Topic: Has anyone reported bitcoin capital gains or losses on their taxes? - page 4. (Read 12658 times)

Don't feed the troll.

Since you're apparently unable to participate in a conversation as a mature and rational individual, you do not warrant humour or respect from me. The ineptly ignorant ridicule from you has been dismissed. Now, you're just a fun target to rile up.

Here's the fully-valid rationale for your edification: Bitcoin is a world-wide phenomenon and there are those who read this forum without knowing English as their native language. Spend time with people from various non English-speaking countries and you'll notice that certain idioms and idiosyncrasies might not be so easily understood by those from other cultures. Your own ignorance and closed-mindedness is on display. What have you contributed to this discussion?

Assuming everyone knows what a certain phrase means is asinine, as was your feeble attempt at being funny. You don't seem to think there's a reason for certain items that might seem of dubious import to you, even though none of it was explicitly for you. I'll translate that into something moronic enough for you to hopefully understand: "hurr durr, no1 uze lnks 4 nethng i thnk iz obveus or i cal u a DUM!"

Neither of us have talked with each other, but the first thing you do is throw out ad hominem attacks when you haven't a clue what your target's reasoning is? Grab your foot and shove it all the way down your throat like the phallus-swallowing douche you are. The approach you followed is the same as insulting a random person on the street, expecting him to either instantly turn into your buddy or cower in the presence of your petty tyranny. Try that with me in person, if you can manage to get your swollen ass out of your parents' basement.

Use the right term to describe yourself: you're not worthy of being called an asshole - you're a little bitch. You mad bro? Maybe you should punch your computer, since you don't use it for anything worthwhile. Get a life that involves more than terrible efforts at bad jokes or just go play a dating game.

I'm smiling while letting a custom natural language processor designed for my graduate computer science course run through this thread. You're so worthless, even the algorithm is rating your text: inconsequential fail.

There - you've received a reply that's stooped to your communication level, so there's no way I can further explain your retarded actions. Do you really want to continue this? I don't - it's as vile as you.

You don't get it, still? I was making fun of your linking the dictionary definition of a phrase that was completely stupid and irrelevant.  I was making fun of your irrelevant linking.

This place turns me into a total asshole, because you people are just so, so stupid.

The only stupid thing I've done in this thread is reply to you after having seen your persistently childish replies elsewhere. Maybe that's the only form of communication you understand?

Your links are to sites that are irrelevant to the topic; pictures of faces and balls, the latter of which you don't seem to have, hiding behind ridicule as your only replies. I provided links to information that supports what I've said. Where's the substance to your argument?


A shame, you don't have the decency to be civil or even support your position. Enjoying your trolling?

Ignorance regarding the history of government actions during crises means you need an education (oh, look - more relevant information). If you had one, you'd be aware of the rapidly growing potential for wholesale confiscation of assets by government and the dangers that precedent promotes. Have fun when your neighbor reports you as a terrorist after a dispute...

I won't be expecting a reply with any backing of value, only more insults; but it's still nice to hope fools might grow a brain someday. If you're under 30 years of age, you can be excused for being young & dumb. If you're over 30 and still this immature, well - you're just pathetic. Either way, I don't have time for stagnant minds. Bye.

For anyone else with an interest in freedom and moving forward instead of struggling in a dying system, hopefully you gained something from this thread; there's a world of opportunity out there.

I don't even have to say anything to make you look stupid. Go back and click on all my references. I'm sure you'll see their relevance if you spend a little time thinking about it.


I would argue that your arguments are moot if you didn't exist. Go back to school.

Stop using banks then you wont have to worry about the tax man. Find a local source to give you cash for your btc or buy gold with your btc then sell the gold privately.

Bitcoins aint none of the tax mans buisness anyway imho.

If i had the capital i would give you cash for your BTC or gold, But the way gold is skyrocketing right now you might be better off hanging onto gold (if you have any that is)

Ad hominem. Again, immature; defensive ridicule is the sign of a lazy mind. If you can't defend your position logically, it's better to not say anything at all.


Yes, it was intended as such. Many laws are pointless as well, only serving to cover up mistakes (or sometimes intentional "errors") that generally introduce additional riders which produce more problems than they solve.

Your rebuttal is just a different perspective; I offer that there would be no hole if the present tax system did not exist. I futher suggest that the present tax system is destructive and has built a byzantine morass of legislation that obfuscates the legitimate utilization of taxpayer wealth while precluding meaningful reform. Therefore, unless tax system bloat in most of today's nations is torn down to a point of stability, additional changes will serve to disguise and exacerbate the root problem while trapping the citizenry in an escalating cost-basis.

There was no suggestion that it already has been taken advantage of, only that it could be. Your assertion that there is no hole is tenuous because, as mentioned above, any law at higher levels rests upon prior legislation that may be mis- or re-interpreted by judicial decree. Indeed, there have been many instances of politicians proposing "solutions" that benefit only themselves or a lobbying interest, and judicial decisions that have overturned prior rulings.

The relevant quote:


Moving on...



As entertaining as the fight video was, including a few more informative links would help. Perhaps an analysis of the 30-day rule or a study on entropy.

Anyway, good example. Windows was riddled with security holes and bloat; instead of fixing the underlying codebase, additional features were heaped on. Microsoft finally deciding to take the correct steps to remedy that situation: the entire platform was audited, heavily redesigned and cleaned up. Much of it was simplified and standardized throughout, much more so than before. That also allowed for cleaner implementation of newer features and more reliable updates to existing ones.

Isomorphisms abound: whether "destructive greed" from political corruption or malware, the end result is damage. Mitigating that is not done by obscuring the core, but by redesigning it with updated techniques that fundamentally strengthen it. I agree that complexity alone does not lead to failure, so long as the overall system is stable; complexity built from a faulty or damaged base increases the potential for collapse. If an unstable base is not addressed, adding patches to it counter-intuitively destabilizes the system further instead of helping.

Since western nations have settled into a habitual pattern of adding complexity by way of attempts at legislating problems out of existence, the underlying decay will force a familiar pattern of behavior which involves surreptitious theft until blatant abuse of power becomes the only option available to maintain existing governments. We have seen the early stages of that with bank bailouts since the 1980s and recent nationalization of certain major corporations. Those are the easy targets - individual citizens are in the crosshairs, but will be persuaded to offer themselves up by the the millions, only to be devoured by their respective nations.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." ~George Santayana


Rationalization is not reason. Nor is self-aggrandizement and/or proclamation of "success" a certification of reputability.



If you have a particular area of expertise and would like to discuss concepts, I'd be glad to learn and share ideas. A flame-war isn't productive.

Ahaha, I was totally just taking a potshot. You are insane.


It was a pointless tautology. Here: "It was patched, because there was a hole." The wash sale law hasn't led to another hole. You're falsely implying it has, and by extension, all additions to the tax code do. This is a faulty argument.


Yes, this is perfectly rational. Maybe we should go back to Windows 95, because, you know, plugging security breaches has just been a failed fight with entropy.   (Wrong, it's been a failed fight with destructive greed that, sometimes successfully, sometimes not, constantly looks for weaknesses). Again, I see nothing to suggest that complexity necessarily implies more failure.


Happy to be reasoned, successful, and also love calling you an idiot.

Insults are juvenile and history is replete with examples of taxation creating domestic slavery.

A familiar example is taxation without representation. Slavery is "a civil relationship whereby one person has absolute power over another and controls his life, liberty, and fortune" - any citizen of a nation that can incarcerate its own without due process of law, and confiscate or freeze assets with the same lack of procedure, is granted the privilege of autonomy which can be revoked at any time. This is not freedom based on personal responsibility, and the argument that it's for the citizens' own "safety" suggests that all are guilty until proven innocent.

Taxation is nothing more than a usage fee for services rendered. However, there is a threshold beyond which taxation is forced, regardless of the quality provided or even which services are offered. There is sufficient infrastructure and technology available today to fully eliminate monolithic government and heavy-handed, illegitimate financial imposition.


So instead of one point of failure, there will be multiple points of failure; fixing one problem creates others. Fighting entropy demands simplicity, not complexity.

Governments eventually become massive points of failure. They both make laws and enforce them. They collect wealth from the populations they govern. They direct the police and militia, lending further ability to enforce laws and collect taxes irrespective of any other factors.

Controlling a government means the entire nation is owned; in the case of Europe and the US, that ownership is primarily by the major banks.


A hole was dug in the ground because there was no hole? What's the purpose of the hole (tax system)? When blindly following decrees without exercising reason and asking 'why', the activities are meaningless.


I pay reasonable prices based on the quality of goods and services provided, no matter the field or industry involved. There is no need for authoritative taxation to facilitate business and commerce or even contracts and law.

Besides, what government can prosecute on an international scale when there is disparity between national laws, and no basis for taxation from an individual? The only losers are the same politicians who effectively pay no taxes, yet reap the benefits of the systems they govern - supported by you.

What you consider tax fraud, others consider archaic subservience. Would you accept a doctor's prognosis if he reeked of alcohol and were slurring his words, or would you opt for a second opinion? Nations act like drunkards when they're flush with undue amounts of power and influence. I will take my business to sober nations that respect business and the individual rather than intoxicated brutes with penchants for violent outbursts on the warpath against freedom.

If you're unwilling to discuss a topic, even if the end result is arriving at an agreement to disagree, your fate is sealed.


Emotions and patience are among the most difficult things to master. The result of success is a clear sense of reason.

I know this is pointless, because you're one of those "taxation is slavery" idiots, but I'll respond nonetheless.


However many are required to patch loopholes that prevent scamming of the intentions of the tax code. And yes, the intentions are very, very clear, as indicated by the closing of loopholes.


No, a patch for a mess that existed because there was no patch.


There is nothing "inevitable" about it, only that the majority of people (in my country at least) agree that there are aspects of life that get completely, utterly destroyed without law (yeah, taxes pay for judges and police). I'm done arguing this garbage with you. Feel free to skip out on your taxes, and then I hope you are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law by your local law enforcement.


Oh for god's sake. Do any of you idiots read anything? There are two places on that page that say anything about taxes and bitcoin: 1)The title (the taxless currency), and in the tax section: "However while taxes aren't generated by the government, if you buy and sell bitcoins, it becomes taxable income."

Yes, they use the words "honor system," but in the US, income is income, and it is taxable. Paying your income tax, while not enforced 100% (you have to be audited before it's enforced), is still a legal requirement, whether you choose to ignore the law or not. This is what that document means by "honor system": If you murder your neighbor but don't get caught, you're on the honor system to report yourself.

let me amend that, they encourage you to use the honor system in regards to bitcoin, my apologies

http://blog.turbotax.intuit.com/2011/07/18/bitcoins-the-taxless-currency/

turbotax specifically had a blog post which encouraged dodging taxes using bitcoins

So you think the point of bitcoin is tax evasion?

Taxes on bitcoin?
Bwahahaha
That goes against the whole point, as far as I'm concerned.

Of course. I report everything to the IRS. I am a good citizen. I love the IRS. They are a bunch of great guys that get a bad rap.

 

Which country are you going to be reporting in? I'll be sure to avoid it until the backlash forces change.


Key word. Of course, no examples have been made of those using new technologies such as BitTorrent. Attacking and punishing people for using a new technology instead of understanding it and creating a progressive environment is obviously the first step taken, because the middle-men would never fight progress to save themselves.

Government is the ultimate middleman.

All in the name of "fairness" right? Do you think it would be worthwhile to keep all of your gains and make use of them as you see fit, or send them off to any number of governments that have proven more than willing to use your funds to bail out banks and give habitual drug addicts their narcotics and provide tax-free salaries to politicians? What is "fair"?

Governments do good in early stages, when they're manageable. As people relegate more of their responsibilities to a central authority, it builds to a momentum that can no longer be controlled - it becomes destructive.

Anonymity is your first line of defense. Pointing the way to your assets just makes the tax-man's job that much easier.


This isn't directed toward you (in fact, I'm glad to see people making a profit), casascius, but the system itself. Do you see the absurdity? Intentionally taking actions that could produce losses, not for the purpose of progress but just to avoid penalty? What kind of bureaucratic idiocy is that?


Once again: how many conditional variations and rules need to be taken into account just to be sure you're compliant? Which rule open a loophole and caused the problem that created this snowball effect in the first place? Why spend all this extra time figuring out what has to be done when you could just be doing what you're good at? What's the point of even paying someone else to maintain such a bureaucratic monstrosity with your assets simply for the redistribution of your funds to destinations without any decision from you? Isn't that taxation without representation?


Prevention of "wash sales" because of a deficiency in the tax code that created a loophole? What happens if an issue is found with the 30-day rule? Another piece of tax code intended to patch yet another hole in a mess that never had to exist initially? Why?

A peasant serf in the middle ages might have difficulty imagining a democratic republic, thinking the existing system was all that held society together. People today seem to reject the notion of independence and direct democracy, assuming that taxation and centralized government is inevitable. What seems an innocent law today can easily spin out of control, especially with authorities that have already proven their detachment from general society. The existing system does hold the existing society together, but that doesn't mean individuals can't transcend the deranged aspects; many corporations already do. This is also how society evolves.

Keeping most of your BTC balance in the Bitcoin system offers a good amount of protection even if reported. However, playing the authority's tax game is like playing poker against the house. The house always wins in the end. If you're lucky or skilled, you won't go home broke; if you have a home left.

Internationalization using the information available from the links in my earlier post allows even the individual to put governments in their place - to make them work for your money instead of just demanding and taking it. If the rules amount to theft, you can just say no; if they're conducive to reasonable investment, you can put your money to work in their jurisdiction.

It's very simple: look at governments as businesses that need your investment to function. This is the difference between a business like the modern Microsoft (could be equated with Singapore) that provides products (Xbox, research division, etc) which are worthwhile and encourage your investment versus a business like Microsoft pre-Google (who else, the US) that relied on manipulative business practices to create high barriers to competition and foist a deficient product on its customer base, largely ignoring opposition.

If a government offers you a low tax rate or no taxation at all to put your wealth into its financial system, what's bad about that? When another government makes threats, demanding numerous taxes and concessions just for the privilege of being associated with it, where's the benefit?

My overall point is that there is a choice between genuine freedom and an illusion. I'd rather be surrounded by free individuals who understand self-sufficiency and responsibility than those who give up everything and settle for happiness in slavery because it's easier.

Now I'm going back to my post in front of the stock exchange to await a rubber bullet to the face (not really, it won't do much good until the IRS is occupied).

Everyone should here should report their gains/losses just so they can be on point with the law. 

It's not biased, it's to prevent a scam called "wash sales," where you constantly realize and accrue tax credits on downtrends, but only pay once on the uptrend.

I plan to pay my taxes on USD I have gained through Bitcoin (mining and trading)... I plan to just count the income into my bank account as what I made, and deduct the costs of buying BTC and mining them (electricity, equipment, etc.)... which my accountant feels should be reasonable and simple enough.  My accountant doesn't share the opinion that the IRS wants to "stick it" to people dealing in Bitcoin, they ostensibly just want a reasonable and accurate calculation of profits made and taxes paid consistent with the law.  And that where the law is unclear with respect to the new technology, that a reasonable best guess interpretation is made that doesn't blatantly skew toward not paying taxes.

This year, Bitcoin has been a windfall for me, and I can't really hide it (Bloomberg BusinessWeek sort of told the whole world)

As the tax year draws to a close, I have been deliberately incurring expenses which may or may not produce a profit in the end (such as producing physical bitcoins and offering software development bounties) to promote Bitcoin - which I believe I can legitimately deduct as business expenses because they are arguably expenses and efforts incurred to improve the value of BTC I have been holding.

per my accountant, I am advised to BEWARE if I bought BTC earlier in the year, made a profit on it by selling it, bought BTC afterwards, and took a loss.  In the US, according to him, if I don't sell those BTC by the end of the year to "Realize" the loss, AND keep my hands off them for 30 days, I run the risk of being on the hook for capital gains (which become taxable the moment it's sold for a gain) but not able to offset them with the losses (which only get realized if I sell AND DO NOT BUY THEM RIGHT BACK for 30 days).  Instead the capital losses would roll forward from year to year, and I could deduct them later, but only against future capital gains, and/or up to $3,000 per income per year (which could be a long time, or never, if the gains are substantial).  The 30 day rule is biased towards taxing gains: the government is apparently happy to take a piece of my "gains" unconditionally, but will only cut me a break on "losses" under relatively narrow conditions.  Don't get stuck with a scenario where you have both gains and losses but the rules force you to pay on the gains without the benefit of offsetting the losses.

Sucks for you, I guess. I'm reporting my capital gains, regardless. Hope that doesn't ruin the party for you insane lolbertarians. Hilarious link, btw. Content ftw!