Topic: [HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit) - page 35. (Read 565829 times)

I think it is a little overpriced right now.  We are probably headed for a more normal difficulty change.

It helps that the liquidity of the shares went up due to the stock split
Anyways difficulty went up only 3.08%
Believe most mining chips are between Gens so there is a chance for a stronger return but with no reinvest it will fall again eventually.

Seems like trading has been pretty active. 

if cryptx wants to keep this project going, they need to introduce  an ipo  investors can speculate on, like  how cex had fhm and fhj. on the other hand  alot of investors have a sour taste in their mouths, i dont no if they can even get people to fall for same bs another time. also need to lower energy cost, something feels fishy about the electricity cost, i dont think this project was ever about the inverstors at all.

So. In summary, we are mining until the profit less than hosting cost. It means we are gambling on hash rate increasing speed.

It's a discount cex.io, it doesn't get any better.

I don't know, I'm not him so I am not per se suggesting anything.  I can only offer analysis on what I see as possible options.

If it were my business I'd be looking for methodologies to extend it and increase revenues.  without reinvestment and without some change to the business model PETA is a dead man walking.  That's all I'm saying, in addition to assuming he'd like to stay in business.

another offering may or may not be the best bet.  I don't have the financials in front of me, although if PETA is liquid, and is showing positive revenue, it has options from a business perspective that other businesses do not have. 

I think people see what's happened with this endless IPO model.  they lose their asses.  it's not realistic I think to just keep popping out IPO's and expecting people to blindly push in funding. 

In the case of PETA it has a history, is a somewhat established and arguably successful vehicle.  That's the one I'm concentrating on and looking to build up, if it's me, which it isn't.
 
so, I'm not suggesting anything, I'm speculating that he wants to stay in business and PETA is his strongest asset, which it would make sense to protect, unless he wants to get a real job.

and, of course, I'm asking for clarification from PETA as to what the plan is.

Not sure I understand what you're suggesting.  Now that the overwhelming majority has voted for fixed hashrate and 100% dividends, what is there to add?   Are you expecting cryptx to sweeten the deal somehow?  If there is any sweetener to be had, why would he add it to this project as opposed to a new offering? 

I don't know anything about any future plans.  What I'd like to know is what the business model looks like going forward forward, as far as PETA is concerned.

If it's this $/Gh model, Ok.  If there are other things in the works that would be good to know also.  Just looking for a concrete plan from PETA.

I don't blame anyone for jumping out.  This model,  if it sits as it is, is a slow decline to obsolescence.  There is an assumption on my part, which is admittedly nothing but a great big assumption based only on my own instincts as to what I'd be doing in that situation, that they may be looking for ways to change to adapt to the situation.  That may be the intention and it may not be.  What I'd like to know is what the plan is, if there is one.  If there isn't I'd like to know that too.

Right, right. I don't mean to say they shouldn't answer to you guys. I'm out so I've washed my hands of the situation because I didn't like how things were shaping up. But from my perspective, I don't see what "future plans" you're alluding to. For PETA, the fact that they pegged units to 1gh/s and are distributing 100% of dividends now seems to suggest to me that there are no future plans to grow this fund. The situation now is you own shares that hash at 1gh/s, all revenue (less expenses) are distributed to shareholders, and that's the end of the story. I don't know what other information about the fund you could be looking for.

To my mind, the only question that seems to be outstanding is are the hosting costs being charged to unit owners reasonable, or are they needlessly sapping profit from shares?

you're welcome to your opinion, but that is not any information on future plans.  if you are satisfied with the info as it sits, that's fine.  I'm not.

you're out so I don't imagine you care.  for those still in this information is useful, as it would be for those looking to invest. 

I voted for it too thinking it would unlock a little value (and it did, and I took the opportunity to liquidate). But look at what the reality was: none of the funds being set aside were being set aside to purchase new hardware. The hardware was already purchased, and the BTC being set aside for "reinvestment" was actually just paying back the loan that purchased the hardware.

Again, no funds were being used to bring additional hardware online.

Once the loan was paid off, I suppose funds could have start being compiled to increase hashrate of the fund, but based on the rate the loan was being paid off and how long it would take to then save enough to buy additional hardware, that was many months off, assuming enough would ever be saved to buy new hardware.

So the vote makes perfect sense to me. It's people voting to drop the facade of buying additional miners and peg shares to 1gh/s each in hopes of reaching price parity with cex.io shares of the same speed.




At this point, I don't think more information is warranted. You have all the information you need. Shares are worth 1gh/s each. It's not going to change. That's kind of the end of the story here for this fund, it's just a slow march towards obsolescence for these miners now.

I think it would be good for everyone if Cryptx chimed in with the plan for the future.

Investors deserve this sort of basic information.  What is the vision at this point.

What baffles me is that 98% of shareholders voted in favor of the change. They basically said "give me 100% now, I don't really care about the future".

I think there's a small distinction here. Before, a "unit" was not pegged to a specific hashrate, it was simply a percentage of the overall hashrate, so when funds were reinvested by the fund and hashrate rose, your unit (in theory) appreciated due to the increased value of the hashrate it represents. That is done now. The fund has dropped the delusion of buying more mining hardware to keep up with difficulty increases to maintain its original share of the network hashrate.

Now, "reinvesting" your dividends means buying more shares worth 1gh/s each. It's static now (as opposed to before when each share was not pegged to a specific hashrate), which means "reinvesting" isn't increasing the fund's percentage of the network hashrate which will increase the value of the shares, it means you're buying more of the fund's hashrate, which with difficulty increases means you're buying shares that will continue to represent a smaller portion of the network hashrate going forward.

Bottom line, you're buying shares that are guaranteed to depreciate unless difficulty stops increasing. And the way the math has worked out so far, you're buying shares that depreciate faster than any dividends they produce.

I was interested in PETA because the prospect of reinvesting proceeds to maintain the fund's percentage of the network hashrate seemed like a novel way to run a fund. However, I've now seen that the return from mining is not great enough to allow the purchase of enough hardware to maintain any given portion of the network hashrate. Mining is simply too competitive.

I learned the hard way, but I suppose that was the only way I was going to learn. I sold out of PETA today at about a 35% loss in a month. There may be a price at which these shares will return a profit over time, but I'm not interested in trying to find out what it is. Good luck to those of you making a go of this. I hope you have better luck than I did!

For an investor, this changes almost nothing. Whether crypx witholds your dividends to buy additional hashrate with your coin, or you spend waste your divs to buy more shares (ie, more hashrate) is basically the same thing. The only real difference is that you determine when to buy and at what price, so if anything, this is an improvement.

Of course it will never allow you to keep up with difficulty, but cryptx doing it for you was even less likely to achieve that.

Sorry to confront you with reality, but this is purely misinformed.

The only source of such cheap renewable energy (2-4ct/kW/h) is hydroelectric, and only if you are situated very near to the production site (and are lucky your utility company isn´t too greedy.)

Power costs for industrial use easily range from 12-18ct/kW/h in Belgium.

Please also understand that quoting pure power costs doesn´t give you the whole picture, as additional costs for physically hosting the units and providing ventilation have to be added.

As such, I believe the price to be quite fair.

With the stock split and reallocation, how are they going to go forward with this? Are they just forgoing any reinvestment in new mining equipment? Part of the reason I invested was because of the concept of being able to keep up with the rising difficulty through proportional shares as the mine expanded. How will they raise money to buy new hardware now?

Seems like the price of PETA is pretty volatile.   I've been able to make a little buying and selling slightly higher, but that probably won't last.   

Agreed on the lowest difficulty jump in a long time comment.  The calm before the storm I suspect. 

Also, cryptx isn't paying 0.50/kw/h for electricity that's just what he's charging between his sha and scrypt mining projects.  Average cost for most "green" electricity operations is somewhere around 0.026/kw/h.  so if this is what he's paying, he's effectively charging 0.224/kw/h between his two projects.  Absolutely ridiculous!  What's even more ridiculous is that I bought into him way back when he was still charging 0.50/kw/h just for his sha project.

Anyway, also looking for exit position on my remaining few shares.