Helped my neighbor to purchase some Bitcoins - page 3.

drwhobox

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Quote from: Nwada001 on February 15, 2023, 05:07:59 PM

For the most part, is a mobile wallet not safer than an exchange wallet for someone who doesn't have a hardware wallet?
Even I, who directed and helped him purchase the bitcoin, don't have any hardware wallets at hand.
Assuming he is a PC owner, I could have guided him on how to create a desktop offline wallet.

Yes, a mobile wallet is way safer than an exchange. In a bitcoin wallet, you have control over your assets but in exchanges there is nothing you can control from your side, no matter how big or trusted the exchange is. With the recent incident of one of the biggest exchanges, I don't think it is a good idea to keep your assets on the exchange.

Quote

Assuming he is a PC owner, I could have guided him on how to create a desktop offline wallet.

Well, if he has a computer you can help him to install an electrum wallet, it is safer than any exchange or online mobile wallet.

Nwada001

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Quote from: sheenshane on February 13, 2023, 09:52:19 AM

Thou you mentioned the golden rule of storing Bitcoin "Not your key, Not your coin" but seems it's risky because you are using a mobile wallet which is still prone to scams, most especially personal mobile phones that every day you've used.
Hardware wallets have strong security features on their own and that's worth it to store your asset, not on the phone or more worst custodial wallet/exchange.

For the most part, is a mobile wallet not safer than an exchange wallet for someone who doesn't have a hardware wallet?
Even I, who directed and helped him purchase the bitcoin, don't have any hardware wallets at hand.
Assuming he is a PC owner, I could have guided him on how to create a desktop offline wallet.

Minor Miner

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Quote from: dezoel on February 14, 2023, 03:50:09 PM

You shouldn't say that it was high risk because how can we encourage more people to join at it?

And if in that case, bitcoin doesn't go up and their investment loses, how would you explain it to them? Why try to lie to them? What benefit do we get from that? You will be a scammer if you don't talk about the risks of investing in bitcoin, not only that it can damage bitcoin's reputation.

Quote from: dezoel on February 14, 2023, 03:50:09 PM

Bitcoin is actually the most safest crypto because its value can always recover and it is decentralized so we are sure that no people behind it will pull the plug and scam the investors but I like the rest of your advice.

Yes, it is the safest cryptocurrency in the crypto industry, but what proof do you have to show them bitcoin is absolutely safe and risk free? In the past, bitcoin has always increased in price after every drop, but is there any evidence that bitcoin will increase in price in the future? We don't have that proof.

panganib999

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When it comes to educating someone about crypto, it's very important that you let them know of the dangers that come with investing in this volatile market. Props to you for never missing that. It's more important being upfront about it and saving yourself of the trouble and the blame when shit hits the fan and he loses a considerable amount of money through investing than you keeping the truth from him just to reel him into the industry. In any case, since I reckon you're a seasoned trader, I suggest you help him as well with the ins and outs of investing so he could get himself a reliable mentor.

Quote from: dezoel on February 14, 2023, 03:50:09 PM

If they heard crypto through the sources that you listed, then what is the difference of it from us when I think all of us do also started like that. Like me for example, I heard crypto through a friend but that didn't convinced me at first. I then saw it again on an ad online and that is the time I made a move to research and try it. But, sorry because I think your response about Bitcoin to your friend is wrong.

You shouldn't say that it was high risk because how can we encourage more people to join at it? Bitcoin is actually the most safest crypto because its value can always recover and it is decentralized so we are sure that no people behind it will pull the plug and scam the investors but I like the rest of your advice.

I get where you're coming from but to me this doesn't look like fearmongering at all. If anything I'd do the same thing as him because first and foremost, you don't wanna lie on your friends let alone over money. Second, that sets his expectations up so he doesn't get any idea that bitcoin or investing for that matter is all rainbows and butterflies and winning huge sums of money over trading. There's a huge risk with money on the line here, it's just fair that you know what you're getting yourself into, pronto.

Sanitough

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Quote from: kryptqnick on February 13, 2023, 11:22:37 AM

It's great that the op mentioned the high risk of investing in Bitcoin and importance of being ready for long-term holding. It's also good that the money was withdrawn from the exchange, and the new investor now knows the rule of 'not your keys, not your coins'.
I hope the part about risks didn't sound like there's a guarantee that long-term holding will bring profits, though, because there isn't. We can believe that Bitcoin will recover, but history doesn't always repeat itself, and nobody knows what the future really holds.

Op did a great job really by informing his neighbor first about the risks involved when investing into bitcoin. But I think it seems that his neighbor was quite aggressive to invest in bitcoin because he eventually purchased a portion of bitcoin even when he has not made a thorough research about it. I just hope that he won’t blame OP in the future if ever his investment will not work well because we all know bitcoin investment is not all about profits. Sometimes you have to endure some losses at first and when you have overcome all of those, eventually you will learn on how to invest for profits by hodling it long term and never get bothered by price drops.

dezoel

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If they heard crypto through the sources that you listed, then what is the difference of it from us when I think all of us do also started like that. Like me for example, I heard crypto through a friend but that didn't convinced me at first. I then saw it again on an ad online and that is the time I made a move to research and try it. But, sorry because I think your response about Bitcoin to your friend is wrong.

You shouldn't say that it was high risk because how can we encourage more people to join at it? Bitcoin is actually the most safest crypto because its value can always recover and it is decentralized so we are sure that no people behind it will pull the plug and scam the investors but I like the rest of your advice.

uneng

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Quote from: Strongkored on February 14, 2023, 01:31:39 AM

Starting an investment by having to pay a cost that is half the value of the investment must be said to be a bad start, which is why I don't really like it when many people keep trying to teach the closest people to start owning Bitcoin but forget to teach things basic like that, but whatever it is that's the right of Op and his friends but I hope Op doesn't repeat that because it's detrimental.
Teaching those closest to you to start saving in the form of Bitcoin will be very good if accompanied by sufficient knowledge so that the goal of helping the community will actually be achieved.

Quote from: kro55 on February 14, 2023, 05:08:20 AM

hough I know it's not a good idea to store assets on exchanges, I really disagree with OP's approach. As a newbie with small capital, they will not be willing and satisfied to accept such a loss, this will make them uncomfortable and very easily lead to negative thoughts. In my opinion in this case, if OP can't sell bitcoins directly to him, then we should leave bitcoin on Binance, and we will move them to the non-custodial wallet on the next purchase when the number of bitcoins our more.

If OP's friend start doing DCA, he will be constantly losing 50% of his investment every new purchase on Binance, due to fees on withdrawals. That is an impractical method to accumulate bitcoin holdings on long term. If OP can't sell him bitcoins directly, I believe he could find someone reputable here on forum who is constantly selling coins to take part in the negotiation, because to keep assets on exchanges can put OP in a bad position with his friend, in case something like what happened with FTX happens to Binance.

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Quote from: yudi09 on February 14, 2023, 06:52:59 AM

Quote from: Nwada001 on February 13, 2023, 05:44:28 AM

He asked me why not just leave the coin on Binance so that when ever he wants to sell it, he can just use the same method; that's when I brought to his notice "Not your key, not your coin," and he was convinced.

That's a good explanation of the question. Storing assets such as Bitcoin in exchange wallets is highly discouraged by various considerations that can make assets disappear without a guarantee. What's worse is that assets can be frozen despite the stability of the coins stored.
Continue to convey various knowledge about Bitcoin to anyone who is deemed necessary to explain including how to keep Bitcoin safe.

And hopefully, his friend will take his advice to move his bitcoins to another wallet so he can keep full control over them. But many people still keep their bitcoins on exchanges in the hope that they can sell them for a profit. But indeed, whatever our decision about where we store bitcoins will be the responsibility of each, and hopefully, we will know which one we should choose for the safety of our bitcoins.

Perhaps, @OP can invite more people to use bitcoin and learn together to get more knowledge. It will be useful for him, and he can also start creating a group of people who learn about Bitcoin together.

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Quote from: Nwada001 on February 13, 2023, 05:44:28 AM

He asked me why not just leave the coin on Binance so that when ever he wants to sell it, he can just use the same method; that's when I brought to his notice "Not your key, not your coin," and he was convinced.

He invested so little and is already asking about how and when to sell. You should encourage your neighbor also that asides the need to keep his bitcoins safe, there is also no need to be in a hurry to want to sell because bitcoin is not something to invest in for the short while. I commend you for your actions but encourage you to keep up with your neighbor, so he does become discouraged while trying to hold his bitcoins and also so he understands better that bitcoins is not something to turn someone into a sudden millionaire and if he is already gainfully employed, he should not have the idea of quitting to come face this new thing you have introduced to him. Good job OP introducing someone to bitcoins.

Natalim

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Quote from: yudi09 on February 14, 2023, 06:52:59 AM

Quote from: Nwada001 on February 13, 2023, 05:44:28 AM

He asked me why not just leave the coin on Binance so that when ever he wants to sell it, he can just use the same method; that's when I brought to his notice "Not your key, not your coin," and he was convinced.

That's a good explanation of the question. Storing assets such as Bitcoin in exchange wallets is highly discouraged by various considerations that can make assets disappear without a guarantee. What's worse is that assets can be frozen despite the stability of the coins stored.
Continue to convey various knowledge about Bitcoin to anyone who is deemed necessary to explain including how to keep Bitcoin safe.

It could be their choice but yes, we have to educate them about the risk of storing our funds on the exchange because even if it was a known and reputable exchange like Binance, we can't assure that our money is safe from possible hacks and not even sure if they will refund if that will happen. Considering this situation, we better secure it with our controlled wallet which I think was safer than we keep on an exchange wallet.

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Quote from: kro55 on February 14, 2023, 05:08:20 AM

Quote from: uneng on February 13, 2023, 07:14:36 PM

Congratulations for introducing your friend to bitcoin. The only downside I see is that he has bought 100,000 satoshis on Binance, and withdrew it to a mobile wallet, so he had to pay 50,000 satoshis in fees to execute that transaction, right? That means 50% of the investment already gone to transaction's fees... Next time it would be a better idea if you simply avoided the exchange thing, selling bitcoin yourself directly to him through P2P transaction.

It means less fees, more convenience and holdings' maximization.

Although I know it's not a good idea to store assets on exchanges, I really disagree with OP's approach. As a newbie with small capital, they will not be willing and satisfied to accept such a loss, this will make them uncomfortable and very easily lead to negative thoughts. In my opinion in this case, if OP can't sell bitcoins directly to him, then we should leave bitcoin on Binance, and we will move them to the non-custodial wallet on the next purchase when the number of bitcoins our more.

Not good idea for thinking this as an alternative wallet since we know how it will end up even if they are reputable. We experience huge collapsed of famous exchange before so we don't want people get scam and experience this again. But since maybe this is just for a start since next step with that is they can start to learn how to trade, good thing they are in Binance since this is top one and reliable exchange at the moment where they could practice to learn more skills about trading their bought coin.

yudi09

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Quote from: Nwada001 on February 13, 2023, 05:44:28 AM

He asked me why not just leave the coin on Binance so that when ever he wants to sell it, he can just use the same method; that's when I brought to his notice "Not your key, not your coin," and he was convinced.

That's a good explanation of the question. Storing assets such as Bitcoin in exchange wallets is highly discouraged by various considerations that can make assets disappear without a guarantee. What's worse is that assets can be frozen despite the stability of the coins stored.
Continue to convey various knowledge about Bitcoin to anyone who is deemed necessary to explain including how to keep Bitcoin safe.

kro55

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Quote from: uneng on February 13, 2023, 07:14:36 PM

Congratulations for introducing your friend to bitcoin. The only downside I see is that he has bought 100,000 satoshis on Binance, and withdrew it to a mobile wallet, so he had to pay 50,000 satoshis in fees to execute that transaction, right? That means 50% of the investment already gone to transaction's fees... Next time it would be a better idea if you simply avoided the exchange thing, selling bitcoin yourself directly to him through P2P transaction.

It means less fees, more convenience and holdings' maximization.

Although I know it's not a good idea to store assets on exchanges, I really disagree with OP's approach. As a newbie with small capital, they will not be willing and satisfied to accept such a loss, this will make them uncomfortable and very easily lead to negative thoughts. In my opinion in this case, if OP can't sell bitcoins directly to him, then we should leave bitcoin on Binance, and we will move them to the non-custodial wallet on the next purchase when the number of bitcoins our more.

karmamiu

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Quote from: Strongkored on February 14, 2023, 01:31:39 AM

Quote from: uneng on February 13, 2023, 07:14:36 PM

Congratulations for introducing your friend to bitcoin. The only downside I see is that he has bought 100,000 satoshis on Binance, and withdrew it to a mobile wallet, so he had to pay 50,000 satoshis in fees to execute that transaction, right? That means 50% of the investment already gone to transaction's fees... Next time it would be a better idea if you simply avoided the exchange thing, selling bitcoin yourself directly to him through P2P transaction.

It means less fees, more convenience and holdings' maximization.

Starting an investment by having to pay a cost that is half the value of the investment must be said to be a bad start, which is why I don't really like it when many people keep trying to teach the closest people to start owning Bitcoin but forget to teach things basic like that, but whatever it is that's the right of Op and his friends but I hope Op doesn't repeat that because it's detrimental.
Teaching those closest to you to start saving in the form of Bitcoin will be very good if accompanied by sufficient knowledge so that the goal of helping the community will actually be achieved.

Or he could use other means such as alternative coins with lower transaction fees such as XRP to transfer from one wallet to another. I know that there are some wallets that doesn't support XRP, but I think there are several trusted wallets that offers such features. Again, this is only my opinion and I agree with both of you that it is a bad start losing half of his investments even if we say that it is spare cash ready for gamble.

SFR10

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Quote from: Nwada001 on February 13, 2023, 05:44:28 AM

since he was already participating in airdrops and had a crypto wallet on his phone. I asked him to copy out all the phrases from the old wallet into his mobile wallet and back it up in a safe place where he would be the only one to access it. When he was done, I asked him to wipe the app data, and the mobile wallet was as clean as a new wallet.

If the highlighted part means he imported the seed phrases from the previous wallet ^{[most likely it was a multi-cryptocurrency wallet (most of them aren't really safe)]} into a new one, then you should've instructed him to transfer or rather send whatever funds/coins he has to the new wallet instead ^{[regardless of what you've described in the latter part]}!

Quote from: Nwada001 on February 13, 2023, 05:44:28 AM

switch off the internet connection and create a new wallet again. After the successful creation of the wallet, I asked him to write down the new phrase and safe-keep it again, which he did successfully. We then generated a new Bitcoin address, which was used to withdraw the purchased Bitcoin to his private wallet, over which he has control.

AFAICS, your friend doesn't have a spare phone and some of the steps you've taken, provide little to no protection if he uses the same device to connect to the internet and click on things he's not supposed to click.

Strongkored

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Quote from: uneng on February 13, 2023, 07:14:36 PM

Congratulations for introducing your friend to bitcoin. The only downside I see is that he has bought 100,000 satoshis on Binance, and withdrew it to a mobile wallet, so he had to pay 50,000 satoshis in fees to execute that transaction, right? That means 50% of the investment already gone to transaction's fees... Next time it would be a better idea if you simply avoided the exchange thing, selling bitcoin yourself directly to him through P2P transaction.

It means less fees, more convenience and holdings' maximization.

Starting an investment by having to pay a cost that is half the value of the investment must be said to be a bad start, which is why I don't really like it when many people keep trying to teach the closest people to start owning Bitcoin but forget to teach things basic like that, but whatever it is that's the right of Op and his friends but I hope Op doesn't repeat that because it's detrimental.
Teaching those closest to you to start saving in the form of Bitcoin will be very good if accompanied by sufficient knowledge so that the goal of helping the community will actually be achieved.

noorman0

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Quote from: sheenshane on February 13, 2023, 09:52:19 AM

-sinp-
but seems it's risky because you are using a mobile wallet which is still prone to scams, most especially personal mobile phones that every day you've used.

Or more than that, actually some omissions can be a beginner's risk. Storing coins in a noncustodial wallet requires special lessons to really get not only the basic knowledge, but also their awareness of why it is important to do it on all occasions even if it's trivial. Moreover they have to create their own wallet without further guidance to maintain confidentiality.

Oasisman

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Quote from: Mate2237 on February 13, 2023, 08:05:54 AM

Op you don't have to tell the forum because you helped someone to buy bitcoin. It looks like merit hunting and that is it. I came to understand that every newbies are using two ways to hunt for merit. 1. Teaching people, or students about bitcoin then post it here, 2. Buying of bitcoin which is the latest on board now. And I believe most of them are from one continent, and region.

Op from the evidence you show here, really you bought the asset but it is because of merit you bought it and not because you want to hodle or invest. I bought bitcoin from p2p every week before and I have not post it here. Well I will still advise you to move the coin from binance to a non custodian wallet.

It does look like merit hunting to me as well, since the story could just end right after he posted it here because there were no questions asked or asked the community if he did the right steps.
In fairness for the OP, posts like this could also be an encouragement for the others to go ahead and try to teach others, help them purchase their very first Bitcoin, if your they become interested in what you do.
Nevertheless, if this post is a merit hunting or not, it's not gonna be big issue. We can always opt not to give merits to posts that we think it's not worth even a single one.

uneng

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Congratulations for introducing your friend to bitcoin. The only downside I see is that he has bought 100,000 satoshis on Binance, and withdrew it to a mobile wallet, so he had to pay 50,000 satoshis in fees to execute that transaction, right? That means 50% of the investment already gone to transaction's fees... Next time it would be a better idea if you simply avoided the exchange thing, selling bitcoin yourself directly to him through P2P transaction.

It means less fees, more convenience and holdings' maximization.

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Quote from: BALIK on February 13, 2023, 08:35:11 AM

Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't agree to buy bitcoins for him, he said he was ready to take the risk and take responsibility because he was very excited and wanted to own bitcoin at the time. Maybe you mention the risks, but he won't understand because he hasn't experienced it, and if unfortunately, the investment loses, he will most likely come back to blame you because it was you who took the money to buy bitcoins, not him.

Try to teach him all the necessary knowledge about bitcoin so that he better understands the pros and cons of investing in bitcoin, only when he understands it can't blame you.

Although I must commend you on your own efforts from teaching and guiding him in his crypto journey, but you should have introduced him first into the bitcointalk forum so that he will know eventually how risky it is to invest in bitcoin. Afterwards, after he understood about bitcoin investment and he’s still willing to invest, that could be the perfect time to purchase his first bitcoin with his own money. And not that he purchased first and then gained knowledge after because it’s like he is likely to blame you in the future when his investment turns out into failure.

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