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Topic: Here’s the Case for Bitcoin (BTC) Rise to $180,000, According to Weiss Ratings - page 2. (Read 647 times)

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: fabiorem on June 26, 2020, 08:36:38 AM

Safe-haven asset? Are they delusional?
Came COVID-19 and bitcoin was the second most affected asset, losing only to flight companies.
Of course it recovered, but the correlation with the legacy markets showed its no safe haven, as any crisis hitting them will also be hitting bitcoin.
This last crisis was similar to 2008, with the difference that this time it was enforced by governments. It was the 2008 crisis which prompted the creation of bitcoin, to act as a barrier against such crisis.

Bitcoin IS a safe-haven. Society would have less dependence on their government maintaining monetary stablity because we have the fall-back. Hyperinflation in Iran, Venezuela, and Zimbabwe are examples.

exstasie

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Quote from: BrewMaster on June 26, 2020, 11:27:08 AM

Quote from: fabiorem on June 26, 2020, 08:36:38 AM

Of course it recovered, but the correlation with the legacy markets showed its no safe haven, as any crisis hitting them will also be hitting bitcoin.

i am still not convinced of this correlation which some people seem to have already accepted without any convincing evidence.

I'm baffled by this sort of denialism. The evidence is the correlation itself. BTC is following the stock market almost exactly:

Any divergences have been slight and generally occur when the stock markets are closed. This can all be verified with a correlation calculator too.

You can argue the markets will de-correlate but you can't argue a correlation doesn't exist.

dothebeats

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Cashback 15%

Doesn't Weiss rating generally side over towards unproven cryptocurrencies rather than favoring bitcoin despite the obvious advantage of the latter over the former? Anyway, more and more institutional investors are checking out bitcoin because there aren't many places for their money to go in the mean time where risk-to-reward ratio is good enough to take. They are just this confident on bitcoin today because it is performing well compared to their other babies which have taken a beating in the course of the pandemic. These guys would be gone when the world economy recovers and when they milk the shit out of the current bitcoin cycle, trust me.

BrewMaster

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Quote from: fabiorem on June 26, 2020, 08:36:38 AM

Of course it recovered, but the correlation with the legacy markets showed its no safe haven, as any crisis hitting them will also be hitting bitcoin.

i am still not convinced of this correlation which some people seem to have already accepted without any convincing evidence.

the drop was not even a new thing, we had a pretty fresh one with the size of -40% right before COVID19 even began. there was another even bigger drop which came to a total of nearly 50% right before that (mid 2019).

so where is the correlation in that? why are you people selecting 1 drop out of 3 and make the conclusion based on it?
what was the stock market doing during those drops? booming. what was stock market doing during early 2019 when bitcoin price had 3 major rises of total 250%? nothing. so where is the correlation again?

Reid

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And still, there is the "profit potential" which means a lot.
They will just withdraw all of that bitcoin some time which leaves bitcoin what?

Another fall to $3k value.
Because of that, a lot of supporters of bitcoin will really think that it is just for profit-making tool and not as the future currency.
So what does it leave the value of bitcoin after all supporters are gone?
Another dust.

Perhaps they should change the way they look at things and not just for making another $.

fabiorem

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Wind_FURY

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Quote from: exstasie on June 26, 2020, 05:49:18 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on June 25, 2020, 05:28:10 AM

Quote from: exstasie on June 24, 2020, 03:19:40 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on June 24, 2020, 03:05:55 AM

Bitcoin has never crashed, and stayed under its 200-week SMA. Cool

Here is a thought experiment: what if BTC crashes below the 200-week MA (currently ~$6,075) and stays there? Will that change your long term bullish view?

Crashes below, and stays there for more than 3 years, yes, it will change my bullish view, but only on the price/market.

3 years eh? That seems rather arbitrary. Tongue

It's personal based on my own psychology. I believe others would be more masochistic, and wait 30 years before changing their view. Haha.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on June 25, 2020, 05:28:10 AM

It won't change my bullish view in Bitcoin as a decentralized, censorship-resistant cryptocurrency for self-sovereignty.

Here's the trouble with that. Price reflects supply and demand. If nobody is using BTC (thus the multi-year bear market)

Zoom out.

Quote

it's not all that useful for self-sovereignty is it? Tongue

It's not? Try to make the government take my Bitcoin, or anyone's. Cool

Quote

Just playing devil's advocate.

But did the technology change your viewpoint on "money", and "moneyness"?

exstasie

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on June 25, 2020, 05:28:10 AM

Quote from: exstasie on June 24, 2020, 03:19:40 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on June 24, 2020, 03:05:55 AM

Bitcoin has never crashed, and stayed under its 200-week SMA. Cool

Here is a thought experiment: what if BTC crashes below the 200-week MA (currently ~$6,075) and stays there? Will that change your long term bullish view?

Crashes below, and stays there for more than 3 years, yes, it will change my bullish view, but only on the price/market.

3 years eh? That seems rather arbitrary. Tongue

Time is so unpredictable. While I don't give it a particularly high probability of happening, xxxx123abcxxxx's bearish case (his chart indicates price, not time) could put us in a bearish super cycle (to sub-$1K) for several years, before an eventual new bullish super cycle to ATHs. That would certainly wash out much of the current crop of perma bulls!

Quote from: xxxx123abcxxxx on March 12, 2020, 09:35:45 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on June 25, 2020, 05:28:10 AM

It won't change my bullish view in Bitcoin as a decentralized, censorship-resistant cryptocurrency for self-sovereignty.

Here's the trouble with that. Price reflects supply and demand. If nobody is using BTC (thus the multi-year bear market) it's not all that useful for self-sovereignty is it? Tongue

Just playing devil's advocate.

gentlemand

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Quote from: el kaka22 on June 25, 2020, 12:53:41 PM

Right now not even the whole crypto market is like that, so it is quite unthinkable for bitcoin to reach those levels anytime soon.

10% of one stock market in one country vs something that is open to anyone anywhere 24/7 with internet access. That's over 3 billion people.

Your comparison has failed to give me a boner.

People really need to reframe their thinking here. The comprehension of sizeable numbers really isn't our strong point. Zoom out and add it up properly.

It's the same as these people shrieking about the market needing to buy $8 million of mined coins a day to 'maintain the price', not that it actually needs to. If people could be arsed to figure it out that adds up to $40,000 per country per day. Holleeee shit.

el kaka22

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If the price of bitcoin reaches to 180 thousand dollars per bitcoin that means bitcoin market cap (and not crypto, I mean literally just bitcoin) would reach to 10% of all stock market in USA. That means Nasdaq, Nyse, OTC combine every single stock market in all of USA that is around 37 trillion dollars (give or take, changes daily as you know from 30 to 40) and what we are talking about right now is 10% of that if the price reaches 180k since it would mean over 3 trillion dollars in total.

Right now not even the whole crypto market is like that, so it is quite unthinkable for bitcoin to reach those levels anytime soon. In 50 years? Who knows maybe bitcoin will overtake all of investment products and even stock market and become the most invested thing, but for now in the near future it will not get anywhere near that level.

BrewMaster

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Quote from: Ulven on June 25, 2020, 07:20:28 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

At times feel why the price will happen to reach on such a high level when it cannot even cross 10k or 20k in those couple of years back had reached and after that still never achieved anywhere those levels. So even if it has to rise it would be limited to certain levels not like 180k or so. Also achieving 50k prices itself will be a big achievement in next 1-2 years.

Yes my friend we have to wait a long time to achieve some goals above 50 thousand. I think these large prices will be in the future, especially when the mining reward drops to 1.5btc per block!

the rise looks big right now that we have a rather large distance to go and the rises have not yet started. but as soon as they start you can see that it is not far at all. you can compare it with going from $800 to $20,000 in 2017. from $10k to $50k is tiny in comparison.
also another thing with future rises is that they keep getting bigger as the bitcoin growth speeds up.

Taskford

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Quote from: Ulven on June 25, 2020, 07:20:28 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Yes my friend we have to wait a long time to achieve some goals above 50 thousand. I think these large prices will be in the future, especially when the mining reward drops to 1.5btc per block!

That's long time of waiting but It has a possibilities but let see how bitcoins will grow in future if it survives for more decades, I'm sure that there are new technology on financing system will be created and hopefully bitcoins will never get affected on this and continuously grow so that we will see those prediction became reality.

Ulven

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Yes my friend we have to wait a long time to achieve some goals above 50 thousand. I think these large prices will be in the future, especially when the mining reward drops to 1.5btc per block!

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: exstasie on June 24, 2020, 03:19:40 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on June 24, 2020, 03:05:55 AM

Bitcoin has never crashed, and stayed under its 200-week SMA. Cool

Here is a thought experiment: what if BTC crashes below the 200-week MA (currently ~$6,075) and stays there? Will that change your long term bullish view?

Crashes below, and stays there for more than 3 years, yes, it will change my bullish view, but only on the price/market. It won't change my bullish view in Bitcoin as a decentralized, censorship-resistant cryptocurrency for self-sovereignty.

Quote

If not, then what needs to happen in a technical sense for you to question the bulls?

Quantum computers breaking the network with no fix from the Core developers.

kotajikikox

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Quote from: Oasisman on June 24, 2020, 04:46:07 AM

Quote from: TravelMug on June 23, 2020, 09:30:17 PM

Quote from: Oceat on June 23, 2020, 05:14:21 PM

~snip~

$180k is an absurd numbers to me, we can't barely goes to 5 digits without seeing any corrections. What more seeing 6 digits in the next coming years? And the market is on a cycle, boom and bust so it will be hard to achieved it without the bubble being burst, at $10k-30K per pop.

In a long term perspective, $180k ain't far from happening.
Every correction has always a corresponding good recovery. These boom and bust that you mentioned is part of a healthy market movements, this is where traders and investors are able to gain profit.
Nobody was even expecting a 10,000 Bitcoin can only buy a pizza, look how far Bitcoin have come in a span of 10 years.

Only FUDders don't agree about the 6 digits capacity of Bitcoin to increase though we are all talking about whent his could happen.
Basically 5 digits has already done years ago and now the increase is what awaited us all.
Lets hope it will come near because many are already in selling point now.

michellee

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Quote from: exstasie on June 24, 2020, 03:19:40 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on June 24, 2020, 03:05:55 AM

Bitcoin has never crashed, and stayed under its 200-week SMA. Cool

Here is a thought experiment: what if BTC crashes below the 200-week MA (currently ~$6,075) and stays there? Will that change your long term bullish view?

If not, then what needs to happen in a technical sense for you to question the bulls?

I am okay if the price crashes and stays at $6,075, and I do not change my long term bullish because of that. I will still wait for the bullish trend, no matter if that needs a long time than before. I already wait for more than 2 years, so waiting for more will not be a problem Grin

Nothing to happen in a technical because, in the end, the bulls will come, and I am sure it will happen not too long.

TravelMug

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Quote from: Oasisman on June 24, 2020, 04:46:07 AM

Quote from: TravelMug on June 23, 2020, 09:30:17 PM

Quote from: Oceat on June 23, 2020, 05:14:21 PM

~snip~

I'm not saying that the cycle of boom and bust are that bad for the market, but it did REKT a lot of investors specially noobs and only the abled traders survived that crash in 2017 and stay here. And as the market mature, others may learn their lessons but majority would be irrational that thinking $180k could happen in the next 5-10 years.

The pizza analogy though for me is out of context, I mean he did that to prove something early in the days.

dunfida

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Quote from: Oasisman on June 24, 2020, 04:46:07 AM

Quote from: TravelMug on June 23, 2020, 09:30:17 PM

Quote from: Oceat on June 23, 2020, 05:14:21 PM

~snip~

You got some point but you should at least consider on the current value we are in.This isnt something thats similar on cent price that we do have wayback or a few hundred of dollars.
We are already almost in 10k price and thinking of that we would shoot up to $180k or shall we say 18x the price then we must consider on what level of adoption we do need
before reaching those numbers.$50k is already hard to believe but no one really beats out that 1M per coin prediction made by McAfee.
This is just an another example of unrealistic speculations flying around.

exstasie

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on June 24, 2020, 03:05:55 AM

Bitcoin has never crashed, and stayed under its 200-week SMA. Cool

ene1980

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Quote from: gentlemand on June 24, 2020, 03:58:50 AM

~
Four years ago, let alone five or more years ago, if you'd told everyone here we'd be bored shitless around $10,000 people would rip your knickers off and set them on fire. Humans always massively overestimate the short term and humongously underestimate the long term.

It is true by the way in which people are really frustrated the price of bitcoin is stuck around $10k and in the past i never thought we would see those valuation this quickly and i still remember me waiting for the price to cross thousand dollars again and that was testing my patience for a very long time and 4 to 5 years down the line people are waiting for the price to crosss $10k, it is really crazy and we might see the one hundred thousand valuation in the future and i have the patience even though it might not happen in the next 5 years.