Topic: Health Care (split from I am very confused.) - page 2. (Read 4538 times)

It doesn't matter what is happening with the oil reserves. The fact is they are there and are under Cuba's territory. They have value just being there because oil is scarce and it continues to deplete. They will be used eventually.

Again, they act as collateral for lending nations. Cuba is running mostly on credit. If Cuba fails to pay its debts, the lending countries get their oil reserves. It's very simple.

Yes, Cuba has had a socialized healthcare system since 1959 but it hasn't always worked as it does now.  

Germany has a mixture of public and private insurance, but it's about 80% public.

It's not about profit. If you're running a country entirely on credit, you will eventually lose control of your nation. You are no longer sovereign but only under the whims of who controls your money supply.

What should come first is the people's independence. All else can sustainably come after.

Let me quote part of your wikipedia link:


Cuba has a 'socialized' healthcare system since 1959...

http://www.miller-mccune.com/health/warning-signs-from-europe-3470/

National health care schemes in Germany and Switzerland (and many other countries) rely on the government’s power to cut deals with major industry groups, including doctors, to keep expenses down. European doctors who work in the statutory insurance market earn scaled salaries set in agreements with the government.

The result is a class of doctors that feels increasingly underpaid and overworked. German hospital doctors earn about one-fifth of their American counterparts — an average of $56,000 per year, as opposed to $268,000 in the states. When negotiations with the government fall short, the doctors behave like any other group of workers in Europe: They take to the streets.
The marches in 2006 were the largest in German history, triggered by government reforms aimed at controlling costs in the national health care system.

Only part of the problem was pay. Another problem, from the doctors’ point of view, were the so-called bonus-malus laws, which punished them for prescribing expensive drugs and rewarded them for prescribing generics. The idea was to keep down pharmaceuticals prices, but the doctors felt the hot breath of government on their necks. “This ethically objectionable bonus-malus legal gimmickry — akin to bribing physicians not to treat to the best of their ability — was one of the sparks of the doctor protest movement,” wrote Alphonse Crespo, a libertarian-minded Swiss orthopedic surgeon.

The reforms finally pushed through by Angela Merkel’s government gave Germany its current system, which uses a central fund to compensate insurance companies for patients according to the patients’ risk. The government dropped its bonus-malus rules in 2008. But Germany’s specific problems with its health care system are less relevant than their cause, which is the same as the cause of America’s crisis: ballooning costs. Doctor salaries are the least of it. The German system is full of administrative corruption within the nation’s many insurance companies.

So is insurance itself the problem?

Maybe.

Somehow we're going to bankrupt ourselves by spending less than we already do. Thanks, got it.

Also, I support more of an NHS-style system. Obama's plan may have been a step in the right direction in some other time or place, but I don't trust the Democrats to take it in that direction in 21st century America. After all, there are profits to be had.


Yeah, yeah, taxes are slavery and everything must be done at a huge profit, we know.

A tax burden of 40% with health services that still run at a deficit is not my idea of a successful nor sovereign country.

I understand this. However, it doesn't matter if they are paying less, when they themselves see their programs as bankrupting their government. Both do.  Following their lead will surely bankrupt ours. You can argue that it will bankrupt us slower then we are already going. But that is hardly a solution to the problem. It is merely pretending to address the problem.

By the way, which universal healthcare plan are you supporting here in the US? The one the administration recently passed? Are you claiming that gets us well down the road to 50% savings? Because the administration claims total costs will go up.

Germany has 80 million people and they manage. They also manage to have one of the strongest economies in the world.

That's not to mention federal healthcare services would be unconstitutional.

Yes it does. A larger populace adds extensive overhead costs at a federal level. You have to manage more names, more capitas and more bureaus while not even seeing a single face on a local level. To run a healthcare program at such a high federal level would be a disaster. If you take a look, you'll see the EU doesn't run its constituents healthcare for a reason while its trying to end its failing food relief program.

Yes; however, these oil rights enable it to run its nation mostly on credit since the oil acts as collateral. The oil reserves are highly relevant and they are keeping Cuba alive despite them not being used.

Those are per capita numbers, Atlas. Larger populace doesn't enter into it. And if you want to talk population density, Australia is worse off than us in that department and still coming in at a third of our cost.

No, Cuba doesn't. To discover an oil field and to exploit it are two quite different things! Even now (2011) Cuba is importing 100% of all the oil they consume.

Alright, I highly suggest we pause this and get this whole discussion moved to Politics and Society. This is really off-topic and bad for this board. Somebody report my post.

We pay more than they do in public spending because 1) we have a larger populace and 2) our country is larger in terms of land area. This adds a lot of overhead. European countries are close, small and nearly decentralized. Of course they pay less when it comes to government services.

It's apples to oranges. Their situation won't apply to us.

Again, just look at the prices. We already pay way more than they do before you even count private spending!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_Cuba

Yes, Cuba does.

America only has 1.5 billion barrels in its reserve. Let's not forget the oil companies aren't under government control. We only pay less because we hold the oil standard currency and our oil is subsidized.

You're wrong. Cuba doesn't have oil reserves. Venezuela has.
The U.S. have vast oil reserves in different parts of the world. Now even Iraq, the second largest oil reserves after Saudi Arabia, is a U.S. colony! Lets not forget that Americans pay the cheapest gas prices at the gas station among all developed countries.

Entirely public systems pay less but they aren't necessarily more efficient. Universal systems increase the cost of luxuries and private care that has desires that are not met by public services. It deprives liberty from people who usually pay for their care. It deprives them of services that they may otherwise be able to afford.

I like my extra dermatology services and rational psychiatry that doesn't try to diagnose me with a checklist. I want care suited to my individual desires at affordable, competitive prices. Not government bureaucrats and corporate lobbyists.