Topic: help needed in blockchain analysis (Read 283 times)

Hey,
Itsik from whitestream here,
Maybe we can help by take a look at your transactions, you can contact me at: contact at whitestream io

Thanks.

Pretty good companies. Here is a summary and short info:

https://www.chainalysis.com/ Helped with Mt. Gox. New York company.
https://whitestream.io/ Solved Coinbase and Hamas related problems. Israeli company.
https://www.elliptic.co/ They have offices in Singapore and Japan, a British company. This company recently discovered a Hamas related group receiving donations. This is pretty new, September 2019.

For further information on these three companies, check out:
https://acfeinsights.squarespace.com/acfe-insights/3-companies-developing-blockchain-analytics-tools

I think you could use a blockchain-related lawyer company. Check out Blockchain Law Society https://blockchainlawsociety.com/
Here is another one: https://www.njordlaw.com/areas-of-expertise/blockchain-cryptocurrency-fintech/
https://www.twobirds.com/en/in-focus/blockchain
etc. I don't know where you are located, but it is best if you use a blockchain-related lawyer, as opposed to a generic one. You can google them for your country or write your country here and people will provide advice on that. I am assuming you already have one, but they can collaborate.

It could help him if he could have an expert, or someone the court would trust to be an expert, to speak on his behalf.

thanks!


understood.
it is an usb pendrive. i will definitely hire a pro to do a data recovery.



I understand you. But to avoid mistakes and to have authority in the court I will hire a professional. but thanks for your input, it is appreciated.


I understand what you mean. But In court I have a competing claim. If I can proof that the transactions of the 275 and 175 btc transactions are correlated and the scammer can not correlate anything then I do have  a small success in court. but i do completely understand what you are saying. my first option is then also to do a data recovery which I  try as we speak. I used an electrum wallet for wallet A by the way, and an electrum wallet for wallet B. unfortunately i was so stupid to delete wallet A from my USB pendrive because I completely trusted the scammer to pay me.

If you do not have access of wallet A, then you can't prove that wallet was belongs to you. Whatever other evidence you will provide that's all are available on blockchain. So anyone could provide that to court. Only way to prove ownership without any risk is sign a message from the address. I don't know if OP mixing up wallet with address. But if you made transaction from wallet A then change address should belongs to wallet A, it will not go automatically on wallet B if you don't put address during transaction.

Can you describe which clients you had used ? And how you had lost access of your wallet A? The only perfect way to prove yourself is recover your wallet or private keys. I don't believe some other specialist could help regarding that issue without recover private keys or wallet. Otherwise everyone will call themselves satoshi nakamoto by provide evidence of related stuff without sign message. Because all transaction history stored on the blockchain. It's not enough to prove ownership.

So actually you need prove ownership of change address? If so, then you must have access your wallet or private key of that address. I think there is not such as any mark for change address on the blockchain.

So try to recover your wallet file or something related stuff that could help recover your wallet.

On the other hand you told you sent remain fund to wallet B from change address. Then why you need prove ownership of that address, as @AdolfinWolf said at end you may sign message from wallet B from where you sent fund to second exchange. That should be right way.

then you can only prove 2 things:
1. you own address B by signing a message using its private key (wallet is a total of many keys and their corresponding addresses. you send and receive bitcoin from one or more addresses and any proof that you can provide is from individual addresses)
2. you received coins from address A


you don't need to use chain analysis company for this. any block explorer website could be used to achieve this. you must first gather all the addresses that you know of and then search them one by one in a block explorer and see where the coins are coming from or going to.

for example you know your address(es) B and you know you initially send coins from your address(es) A to it. so simply search address(es) B in a block explorer, go to its first transaction and see what address is paying it. copy the corresponding transaction ID, that is your proof that B has received X amount of coins from A.
you know your exchange address(es) EX, do the same and look for address(es) B and A in it. each received transaction is one of your deposits. copy those transaction IDs. these are proofs of your deposits and their amounts.

here is an example block explorer link: https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/

Hmm, like I said, it will be hard to prove that input1 and output2 (change address) belongs to walletA just from that single transaction.
ChainAnalysis and other pro blockchain forensics will basically do a guesswork here unless you have used those addresses together in one transaction (inputs).

Consider hiring another pro: Professional Data recovery; to be able to restore walletA from the drive where it was deleted;
if it's a hardware device, nevermind.

Just google 'blockchain analysis' and a few will show up:

https://www.elliptic.co/
https://www.coinfirm.com/
https://www.scorechain.com/
https://crystalblockchain.com/
https://www.whitestream.io/

(there are or at least used to be more of such companies but some got bought out)

and maybe Kim Nilsson of wizsec: https://www.blogger.com/profile/00130450507411246919

it is for the court in Hong Kong. I will send you an email if you do not mind with some questions. thank you for your offer to help me. 



Please give me a list of individuals I could contact and companies. I now currently only have chainalysis.

1. it is impossible for me to proof that I owned the 175 BTC at this moment. But If I can show the court that the coins in Wallet B are derived from Wallet A and Wallet A sent the 175 coins to the exchange then i might convince the court. The scammer can not show any evidence at all. so I will be the one with at least some evidence. My lawyer tells me that it can be of help.

2. thank you for the tip https://chainanalysis.com   Any more companies or professional individuals who can help me? it is for the court in hong Kong. So likely an affidavit has to be made which supports my case based on evidence found.

3. your question for more details. my lawyer prohibited to post to much information publicly. so I will keep it very summarized.
A. Wallet A had a lot of coins.
B. I send from Wallet A out several transactions of which I do not exactly remember the order.
C. at one point in time I sent out 175 BTC to exchange X of my agent.
D. I then sent out from wallet A some BTC(amount unknown) to a few addresses.
E. I then emptied my wallet A and sent all BTC from wallet A to Wallet B
F. I then sent from wallet B to "exchange X" 275 BTC

I know that it should be possible to show that the the coins from wallet B came from wallet A who sent the 175 BTC to "exchange X". If can correlate this, then I have some evidence to show to the court that these coins were correlated to me and not to the scammer.  I am the one who is suing.

for any further details, I do not want to share them publicly yet as i am not a lawyer and I do not know the consequences of what i write. but any people who can help me please message me. if you have a company or a professional in this field and can make an affadavit for the court then you can message me. 

I do not have anything left of Wallet A. I do have Wallet B in my possession.
 So I do not know how to show the master public key without having anything left of wallet A. Anyway, I would need a pro to help me. I am really not experienced enough.



that is correct. But i could at least show that the change addresses funded Wallet B and Wallet B is my possession. The scammer can not show anything. so at least I show something which correlates the coins back to me.

There are a lot more (especially if you include invidividual persons taking such work like the guy behind wizsec), chainalysis just gets mentioned the most in the press.

First of all, which jurisdiction? US, ASIA, Europe, there are different laws in different jurisdictions.

If you need a list of good lawyers, then I would say for US you have Kyle Roche at https://rochefreedman.com/kyle-roche they helped Kleiman estate against Craigh Wright. If you are in the UK you BCandLaw link here: https://bcandlaw.com/category/news/ if you want Asia, then its very different if you go China (HK), Korea or Japan.

Analaysis its very easy. Just let me know what tx you have and you can have a chain-link for free...

/KX

Proof of this is simply provided by looking at the blockchain. (as HCP stated.)


Okay; so let me get this right: (you already have your funds under your control;)? but; someone is suing you saying that these funds were from wallet A, and belonged to them, instead of you.
You- don't have access to wallet A, because it got deleted?

Do you perhaps have access from any previous adress that the 175BTC travelled through? I imagine the trail didn't start at wallet adress A- you must've bought them from somewhere. Another exchange?

[1]But;; if the case does not involve wallet B (You state: you need to prove you own the 175BTC that were coming from wallet A?) can't you just sign a message from wallet B, which has send 275BTC to (an exchange )
coming from wallet A?

This wouldn't prove you own wallet A, but it'd make it a lot more likely. I think it's the closest you'll be able to prove? Unless- i'm understanding this wrong, and they're accusing you of theft of the contents of wallet A (which were stored on the exchange) which you then withdrawed from the exchange and sent to wallet B?

---

Why not? I think there'd be a much better chance of getting a jury/judge to understand such things when you hire someone from a company such as Chainanalysis, as opposed to representing yourself.

the only sure way that you can prove ownership of an address is by having the private key of that particular address and signing a message.

just receiving some coins from that address is not proof of ownership. so even if you show that address A has sent you 175BTC or even more transaction at other times, is not proving that address A belonged to you so you can't prove the transactions going out of that address were sent by you.
that would be like if someone sent you money via wire transfer and then you go to court trying to prove you own that other bank account just because it sent you money!

One solid evidence would be: showing Wallet A's master public key. But that involves showing all of your wallet's addresses and transactions.

By giving it to someone who knows Bitcoin, it will be possible to show that the change (UTXO) from that particular transaction was the one sent to WalletB because they were derived from the same SEED.
If the wallet isn't HD (Hierarchical Deterministic) or the used change address was just imported, this can't be used because anyone can just "import private key" to add the address to the wallet.

Providing the transaction ID alone isn't that solid IMO, it's too easy "fake" the change address by using "coin control" or "pay to many" option/command.

Thank you for your answer.

I need a pro with authority because I need my evidence to have authority.

Yes If i remember correctly:
1. 175 btc from wallet A to exchange
2. some other small and big transactions followed from wallet A to various.
3. the complete contents from wallet A where then send to wallet B.
4. wallet A unfortunately was deleted and as a result I need to show evidence that the transaction of 175 btc to exchange is likely done by me and not by the other party(scammer)


So my request again: please give me a list of companies who can give me the evidence I am looking for. als I need to add that myself I am somewhat not really experienced in blockchain analysis and this is another reason that I need someone who knows what he doing.

I thank the community a lot for the answers.

All the information should be on the blockchain, and you should only need the TransactionID from the transaction that moved the coins from Wallet A to Wallet B...

This should show the change address(es) that had the coins left over from the 175 BTC. It should be a simple matter to follow back from that (A to B) transaction to see that those change address(es) are indeed from the 175 BTC transaction.

Not sure why you would need a "pro" to show that? Unless there were a number of transactions inbetween "175->Exchange" and "A to B"?

Hi
I need advise, i would be thankful if someone can give it to me for the following scenario.

I had two wallets
Wallet A
and
Wallet B

Wallet A sent 175 BTC to an address at an exchange
Wallet A then sent the remainder of the coins from Wallet A to Wallet B
Wallet B then sent 275 BTC to an address at an exchange.

I lost Wallet A
I still have Wallet B

I am in court proceeding and I need to show evidence that the change addresses of the 175 BTC (which were sent to that exchange) funded Wallet B.

I need advise which professional company can give me a solid blockchain analysis which will be used in the court of law to support my case.

I appreciate some names of blockchain analysis companies who will work for private individuals. I thank you in advance.