Has trading ruined the day for HODLERS?

JimboToronto

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You're never too old to think young.

Quote from: Kluge on November 11, 2014, 09:10:29 PM

I've never really understood what conventional use of "bearish" was supposed to illiterate, anyway. Bears paw it down and bulls uhh... gore it up, maybe?

You made me look it up. Seems you could be right.

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/129.asp

Then again it could be bearskin jobbers and bull/bear-baiters.

Kluge

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Quote from: JimboToronto on November 11, 2014, 08:51:53 PM

LOL thread.

Holders are traders.

They traded when they acquired their coins (unless they mined them which involves trading their hardware investment and electricity for them) and they will trade again when they use them later to purchase beer, t-shirts, fiat currency, laptops, excursions, etc.

I;d guess the most reasonable term for people who hodl for extended periods of time ("long-term traders") would be "bears." They hibernate until the price is dramatically higher than their buy-in and don't wake up even if the price tanks. I've never really understood what conventional use of "bearish" was supposed to illiterate, anyway. Bears paw it down and bulls uhh... gore it up, maybe?

TheTribesman

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Kobocoin - Mobile Money for Africa

Quote from: Elwar on November 09, 2014, 05:03:02 PM

I lost more trading than I have holding.

Ditto. My only issue now is having to sync every once in a while Undecided

JimboToronto

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You're never too old to think young.

LOL thread.

Holders are traders.

They traded when they acquired their coins (unless they mined them which involves trading their hardware investment and electricity for them) and they will trade again when they use them later to purchase beer, t-shirts, fiat currency, laptops, excursions, etc.

DustyRah

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Quote from: Erdogan on November 09, 2014, 01:09:46 PM

The original post is absurd. Traders can not take anything from hodlers.

Traders have created incredible uncertainty and volatility, causing the overall value of Bitcoin to stay low. Spooked hodlers are bailing out is why the price keeps creeping downwards.

ssmc2

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Quote from: dropt on November 09, 2014, 05:00:18 PM

Quote from: orsotheysaid on November 09, 2014, 02:07:27 PM

There are long term holders being scared shitless daily and pulling out their holdings via scary a series of panic sells. Too many panic sells together + actual daytraders make it seem as if it's all day traders fault, but a lot of holders are selling these days.

Days destroyed implies otherwise.

Don't come at him with facts Tongue

Elwar

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Viva Ut Vivas

I lost more trading than I have holding.

dropt

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Quote from: orsotheysaid on November 09, 2014, 02:07:27 PM

There are long term holders being scared shitless daily and pulling out their holdings via scary a series of panic sells. Too many panic sells together + actual daytraders make it seem as if it's all day traders fault, but a lot of holders are selling these days.

Days destroyed implies otherwise.

orsotheysaid

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There are long term holders being scared shitless daily and pulling out their holdings via scary a series of panic sells. Too many panic sells together + actual daytraders make it seem as if it's all day traders fault, but a lot of holders are selling these days.

Erdogan

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The original post is absurd. Traders can not take anything from hodlers.

Soros Shorts

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Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 07:56:51 AM

bitcoin is just a way of transaction, but not a currency itself. Think about it.

The same could be said of the currency of a small country. Have you vacationed in the Dominican Republic? The stuff that tourists buy are priced in Pesos but the prices are synced with the USD exchange rate. However this does not invalidate the Dominican Peso as a currency.

inca

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Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 08:29:28 AM

Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 08:08:11 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 07:56:51 AM

Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 07:47:01 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 07:36:17 AM

It's not used to trade goods and services. Or at least, it's used only marginally for that. Most of it's use comes from speculation, trading other currencies with it, that's why I said it's financial tool, an asset. Bitcoin is a vehicle for transacting other currencies, but it's not a currency itself. It could be a currency, but presently it's certainly not.

Sorry to disagree but it is used to trade goods and services. I buy take away with it once a week. I could buy a new laptop with it on dell, or a hotel on expedia. It is supported by the transactions on the dark web with items priced in bitcoin only.

There is a large component of speculation in the price but i am not sure why that is relevant, given the global forex market which speculates with >4 trillion dollars in currency units exchanged per day, with global gdp being only 100 trillion dollars a year.

When you buy something with it, you're not buying it with bitcoin, but with fiat it represents. Goods are priced in fiat, not in bitcoin. That's why I say it's a tool for transacting a currency. What you're doing is when you buy a laptop you're sending your fiat via bitcoin to a retailer. Purchasing power of bitcoin comes from fiat, bitcoin is just a way of transaction, but not a currency itself. Think about it.

Your argument seems to morph with each rebuttal

Dark web, lol. That's all you got?

No but you ignored everything else when I proved that bitcoin is a currency by your own metrics. Anyway real life intrudes.

DeadCoin

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Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 08:08:11 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 07:56:51 AM

Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 07:47:01 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 07:36:17 AM

It's not used to trade goods and services. Or at least, it's used only marginally for that. Most of it's use comes from speculation, trading other currencies with it, that's why I said it's financial tool, an asset. Bitcoin is a vehicle for transacting other currencies, but it's not a currency itself. It could be a currency, but presently it's certainly not.

Sorry to disagree but it is used to trade goods and services. I buy take away with it once a week. I could buy a new laptop with it on dell, or a hotel on expedia. It is supported by the transactions on the dark web with items priced in bitcoin only.

There is a large component of speculation in the price but i am not sure why that is relevant, given the global forex market which speculates with >4 trillion dollars in currency units exchanged per day, with global gdp being only 100 trillion dollars a year.

When you buy something with it, you're not buying it with bitcoin, but with fiat it represents. Goods are priced in fiat, not in bitcoin. That's why I say it's a tool for transacting a currency. What you're doing is when you buy a laptop you're sending your fiat via bitcoin to a retailer. Purchasing power of bitcoin comes from fiat, bitcoin is just a way of transaction, but not a currency itself. Think about it.

Your argument seems to morph with each rebuttal

Dark web, lol. That's all you got?

inca

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Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 07:56:51 AM

Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 07:47:01 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 07:36:17 AM

It's not used to trade goods and services. Or at least, it's used only marginally for that. Most of it's use comes from speculation, trading other currencies with it, that's why I said it's financial tool, an asset. Bitcoin is a vehicle for transacting other currencies, but it's not a currency itself. It could be a currency, but presently it's certainly not.

Sorry to disagree but it is used to trade goods and services. I buy take away with it once a week. I could buy a new laptop with it on dell, or a hotel on expedia. It is supported by the transactions on the dark web with items priced in bitcoin only.

There is a large component of speculation in the price but i am not sure why that is relevant, given the global forex market which speculates with >4 trillion dollars in currency units exchanged per day, with global gdp being only 100 trillion dollars a year.

When you buy something with it, you're not buying it with bitcoin, but with fiat it represents. Goods are priced in fiat, not in bitcoin. That's why I say it's a tool for transacting a currency. What you're doing is when you buy a laptop you're sending your fiat via bitcoin to a retailer. Purchasing power of bitcoin comes from fiat, bitcoin is just a way of transaction, but not a currency itself. Think about it.

Your argument seems to morph with each rebuttal

DeadCoin

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Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 07:47:01 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 07:36:17 AM

It's not used to trade goods and services. Or at least, it's used only marginally for that. Most of it's use comes from speculation, trading other currencies with it, that's why I said it's financial tool, an asset. Bitcoin is a vehicle for transacting other currencies, but it's not a currency itself. It could be a currency, but presently it's certainly not.

Sorry to disagree but it is used to trade goods and services. I buy take away with it once a week. I could buy a new laptop with it on dell, or a hotel on expedia. It is supported by the transactions on the dark web with items priced in bitcoin only.

There is a large component of speculation in the price but i am not sure why that is relevant, given the global forex market which speculates with >4 trillion dollars in currency units exchanged per day, with global gdp being only 100 trillion dollars a year.

When you buy something with it, you're not buying it with bitcoin, but with fiat it represents. Goods are priced in fiat, not in bitcoin. That's why I say it's a tool for transacting a currency. What you're doing is when you buy a laptop you're sending your fiat via bitcoin to a retailer. Purchasing power of bitcoin comes from fiat, bitcoin is just a way of transaction, but not a currency itself. Think about it.

inca

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Activity: 1176

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Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 07:36:17 AM

It's not used to trade goods and services. Or at least, it's used only marginally for that. Most of it's use comes from speculation, trading other currencies with it, that's why I said it's financial tool, an asset. Bitcoin is a vehicle for transacting other currencies, but it's not a currency itself. It could be a currency, but presently it's certainly not.

Sorry to disagree but it is used to trade goods and services. I buy take away with it once a week. I could buy a new laptop with it on dell, or a hotel on expedia. It is supported by the transactions on the dark web with items priced in bitcoin only.

There is a large component of speculation in the price but i am not sure why that is relevant, given the global forex market which speculates with >4 trillion dollars in currency units exchanged per day, with global gdp being only 100 trillion dollars a year.

TheMasterKey

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Maybe for some, but for the genuine holders , nothing has changed IMO.

DeadCoin

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Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 07:21:49 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 07:08:46 AM

Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 07:01:48 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 06:54:59 AM

Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 06:48:53 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 06:29:34 AM

Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 06:26:44 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 06:21:39 AM

The whole point of bitcoin is to squeeze the most fiat and the most profits out of it. Only bag holders and cultists don't seem to understand that.

I don't think you understand bitcoin at all.

No, you don't. But don't listen to me, you just hodl, while others make money at your expense (I'm talking real money, like dollar, euro, pound)

I am guessing you are a young man with few assets. I wish you good luck trading up your holdings.

All I can say to you, wealth is not measured in bitcoin, it is measured in dollar (and other fiat). You're not wealthy how much bitcoins you have, you're wealthy how much dollars they're worth.

So what you are saying is assets can be priced in different currency units? What if one doesn't live in the US?

That's why I said other fiat in parenthesis. Just something is priced in different currency units doesn't make it same as them. Bitcoin is an asset, financial and speculative tool, but not a currency.

Why is it not a currency?

It's not used to trade goods and services. Or at least, it's used only marginally for that. Most of it's use comes from speculation, trading other currencies with it, that's why I said it's financial tool, an asset. Bitcoin is a vehicle for transacting other currencies, but it's not a currency itself. It could be a currency, but presently it's certainly not.

inca

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Activity: 1176

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Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 07:08:46 AM

Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 07:01:48 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 06:54:59 AM

Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 06:48:53 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 06:29:34 AM

Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 06:26:44 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 06:21:39 AM

The whole point of bitcoin is to squeeze the most fiat and the most profits out of it. Only bag holders and cultists don't seem to understand that.

I don't think you understand bitcoin at all.

No, you don't. But don't listen to me, you just hodl, while others make money at your expense (I'm talking real money, like dollar, euro, pound)

I am guessing you are a young man with few assets. I wish you good luck trading up your holdings.

All I can say to you, wealth is not measured in bitcoin, it is measured in dollar (and other fiat). You're not wealthy how much bitcoins you have, you're wealthy how much dollars they're worth.

So what you are saying is assets can be priced in different currency units? What if one doesn't live in the US?

That's why I said other fiat in parenthesis. Just something is priced in different currency units doesn't make it same as them. Bitcoin is an asset, financial and speculative tool, but not a currency.

Why is it not a currency?

DeadCoin

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Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 07:01:48 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 06:54:59 AM

Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 06:48:53 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 06:29:34 AM

Quote from: inca on November 08, 2014, 06:26:44 AM

Quote from: DeadCoin on November 08, 2014, 06:21:39 AM

The whole point of bitcoin is to squeeze the most fiat and the most profits out of it. Only bag holders and cultists don't seem to understand that.

I don't think you understand bitcoin at all.

No, you don't. But don't listen to me, you just hodl, while others make money at your expense (I'm talking real money, like dollar, euro, pound)

I am guessing you are a young man with few assets. I wish you good luck trading up your holdings.

All I can say to you, wealth is not measured in bitcoin, it is measured in dollar (and other fiat). You're not wealthy how much bitcoins you have, you're wealthy how much dollars they're worth.

So what you are saying is assets can be priced in different currency units? What if one doesn't live in the US?

That's why I said other fiat in parenthesis. Just something is priced in different currency units doesn't make it same as them. Bitcoin is an asset, financial and speculative tool, but not a currency.

Topic: Has trading ruined the day for HODLERS? (Read 2824 times)