HERE IS ANOTHER IMPORTANT THREAD TELLING YOU NOT TO MINE WITH DEEPBIT

theymos

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Quote from: MoonShadow on June 08, 2011, 07:38:19 AM

No, not really. Having 51% of the total network hashing power only gives you about a half a percentage point of success, it just makes it possible. Even with 51%, a double spend is pretty hard to get away with.

Actually, with 51% you can stop all other generators from making blocks, which makes double-spending easy.

I'm not too worried in this case, though.

Ulysses

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Quote from: rb1205 on June 08, 2011, 08:47:51 AM

Right. I mean, why in the earth would a big country want to destroy the faith in bitcoins?

By hacking deepbit? This seems much less plausible to me, than BTC hitting $1 000 000.

rezin777

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Quote from: mjsbuddha on June 08, 2011, 01:36:28 AM

children, seriously, you are spamming up the forum with your naive blathering. if tycho tries anything fishy with his pool, it will instantly dissolve like a tab of acid on the tongue as the people in his pool flee. tycho is making 3% off of his 50% share of the network. that means hes personally getting 1.5% of all the bitcoins generated right now. you think he would risk that to fake some piddly 50 bitcoin blocks? the people that post these threads are so very profoundly stupid.

So there is no one on the planet with any motivation to destroy Bitcoin?

First of all, it doesn't have to be Tycho (and I don't think it would be). I guess governments have never forced people to do what they want? I guess websites have never been hacked?

Second, it isn't about the double spend. It's about the public's trust in the network. You know, the people who buy coins making this whole thing worthwhile in the first place. Are you willing to risk that trust, when there is no need, just because you trust one guy's ability to protect his pool from someone that would want to harm the network? I think its naive to place trust in ANYTHING involving money.

Third. When deepbit was first DDOSed recently, the network solved 2 blocks in 50 minutes. "Hey Bitcoin has fast transactions (as long as deepbit is running smooth)." What a fantastic selling point.

Asking for a healthy network isn't so terrible, is it? Are the people posting these threads really "profoundly stupid", or just calling for a little common sense?

rb1205

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Quote from: Ulysses on June 08, 2011, 07:45:21 AM

This doesn't apply to states, but US hacking deepbit to do a double spend seems to be absurd to me.

Right. I mean, why in the earth would a big country want to destroy the faith in bitcoins?

Ulysses

newbie

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Did you read Satoshi's paper?

The incentive may help encourage nodes to stay honest. If a greedy attacker is able to
assemble more CPU power than all the honest nodes, he would have to choose between using it
to defraud people by stealing back his payments, or using it to generate new coins. He ought to
find it more profitable to play by the rules, such rules that favour him with more new coins than
everyone else combined, than to undermine the system and the validity of his own wealth.

This applies both to Tycho, possible attacker, bankers and all other capitalists. This doesn't apply to states, but US hacking deepbit to do a double spend seems to be absurd to me.

If the security of bitcoin is dependent on goodwill of one person, then bitcoin is a bad idea. I believe in bitcoin and don't believe on their dependency on Tycho or any other man.

MoonShadow

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Quote from: lemonginger on June 08, 2011, 01:51:58 AM

Also, 50% is not really tipping point, right? You could run doublespends at 45% or whatever just with less chance of success.

No, not really. Having 51% of the total network hashing power only gives you about a half a percentage point of success, it just makes it possible. Even with 51%, a double spend is pretty hard to get away with.

rb1205

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Quote from: d.james on June 08, 2011, 01:52:24 AM

Why would ppl flee from his pool, if tycho is giving them EXTRA FREE MONEY?
I would certainly expect more people to join him if his pool is paying 200% extra!

After all, if it wasn't for the greed, you'd all be Folding for a greater cause.

Which is exactly what i fear most. Let's forget about deepbit and tycho for a bit; what would happen if a malicious user creates a pool that gives, say, 200% bonus to every miner? He would easily get >>50% hashing power as honest pool owners obviously cannot compete. At that point, he could easily launch a huge double-spending attack to make for all the bogus bonuses he gave away and much more.

Isn't this a possibility?

Rob P.

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It seems folks are missing the point.

Forging a block isn't about getting an extra 50 coins. Forging a block is about double-spending coins.

If the only benefit is getting an extra 50 coins, you're right, no one in their right mind would do it.

However, if forging a block allows for spending an extra 10,000 coins, without actually losing the coins, do you think they'd do it?

See Block Chain and Confirmations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin

bcpokey

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Quote from: mjsbuddha on June 08, 2011, 01:43:58 AM

Quote from: bcpokey on June 08, 2011, 01:39:30 AM

Quote from: mjsbuddha on June 08, 2011, 01:36:28 AM

children, seriously, you are spamming up the forum with your naive blathering. if tycho tries anything fishy with his pool, it will instantly dissolve like a tab of acid on the tongue as the people in his pool flee. tycho is making 3% off of his 50% share of the network. that means hes personally getting 1.5% of all the bitcoins generated right now. you think he would risk that to fake some piddly 50 bitcoin blocks? the people that post these threads are so very profoundly stupid.

Prove it.

Let's say hypothetically tycho forks the block chain about 1000 times, and blocks all the other pools from getting any confirmations of blocks. 5000 people who never read the forums or watch the block chain or know anything other than "my stats are goin up at a fantastic rate!" are going to stop mining on deepbit because...?

Your post sounds the most profoundly stupid to me.

1) what would tycho gain from forking the block chain 1000 times? hes making more money by not doing that.
2) if these hypothetical people don't read the forums, how did they learn about tycho's pool to begin with?

the unsuccessful always try to punish the successful

Way to answer the question, by saying "oh it just wouldn't happen."

Do you think all bitcoin users learn about bitcoin from these forums? I didn't, I came here only after I had been mining for some time already. Most of the new users are learning about bitcoin from news articles, or their friends, or gaming clan members or whatever. Most have little to no vested interest in the long term of bitcoin as is evidenced by the days of entreaties towards not giving deepbit blockchain authority being unheeded.

There are about 20,000 miners roughly, give or take, which means deepbit has roughly 10000 people mining (he can provide better stats than myself this is an estimate of course) for him, I was generously suggesting that even half of them would be reading the forum regularly (the highest amount of users on the forums at any one time was 1900, right now its about 1200).

Again, by what evidence do you suggest that most of these people who do not actively participate beyond collecting their virtual booty would be aware of a problem with the blockchain and would therefore "vaporize deepbit"?

EDIT: No srs...

anatolikostis

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The (Matr...) DeepBit has you .... Grin

d.james

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Firstbits: 12pqwk

Quote from: mjsbuddha on June 08, 2011, 01:36:28 AM

children, seriously, you are spamming up the forum with your naive blathering. if tycho tries anything fishy with his pool, it will instantly dissolve like a tab of acid on the tongue as the people in his pool flee.

Why would ppl flee from his pool, if tycho is giving them EXTRA FREE MONEY?
I would certainly expect more people to join him if his pool is paying 200% extra!

After all, if it wasn't for the greed, you'd all be Folding for a greater cause.

lemonginger

full member

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firstbits: 121vnq

i would generally agree that if you are relying on anyone's goodwill, then BC is doomed. That being said, this could be an interesting stress test. We are still pretty much in an alpha stage of this whole project after all.

Also, 50% is not really tipping point, right? You could run doublespends at 45% or whatever just with less chance of success.

Genrobo

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Quote from: bullox on June 08, 2011, 01:49:04 AM

Quote from: mjsbuddha on June 08, 2011, 01:43:58 AM

Quote from: bcpokey on June 08, 2011, 01:39:30 AM

Quote from: mjsbuddha on June 08, 2011, 01:36:28 AM

children, seriously, you are spamming up the forum with your naive blathering. if tycho tries anything fishy with his pool, it will instantly dissolve like a tab of acid on the tongue as the people in his pool flee. tycho is making 3% off of his 50% share of the network. that means hes personally getting 1.5% of all the bitcoins generated right now. you think he would risk that to fake some piddly 50 bitcoin blocks? the people that post these threads are so very profoundly stupid.

Prove it.

Let's say hypothetically tycho forks the block chain about 1000 times, and blocks all the other pools from getting any confirmations of blocks. 5000 people who never read the forums or watch the block chain or know anything other than "my stats are goin up at a fantastic rate!" are going to stop mining on deepbit because...?

Your post sounds the most profoundly stupid to me.

1) what would tycho gain from forking the block chain 1000 times? hes making more money by not doing that.
2) if these hypothetical people don't read the forums, how did they learn about tycho's pool to begin with?

the unsuccessful always try to punish the successful

Imagine if you will, that HP came out with a new printer that could print authentic $USD bills.

Do you think that there would be some deflation of the currency as noone would be able to tell if a $20 was authentic or not? Do you think anyone in their right mind would invest in a set amount of the currency when it had no way of being empricially verified to be true anymore?

It hurts everyone who uses bitcoin to have someone who is egrigiously violating the spirit of bitcoin's distributed nature.

Dude, HP releaed that printer model like 3 years ago...
Where have you been?

bullox

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Quote from: mjsbuddha on June 08, 2011, 01:43:58 AM

Quote from: bcpokey on June 08, 2011, 01:39:30 AM

Quote from: mjsbuddha on June 08, 2011, 01:36:28 AM

children, seriously, you are spamming up the forum with your naive blathering. if tycho tries anything fishy with his pool, it will instantly dissolve like a tab of acid on the tongue as the people in his pool flee. tycho is making 3% off of his 50% share of the network. that means hes personally getting 1.5% of all the bitcoins generated right now. you think he would risk that to fake some piddly 50 bitcoin blocks? the people that post these threads are so very profoundly stupid.

Prove it.

Let's say hypothetically tycho forks the block chain about 1000 times, and blocks all the other pools from getting any confirmations of blocks. 5000 people who never read the forums or watch the block chain or know anything other than "my stats are goin up at a fantastic rate!" are going to stop mining on deepbit because...?

Your post sounds the most profoundly stupid to me.

1) what would tycho gain from forking the block chain 1000 times? hes making more money by not doing that.
2) if these hypothetical people don't read the forums, how did they learn about tycho's pool to begin with?

the unsuccessful always try to punish the successful

Imagine if you will, that HP came out with a new printer that could print authentic $USD bills.

Do you think that there would be some deflation of the currency as noone would be able to tell if a $20 was authentic or not? Do you think anyone in their right mind would invest in a set amount of the currency when it had no way of being empricially verified to be true anymore?

It hurts everyone who uses bitcoin to have someone who is egrigiously violating the spirit of bitcoin's distributed nature.

mjsbuddha

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

yung lean

Quote from: str4wm4n on June 08, 2011, 01:46:55 AM

tupaccoin

thank you tupac, for reminding me to not feed the trolls.

Genrobo

newbie

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I think the people in this thread have been buying off the silk road too much...
Wink

str4wm4n

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tupaccoin

Chick

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Quote from: bcpokey on June 08, 2011, 01:34:06 AM

Bitcoin is now paccoin.

LOL. Look what you deepbit miners have put us into!

tripper22

full member

Activity: 188

Merit: 100

Quote from: mjsbuddha on June 08, 2011, 01:43:58 AM

Quote from: bcpokey on June 08, 2011, 01:39:30 AM

Quote from: mjsbuddha on June 08, 2011, 01:36:28 AM

children, seriously, you are spamming up the forum with your naive blathering. if tycho tries anything fishy with his pool, it will instantly dissolve like a tab of acid on the tongue as the people in his pool flee. tycho is making 3% off of his 50% share of the network. that means hes personally getting 1.5% of all the bitcoins generated right now. you think he would risk that to fake some piddly 50 bitcoin blocks? the people that post these threads are so very profoundly stupid.

Prove it.

Let's say hypothetically tycho forks the block chain about 1000 times, and blocks all the other pools from getting any confirmations of blocks. 5000 people who never read the forums or watch the block chain or know anything other than "my stats are goin up at a fantastic rate!" are going to stop mining on deepbit because...?

Your post sounds the most profoundly stupid to me.

1) what would tycho gain from forking the block chain 1000 times? hes making more money by not doing that.
2) if these hypothetical people don't read the forums, how did they learn about tycho's pool to begin with?

the unsuccessful always try to punish the successful

You just don't get it do you? Network security comes first. After that nothing else matters.

mjsbuddha

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

yung lean

Quote from: bcpokey on June 08, 2011, 01:39:30 AM

Quote from: mjsbuddha on June 08, 2011, 01:36:28 AM

children, seriously, you are spamming up the forum with your naive blathering. if tycho tries anything fishy with his pool, it will instantly dissolve like a tab of acid on the tongue as the people in his pool flee. tycho is making 3% off of his 50% share of the network. that means hes personally getting 1.5% of all the bitcoins generated right now. you think he would risk that to fake some piddly 50 bitcoin blocks? the people that post these threads are so very profoundly stupid.

Prove it.

Let's say hypothetically tycho forks the block chain about 1000 times, and blocks all the other pools from getting any confirmations of blocks. 5000 people who never read the forums or watch the block chain or know anything other than "my stats are goin up at a fantastic rate!" are going to stop mining on deepbit because...?

Your post sounds the most profoundly stupid to me.

1) what would tycho gain from forking the block chain 1000 times? hes making more money by not doing that.
2) if these hypothetical people don't read the forums, how did they learn about tycho's pool to begin with?

the unsuccessful always try to punish the successful

Topic: HERE IS ANOTHER IMPORTANT THREAD TELLING YOU NOT TO MINE WITH DEEPBIT (Read 2861 times)