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Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s - page 35. (Read 880461 times)

legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
Here is another question. If HF spent all the money on chips and on PCB with what money were they supposed to build the MPP?

First, why are you even wasting your time arguing with that idiot?

Second, read what you wrote there.  Read it twice if you need to and think about what you're even trying to ask.  Unless, like iCEBREAKER, I too am an idiot and you meant this to be rhetorical.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
Pfft, shows what you know (IE very little).  First of all, you *CAN* prove incompetence.  The US Attorney tried to, but was laughed out of court!   Grin

There is a well developed body of exacting legal standards and tests for incompetence.  HF met none of them, so your pedestrian opinions are debunked.

As I said. Since there was a contractor designated to do the PCB there is no incompetence on HF side. If HF tried to design the PCB then it could have been some negligence, but with a contractor I don't see how it would be possible to blame HF for the fuck up. Please tell me which law punishes a company for spending all their money on inventory assets. I don't think there is one and for me it looks like HF did that.

Here is another question. If HF spent all the money on chips and on PCB with what money were they supposed to build the MPP?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
You can't prove in a court that someone was stupid or incompetent because there is no law that punishes people for being stupid. You keep bringing the court argument because it's your only escape.

I want to know how were all the money spent. HF had money for 4 batches of miners and all they had in the end were bare chips. I want to know how much % were spent on chips, how much on PCB and how much for chip IP.

Pfft, shows what you know (IE very little).  First of all, you *CAN* prove incompetence.  The US Attorney tried to, but was laughed out of court!   Grin

There is a well developed body of exacting legal standards and tests for incompetence.  HF met none of them, so your pedestrian opinions are debunked.

The only reason you reject the court's expertise in this matter is because it reached conclusions with which you disagree.

If you want to know the financial numbers, consult the publicly available documents or pay me to be your research assistant.

The 'repeatedly ask already answered questions then insult me when I answer them' game is boring.   Cool
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
Courts punish people for gross negligence. Does that apply here?

Don't think so. Negligence would apply if they were the ones doing the PCB, but since it was a contractor that failed HF can't be held account for others failures.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1038
Courts punish people for gross negligence. Does that apply here?
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
The only reason you reject the court's expertise in this matter is because it reached conclusions with which you disagree.[/b]

You can't prove in a court that someone was stupid or incompetent because there is no law that punishes people for being stupid. You keep bringing the court argument because it's your only escape.

I want to know how were all the money spent. HF had money for 4 batches of miners and all they had in the end were bare chips. I want to know how much % were spent on chips, how much on PCB and how much for chip IP.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
Hey RS, that's some great 20/20 hindsight you have there.  You should be a professional Monday Morning Quarterback with such a skill.   Cheesy

Not all the PCBs failed, so the back-up plan worked although of course it took longer than an initial success would have.

What exactly was the back-up plan? Because I don't get it from your statement and you already said that they didn't have any money left which means they sunk ALL 4 batches pre-orders money into chips and PCBs.

Quote
As I've already explained, giving out raw chips wasn't a viable option until Peppermining and others could do something with them.  Please try to keep up.

How did Peppermining appeared? Were they helped by HF? If yes why didn't they do it earlier? At that moment there were already a couple of third-party PCB developers. Why didn't HF collaborated with any of them?

Quote
Nobody said we are in court and not in a public forum.  Good job stating the obvious, as if anyone had disputed that.   Roll Eyes

Nonetheless, a court is an ideal mechanism intentionally designed to thoroughly test propositions such as "HF is a scam/incompetent."

The only reason you reject the court's expertise in this matter is because it reached conclusions with which you disagree.

I stated that we are not in court because you keep bringing court excuses. As I previously said there is no law that forces companies to have a back-up plan. There is no law that punishes retard business decisions like sinking all money into raw chips and a single PCB contractor without any back-up plan. There is no law that is stopping companies to spend money on whatever they choose. So bringing court arguments here is simply stupid because there is simply no case for being a stupid business owner. I wonder what kind of contract did HF have with the PCB contractor. It seems there was no clause in case of failure which is again a very retarded business decision.

Let met tell you an analogy. I want to open a restaurant and I raise money from investors. I rent the space, I decorate it and I buy the stuff needed for the kitchen. With ALL that's left I buy food and I hire a guy to start cooking and I open the restaurant. The guy fucks up the food and I'm out of money and out of customers and out of options. I declare bankruptcy and there is no law that can punish me for this. This is what happened to HF too. Stupid business decisions.

Even AMT is still in business after all their fuck ups while HF is on just a spectator now.

You can do your own research on Peppermining, unless you want to pay me to be your investigative assistant and copy/paste from their thread because you are too lazy to do a simple search.   Tongue

HF hired two or three board designers, in case one of them failed.  If they hadn't, the miners would have shipped even later than they already did.


"Court excuses?"

A court of law is intentionally designed as the ideal mechanism to thoroughly test propositions such as "HF is a scam/incompetent."

The only reason you reject the court's expertise in this matter is because it reached conclusions with which you disagree.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
Hey RS, that's some great 20/20 hindsight you have there.  You should be a professional Monday Morning Quarterback with such a skill.   Cheesy

Not all the PCBs failed, so the back-up plan worked although of course it took longer than an initial success would have.

What exactly was the back-up plan? Because I don't get it from your statement and you already said that they didn't have any money left which means they sunk ALL 4 batches pre-orders money into chips and PCBs.

Quote
As I've already explained, giving out raw chips wasn't a viable option until Peppermining and others could do something with them.  Please try to keep up.

How did Peppermining appeared? Were they helped by HF? If yes why didn't they do it earlier? At that moment there were already a couple of third-party PCB developers. Why didn't HF collaborated with any of them?

Quote
Nobody said we are in court and not in a public forum.  Good job stating the obvious, as if anyone had disputed that.   Roll Eyes

Nonetheless, a court is an ideal mechanism intentionally designed to thoroughly test propositions such as "HF is a scam/incompetent."

The only reason you reject the court's expertise in this matter is because it reached conclusions with which you disagree.

I stated that we are not in court because you keep bringing court excuses. As I previously said there is no law that forces companies to have a back-up plan. There is no law that punishes retard business decisions like sinking all money into raw chips and a single PCB contractor without any back-up plan. There is no law that is stopping companies to spend money on whatever they choose. So bringing court arguments here is simply stupid because there is simply no case for being a stupid business owner. I wonder what kind of contract did HF have with the PCB contractor. It seems there was no clause in case of failure which is again a very retarded business decision.

Let met tell you an analogy. I want to open a restaurant and I raise money from investors. I rent the space, I decorate it and I buy the stuff needed for the kitchen. With ALL that's left I buy food and I hire a guy to start cooking and I open the restaurant. The guy fucks up the food and I'm out of money and out of customers and out of options. I declare bankruptcy and there is no law that can punish me for this. This is what happened to HF too. Stupid business decisions.

Even AMT is still in business after all their fuck ups while HF is on just a spectator now.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
So HF cashed in money for 4 batches and they spent it all on chips and on failed PCBs? ALL? Really??? What was their backup plan in case something goes wrong?

Also if HF had the chips all the time why didn't they converted MPP to raw chips when they realized that putting chips on boards will not be possible due to financial constraints? That is bad intended and also another fail.

Don't put words in my mouth buddy.  Are you too illiterate to be familiar with the phrase "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry?"

The court rejected your tired old charge of incompetence, because HF is not responsible for adverse business conditions.

Stop with the court bullshit. We are not in court here. We are on a public forum and it's more than obvious that spending all 4 batches money on chips and on failed PCB without a back-up plan was the most retarded thing ever. Of course there is no law that prevents people from being stupid and there is no law that obligates companies to always have a back-up plan in case their main fails. But the reality is that they had no idea how to manage the shitload of cash that landed in their pockets. Even BFL who shit on so many customers lasted longer than this joke of a company who only knows how to spend money without having a back-up plan.

Hey RS, that's some great 20/20 hindsight you have there.  You should be a professional Monday Morning Quarterback with such a skill.   Cheesy

Not all the PCBs failed, so the back-up plan worked although of course it took longer than an initial success would have.

As I've already explained, giving out raw chips wasn't a viable option until Peppermining and others could do something with them.  Please try to keep up.

Nobody said we are in court and not in a public forum.  Good job stating the obvious, as if anyone had disputed that.   Roll Eyes

Nonetheless, a court is an ideal mechanism intentionally designed to thoroughly test propositions such as "HF is a scam/incompetent."

The only reason you reject the court's expertise in this matter is because it reached conclusions with which you disagree.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
"Find a logic?"  What would we do without Gyrsur trying to get in his bitchy little digs for no good reason?   Cheesy

MPP was delayed because HF could only test chips and build boards so fast due to logistical/financial constraints, and shipping Batch 2,3,4 was the priority.

Meanwhile, raw chips became a viable option as Peppermining and others set up parallel board assembly operations.

So HF cashed in money for 4 batches and they spent it all on chips and on failed PCBs? ALL? Really??? What was their backup plan in case something goes wrong?

Also if HF had the chips all the time why didn't they converted MPP to raw chips when they realized that putting chips on boards will not be possible due to financial constraints? That is bad intended and also another fail.

Don't put words in my mouth buddy.  Are you too illiterate to be familiar with the phrase "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry?"

The court rejected your tired old charge of incompetence, because HF is not responsible for adverse business conditions.

Stop with the court bullshit. We are not in court here. We are on a public forum and it's more than obvious that spending all 4 batches money on chips and on failed PCB without a back-up plan was the most retarded thing ever. Of course there is no law that prevents people from being stupid and there is no law that obligates companies to always have a back-up plan in case their main fails. But the reality is that they had no idea how to manage the shitload of cash that landed in their pockets. Even BFL who shit on so many customers lasted longer than this joke of a company who only knows how to spend money without having a back-up plan.
legendary
Activity: 2856
Merit: 1520
Bitcoin Legal Tender Countries: 2 of 206
guess icebreaker is being paid to defend HF because Barber is still active on this forum and lurking.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
No Jimmothy that is not true at all.  Do you even know what a "financial constraint" is?  That means HF couldn't afford to put MPP chips on boards, even if Peppermining/Bitcrane had enough capacity and components to produce them.  Babbling nonsense about NASA rockets?  Get a grip, man!   Tongue

A financial constraint and having absolutely no money are two very different things. I'm curious to know how Hashfast could raise wages for every employee working doing absolutely nothing at HF while they are "out of money".

I'd really suggest you read by NASA analogy. You might learn something about yourself and become slightly less of a sociopath.

I never did find the court document which outlines HF's expenses, if anyone knows where it is please let me know. I must know how they managed to spend 10 times as much as every other manufacturer without it involving incompetence/mismanagement.
legendary
Activity: 2856
Merit: 1520
Bitcoin Legal Tender Countries: 2 of 206
BS, they shipped nothing except some Batch 1 devices. your words about this so called company sounds like they were professionals but in real live they were hobbyist with attitude to ripoff the Bitcoin community!

Your mistake is assuming that HF intention all along was to rip people off, just because the company failed.  That petulant attitude is not mature, honest, or helpful.

Were you really stupid enough to think that nothing unintentional could go wrong when pre-ordering an ambitiously spec'd ASIC from a tiny start-up?

Are you actually stupid enough to believe that malfeasance is the best or only explanation for what went wrong?

What do you expect them to do beyond their best effort?  Go to jail?  Commit seppuku?   Grin


Lol you sound really sensitive and touchy. All I did was translate what you said....buddy.
Haha Smiley

You didn't translate or paraphrase anything I said.  You tried to put words in my mouth and I called you out for it.

I also called you out for being too illiterate to be familiar with the heuristic "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry."

I see you have no response to that, so we may assume you are indeed an idiot of stunning naivete who believes that a decent business plan guarantees success No Matter What.   Wink

again a professional way is to communicate issues early enough to customers so customers have a chance to review the actual situation again and not to force people to buy again when the disaster is obviously. the disaster was clear latest in the middle of Nov 2013. Batch 1 and 2 I agree but not Batch 3 and 4. second if I have a contract with customers I have to fullfill this contract and not to sell the chips to third parties like Bitcrane or something else.

they fail to deliver in several cases. period. hobbyist!
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
BS, they shipped nothing except some Batch 1 devices. your words about this so called company sounds like they were professionals but in real live they were hobbyist with attitude to ripoff the Bitcoin community!

Your mistake is assuming that HF intention all along was to rip people off, just because the company failed.  That petulant attitude is not mature, honest, or helpful.

Were you really stupid enough to think that nothing unintentional could go wrong when pre-ordering an ambitiously spec'd ASIC from a tiny start-up?

Are you actually stupid enough to believe that malfeasance is the best or only explanation for what went wrong?

What do you expect them to do beyond their best effort?  Go to jail?  Commit seppuku?   Grin


Lol you sound really sensitive and touchy. All I did was translate what you said....buddy.
Haha Smiley

You didn't translate or paraphrase anything I said.  You tried to put words in my mouth and I called you out for it.

I also called you out for being too illiterate to be familiar with the heuristic "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry."

I see you have no response to that, so we may assume you are indeed an idiot of stunning naivete who believes that a decent business plan guarantees success No Matter What.   Wink
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
You do realize that instead of sending customers raw chips so they can each send them back to a chip integrator, HF could have just contracted Peppermining and/or Bitcrane to build their hardware right? But then again that would have made too much sense financially and logistically.
+n

Who wouldn't have accepted to pay for his own board at the beginning of this year, to fulfil his own MPP?
I also tried to propose them a chip settlement via my lawyer at the time, but even that was loudly ignored.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
which means they didn't have a grasp on the entire financial end of developing Asics for customers? Lol ok thanks for confirming they didn't have a decent plan to deliver from the beginning lol

Don't put words in my mouth buddy.  Are you too illiterate to be familiar with the phrase "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry?"

The court rejected your tired old charge of incompetence, because HF is not responsible for adverse business conditions.  Repeating the charge will not make it true.  HF made best efforts but they just weren't enough to overcome their obstacles in time.  If you expect business success to be guaranteed by a plan No Matter What, then you are an idiot of stunning naivete.   Wink

HF had a decent plan to deliver and they almost made it.  Meeting their ambitious performance spec, while Cointerra whiffed, shows that.

Absent the ill-conceived bankruptcy filings, HF had every chance of being recapitalized and able to eventually meet its refund and other obligations.

MPP was delayed because HF could only test chips and build boards so fast due to logistical/financial constraints, and shipping Batch 2,3,4 was the priority.

Meanwhile, raw chips became a viable option as Peppermining and others set up parallel board assembly operations.

You do realize that instead of sending customers raw chips so they can each send them back to a chip integrator, HF could have just contracted Peppermining and/or Bitcrane to build their hardware right? But then again that would have made too much sense financially and logistically.

No Jimmothy that is not true at all.  Do you even know what a "financial constraint" is?  That means HF couldn't afford to put MPP chips on boards, even if Peppermining/Bitcrane had enough capacity and components to produce them.  Babbling nonsense about NASA rockets?  Get a grip, man!   Tongue

Lol you sound really sensitive and touchy. All I did was translate what you said....buddy.

Haha Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2856
Merit: 1520
Bitcoin Legal Tender Countries: 2 of 206
Again avoiding relevant questions. I see that the bankruptcy was filled on 9 May. Wasn't the MPP supposed to ship in the first 4 months? So that would mean that the case filling was AFTER HF had to deliver the MPP. Please correct me.

MPP was due 90 days after delivery of the miner. HF started delivering miners in late Dec, which would mean the MPP should have been started in April. In March, HF announced delays to the MPP deliveries, "expecting" to start in June. Obviously March and April are before May, so HF was already in violation of the MPP by the time the bankruptcy filing occurred.

I am waiting on iCEBREAKER's stand on this, hoping he will not ignore it.

I bet he has a answer but it will take longer to find a logic behind the answer so give him enough space.  Wink
MPP was delayed because HF could only test chips and build boards so fast due to logistical/financial constraints, and shipping Batch 2,3,4 was the priority.

BS, they shipped nothing except some Batch 1 devices and after the key date which means full BTC refund. your words about this so called company sounds like they were professionals but in real live they were hobbyist with attitude to ripoff the Bitcoin community!
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
which means they didn't have a grasp on the entire financial end of developing Asics for customers? Lol ok thanks for confirming they didn't have a decent plan to deliver from the beginning lol

Don't put words in my mouth buddy.  Are you too illiterate to be familiar with the phrase "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry?"

The court rejected your tired old charge of incompetence, because HF is not responsible for adverse business conditions.  Repeating the charge will not make it true.  HF made best efforts but they just weren't enough to overcome their obstacles in time.  If you expect business success to be guaranteed by a plan No Matter What, then you are an idiot of stunning naivete.   Wink

HF had a decent plan to deliver and they almost made it.  Meeting their ambitious performance spec, while Cointerra whiffed, shows that.

Absent the ill-conceived bankruptcy filings, HF had every chance of being recapitalized and able to eventually meet its refund and other obligations.

MPP was delayed because HF could only test chips and build boards so fast due to logistical/financial constraints, and shipping Batch 2,3,4 was the priority.

Meanwhile, raw chips became a viable option as Peppermining and others set up parallel board assembly operations.

You do realize that instead of sending customers raw chips so they can each send them back to a chip integrator, HF could have just contracted Peppermining and/or Bitcrane to build their hardware right? But then again that would have made too much sense financially and logistically.

No Jimmothy that is not true at all.  Do you even know what a "financial constraint" is?  That means HF couldn't afford to put MPP chips on boards, even if Peppermining/Bitcrane had enough capacity and components to produce them.  Babbling nonsense about NASA rockets?  Get a grip, man!   Tongue
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
MPP was delayed because HF could only test chips and build boards so fast due to logistical/financial constraints, and shipping Batch 2,3,4 was the priority.

Meanwhile, raw chips became a viable option as Peppermining and others set up parallel board assembly operations.

You do realize that instead of sending customers raw chips so they can each send them back to a chip integrator, HF could have just contracted Peppermining and/or Bitcrane to build their hardware right? But then again that would have made too much sense financially and logistically.

This situation is sort of like if NASA was given enough money to build 10 rockets but instead they spent it all on a single super advanced rocket. Icebreaker then recruits astronauts for the mission insisting that the rocket is flawless even before any testing. Launch day comes around and before even leaving earths atmosphere, the rocket explodes killing everyone on board. The whole country is left devastated, other than Icebreaker who celebrates what he interprets as a huge success while blaming the explosion on the astronauts who had absolutely zero control over the spacecraft.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
Again avoiding relevant questions. I see that the bankruptcy was filled on 9 May. Wasn't the MPP supposed to ship in the first 4 months? So that would mean that the case filling was AFTER HF had to deliver the MPP. Please correct me.

MPP was due 90 days after delivery of the miner. HF started delivering miners in late Dec, which would mean the MPP should have been started in April. In March, HF announced delays to the MPP deliveries, "expecting" to start in June. Obviously March and April are before May, so HF was already in violation of the MPP by the time the bankruptcy filing occurred.

I am waiting on iCEBREAKER's stand on this, hoping he will not ignore it.

I bet he has a answer but it will take longer to find a logic behind the answer so give him enough space.  Wink

"Find a logic?"  What would we do without Gyrsur trying to get in his bitchy little digs for no good reason?   Cheesy

MPP was delayed because HF could only test chips and build boards so fast due to logistical/financial constraints, and shipping Batch 2,3,4 was the priority.

Meanwhile, raw chips became a viable option as Peppermining and others set up parallel board assembly operations.
which means they didn't have a grasp on the entire financial end of developing Asics for customers? Lol ok thanks for confirming they didn't have a decent plan to deliver from the beginning lol
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