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Topic: Hearn's "Faith in Humanity Shaken" after People Awaken to His EVIL Plan! - page 3. (Read 6015 times)

legendary
Activity: 994
Merit: 1035

Has anyone with high technical knowledge taken the time to deconstruct his post point-by-point? He does make some interesting points that even I (not by any means a "big blockist") feel should be addressed.

Here is a detailed rebuttal ---

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lies-fud-and-hyperbole-1329647

There are so many lies that I had to break it up in 2 parts.
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1030
Twitter @realmicroguy
Hearn is definitely correct.

If you disagree, I suggest: get your head out of your arse and READ what he's saying:

https://medium.com/@octskyward/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experiment-dabb30201f7#.9mmfs7o10

REAL problems with Bitcoin community... thankfully this:

Quote

Still, all is not yet lost. Despite everything that has happened, in the past few weeks more members of the community have started picking things up from where I am putting them down. Where making an alternative to Core was once seen as renegade, there are now two more forks vying for attention (Bitcoin Classic and Bitcoin Unlimited). So far they’ve hit the same problems as XT but it’s possible a fresh set of faces could find a way to make progress.


Do people actually buy this nonsense Hearn is spewing? The solution is simple, put in a fork and make 4MB blocks!

~~

This is not FAKE rocket science like Elon Musk is perpetrating. That type of fakery and shilling takes REAL skill!
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
Has anyone with high technical knowledge taken the time to deconstruct his post point-by-point? He does make some interesting points that even I (not by any means a "big blockist") feel should be addressed.

Pick out a few of the more interesting bits and I'll respond to them.

Quote
Why would Satoshi not sign his post, thus proving that it really is him? Surely that would be a big blow to the ph0rkers, no?

- Satoshi never signed his posts.
- He likely wouldn't want it to look like he was dictating Bitcoin's future.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 501
I just can't believe what Mike Hearn did. He first dumps all his Bitcoin, then he releases an article by the New York Time announcing the end of Bitcoin. Can't you believe it? This guy has absolutely no ethical value.

Hearn is definitely correct.

If you disagree, I suggest: get your head out of your arse and READ what he's saying:

https://medium.com/@octskyward/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experiment-dabb30201f7#.9mmfs7o10

REAL problems with Bitcoin community... thankfully this:

Quote

Still, all is not yet lost. Despite everything that has happened, in the past few weeks more members of the community have started picking things up from where I am putting them down. Where making an alternative to Core was once seen as renegade, there are now two more forks vying for attention (Bitcoin Classic and Bitcoin Unlimited). So far they’ve hit the same problems as XT but it’s possible a fresh set of faces could find a way to make progress.


Quote
I support BIP 101 and bigger blocks.

legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
1.   "When networks run out of capacity, they get really unreliable".

Yep.

Although I'm not an expert on "networks", I know this:
If you run a cluster of servers, you do not want any
one machine even NEAR 50%... 25% is better.
Yet people here naively assert that
50% blocks full are ok.  We are often
hitting peak levels.

2. Transactions have been growing since the summer. 

Check the charts.  Yes, they have.

3. China is responsible for not raising the limit.

(I really don't know if this is true or not.)

4. Censorship over "XT" happened.

Appears so.

5. Gregory Maxwell doesn't think Bitcoin can or should scale and
instead should be a settlement network.

Yep.

6. Maxwell founded a company that then hired several other developers. Not surprisingly, their views then started to change to align with that of their new boss.

Yep.

7.  Maxwell and the developers he had hired refused to contemplate any increase in the limit whatsoever. They were barely even willing to talk about the issue.

Yep.

8. Bogus conferences.

Yep.  Nothing was accomplished. 


sr. member
Activity: 401
Merit: 280
Hearn is definitely correct.

If you disagree, I suggest: get your head out of your arse and READ what he's saying:

https://medium.com/@octskyward/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experiment-dabb30201f7#.9mmfs7o10

REAL problems with Bitcoin community... thankfully this:

Quote

Still, all is not yet lost. Despite everything that has happened, in the past few weeks more members of the community have started picking things up from where I am putting them down. Where making an alternative to Core was once seen as renegade, there are now two more forks vying for attention (Bitcoin Classic and Bitcoin Unlimited). So far they’ve hit the same problems as XT but it’s possible a fresh set of faces could find a way to make progress.


I have read it, and while i do not agree with everything (there are some fact problems as well), i strongly agree with the philosophical issues he mentions: there should not be censorship AT ALL about discussing the future way (blocksize, fee "market") of Bitcoin. The mere fact, that some opinions were suppressed shows which side is the elitist control freak, and which side is not. Technically, this whole debate about nodes (and mining and decentralization) being unable to be hosted with 2/4/8 whatever >1MB blocks is false. If someone has problems running a node with 1MB blocks today, he should not run it. This is SJW cultural marxism in the form of bottlenecking the network because some people with crap internet, or cheap PC can not run a full node, or mine, or operate a company in bad environment, "so none shall run a better one".

Yes, life isn't fair, in some regions of the world you won't be able to run a mining operation 'cause of the slow internet connection. This is not different from the fact that you also won't run mining operation in areas where electricity is expensive, or it is a desert climate, but you shouldn't hamper the growth of the network, because it is "unfair", and you want the same amount of nodes in Kongo jungle as in The Netherlands, in the name of decentralization! Because small blockers just do that. They find out more and more elaborate, complex, short-mid term "solutions", in the name of "fair" decentralization. Why it is a problem, that only bitcoin users with good PC/NET capabilities (or the ones with actual technical know-how, and OMG enough money!!) running nodes? Or the network needs 1 "poor African desert tribal node" for every US/Belgian one??

The blocksize on my HDD doesn't matter for me (and i guess for a lot of people who run a node out of pure ideology). I can and will spend another 100-200$ for another few TB to store it, in exchange, the number of the network users can growth (yes, they get "free blockspace - gasp - on my expense!!), and all my bitcoins will go up 100-200$, am still in +. Or i can do it just because i want to be nice Smiley There are i think 100 millions living with 10MB/s+ internet, and if only 1 in every 100.000 runs a node, it can keep up the decentralization. And yes, poor chinese miners and their Great Firewall. IDK! They mine there, because the state subsidizes electricity! It is a market distortion in the first place. Go move to Alaska, burn that cheap oil :-)

EDIT: Okay, i know the Hearn ragequit FUD was not good for the reputation, just wanted to point out the frustration about how political this whole debate became, and that we here may know "too much" to imagine a standard user's viewpoint. The needs of the "average user" is not only technical, they grasp ideas better (or only) than network security concepts burrowed under internal mailing lists. I have no chance to explain these to real life friends who are not hardcore bitcoiners reading forums 0-24, and all they can grasp from this debate is, as i have learned is: "space running out".
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1043
Cypherpunk (& cyberpunk)
I've been around this forum for near 6 years. I've read/seen bitcoin's death at least 20 times or even more, can't even remember anymore.
Do you know what happened after any "big scale" drama occurred? Price would go bonkers.

Most of this FUD happens for a reason.
Wait for $310, then sell your wife, sell your kids, because we're going for a new ATH.
sr. member
Activity: 433
Merit: 260
Hearn's article is almost entirely inaccurate/misleading FUD.
Has anyone with high technical knowledge taken the time to deconstruct his post point-by-point? He does make some interesting points that even I (not by any means a "big blockist") feel should be addressed.

Quote
It's possible that there will be some turbulence if we can't scale fast enough, but the Core devs have a plan that I think will probably alleviate problems in the short-term, and will almost certainly allow for massive scaling in the long-term. This plan includes an effective max block size increase to 2 MB in ~April. If any serious problems occur, it will be due to altcoins-in-disguise like XT and Classic trying to move Bitcoin development from something based on technical merit to something based on dictatorship or popularity.
You mean "democracy"? (dictatorship+popularity)

Quote
Someone who could very well be Satoshi said:

Quote from: Maybe Satoshi
I have been following the recent block size debates through the mailing list.  I had hoped the debate would resolve and that a fork proposal would achieve widespread consensus.  However with the formal release of Bitcoin XT 0.11A, this looks unlikely to happen, and so I am forced to share my concerns about this very dangerous fork.

The developers of this pretender-Bitcoin claim to be following my original vision, but nothing could be further from the truth.  When I designed Bitcoin, I designed it in such a way as to make future modifications to the consensus rules difficult without near unanimous agreement.  Bitcoin was designed to be protected from the influence of charismatic leaders, even if their name is Gavin Andresen, Barack Obama, or Satoshi Nakamoto.  Nearly everyone has to agree on a change, and they have to do it without being forced or pressured into it.  By doing a fork in this way, these developers are violating the "original vision" they claim to honour.

They use my old writings to make claims about what Bitcoin was supposed to be.  However I acknowledge that a lot has changed since that time, and new knowledge has been gained that contradicts some of my early opinions.  For example I didn't anticipate pooled mining and its effects on the security of the network.  Making Bitcoin a competitive monetary system while also preserving its security properties is not a trivial problem, and we should take more time to come up with a robust solution.  I suspect we need a better incentive for users to run nodes instead of relying solely on altruism.

If two developers can fork Bitcoin and succeed in redefining what "Bitcoin" is, in the face of widespread technical criticism and through the use of populist tactics, then I will have no choice but to declare Bitcoin a failed project.  Bitcoin was meant to be both technically and socially robust.  This present situation has been very disappointing to watch unfold.
Why would Satoshi not sign his post, thus proving that it really is him? Surely that would be a big blow to the ph0rkers, no?
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
Hearn is definitely correct.

If you disagree, I suggest: get your head out of your arse and READ what he's saying:

https://medium.com/@octskyward/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experiment-dabb30201f7#.9mmfs7o10

REAL problems with Bitcoin community... thankfully this:

Quote

Still, all is not yet lost. Despite everything that has happened, in the past few weeks more members of the community have started picking things up from where I am putting them down. Where making an alternative to Core was once seen as renegade, there are now two more forks vying for attention (Bitcoin Classic and Bitcoin Unlimited). So far they’ve hit the same problems as XT but it’s possible a fresh set of faces could find a way to make progress.

legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1030
Twitter @realmicroguy
I know its hard because you're probably bagholding btc but you need to realize that real eyes see real lies.

You're always a blast Bobsurplus! You should know I'm a protocol advocate; not a bitcoin investor!
legendary
Activity: 996
Merit: 1013

So what's the plan Bob?
You're going to buy a shitload?

Got my orders set at $100-$150 to catch that last bounce worth catching.
Besides that
I'm out of btc and ltc completely and all in on Fiat!

What's your next move?

I don't play these games, but if I did, I'd set my buy limit
higher than that. When miners switch to Classic, users to
Unlimited and Core has eaten its share of humble pie,
things are starting to look bright again.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
Making money since I was in the womb! @emc2whale

So what's the plan Bob?
You're going to buy a shitload?

Got my orders set at $100-$150 to catch that last bounce worth catching.
Besides that
I'm out of btc and ltc completely and all in on Fiat!

What's your next move?
legendary
Activity: 996
Merit: 1013

So what's the plan Bob?
You're going to buy a shitload?
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1030
Twitter @realmicroguy
The last thing I heard was that he joined Ethereum

The best part of the Times story is this:

"The two camps have broadly painted each other as, on one side, populists who are focused on expanding Bitcoin’s commercial potential and, on the other side, elitists who are more concerned with protecting its status as a radical challenger to existing currencies."

~~

Hearn is firmly in the former, only with a prejudice towards more control and ambition for dictatorial power. Basically, Hearn was Bitcoin's Hitler. Like Hearn, Hitler saw the masses as "inherently stupid", and not fit to govern themselves. His faith in humanity was shaken when he finally realized the bitcoin masses were awake and aware to his plan.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
Making money since I was in the womb! @emc2whale
I know its hard because you're probably bagholding btc but you need to realize that real eyes see real lies.

You're always a blast Bobsurplus! You should know I'm a protocol advocate; not a bitcoin investor!

Thanks man. You too homie.  But given you're all about the protocol you should know more then most regarding the issues Bitcoin is facing.
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1030
Twitter @realmicroguy
Your claim that he thought coinbase and bitpay constituted enough hash power to trigger the XT fork is laughable on its face.

You should reread my post more carefully. I never said that. Which makes me doubt the sincerity of your confusion.

Hearn clearly said that he intended to subvert all of China by using checkpoints. He also said he would subvert all SPV wallets using the same methods. This would of course affect anyone not using his version of the software. You must not grasp what he outlines here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB9goUDBAR0

I never claimed he could be successful, I was attempting to explain his intention per a user's request.
Zz
legendary
Activity: 1820
Merit: 1077
So is Satoshi back for the first time now? Theymos mentioned that post as Maybe Satoshi but what are the chances? I think it's logical to show up this time as Satoshi, this problem have to be discussed more importantly than "is Dorian real Satoshi" threads.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
Making money since I was in the womb! @emc2whale
The last thing I heard was that he joined Ethereum

The best part of the Times story is this:

"The two camps have broadly painted each other as, on one side, populists who are focused on expanding Bitcoin’s commercial potential and, on the other side, elitists who are more concerned with protecting its status as a radical challenger to existing currencies."

~~

Hearn is firmly in the former, only with a prejudice towards more control and ambition for dictatorial power. Basically, Hearn was Bitcoin's Hitler. Like Hearn, Hitler saw the masses as "inherently stupid", and not fit to govern themselves. His faith in humanity was shaken when he finally realized the bitcoin masses were awake and aware to his plan.

Bitcoin talks hitler?
I dont think so dude.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
BITCOIN WAS AN EXPERIMENT. I got here in 2012 and remember seeing everyone say that all the time.
Today no one says it and yall act like bitcoin has won the game.
Bitcoin lost dude.
You cant scale this shit the way it needs to be scaled.
Even of you moved some of the transactions off line sorta speak like with changetip you still have major problems.
I know its hard because you're probably bagholding btc but you need to realize that real eyes see real lies.
Bitcoin is dying. Sell now and save yourself the heartache.

But hey, what do I know? Im just some nobody bitcoiner.

 Smiley
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
The last thing I heard was that he joined Ethereum
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