatsApp- and Bitcoin- traffic needs to be as cheap as possible to win that game.

Edit
Wondering if theres any reply on that

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4tvw5y/hardforks_did_you_know/d5lqudl

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Quote from: pereira4 on July 23, 2016, 01:00:53 PM

Lmao true. This guy lives here to shitpost about blockstream and core devs, and also to give us a lesson in how to scale decentralized networks. If only he spent all that time actually coding instead of talking about it, maybe he would have any relevance, but he doesn't that's why Core devs are the best and keep doing all the hard work while slackers complain.

ok here is your chance.. please dont back away dont shy away.

you love bitcoin-core devs, you love blockstream. and luke Jr is in both of those. so you must by admission love him.
so here is the question.

when luke Jr releases MAX_BLOCK_BASE_SIZE = 2000000; version of bitcoin-core. will you accept it and treat the controversy as over.. or will you kick lukeJr to the curb?

Topic: Hardfork = Mitosis - page 5. (Read 5736 times)