Topic: Hey Theymos, There Should Be a Demotion Button (Read 1345 times)

Anything the OP seems to be spouting is nothing short of attention-seeking and that message cannot be stressed enough therefore to take anything he stated is basically not to be taken seriously. One glance at his trust and feedback will indicate the mentality behind what the OP does.

The OP knew before creating this thread that theymos would not give any attention to it yet it did not stop him from bringing more attention on to himself.

He has not logged in for several days, let us hope this is the last we have seen of the OP.

Low quality poster doesn't deserve to receive negative feedback, that's why @OP ask this feature.

Negative feedback only for an user that high likely scam or obvious scammer, even you create 10K shitpost and never receive any merit, you won't receive negative feedback. Perhaps there's an user left negative feedback, but it's an abuse and other DTs might kick him out from DT.

If theres a feature like this, then the forum will be cleanse. Not in the context how the demotion will be set based by OP. Apparently, more people are worried this could make them demoted right? But it could be rather a discipline approach on how not to break any rules. No one could have the power of demotion for proven bias. I can accept it if once will have a power of this is literally a good in  jugdement.

It is natural that one will look back at their early stages in life and discover how good they have grown and smile. It is not normal to look back and remember that your good days were in the past. I mean 2018 some was a legendary and 2024 they become snr member, it is not natural.
Some users buy accounts, so don't get confused when such things happen. Everyone have their styles, some people like creating a confusion and misunderstanding atmosphere, such that they will use the opportunity to troll and complete their posts.

Do not take it personally because some members were airdropped free merit before the merit system was introduced, which made them achieve legendary rank. That is what you get when you are among the early birds, and you could have benefited from it if you created your account in that year or before that year. Don't expect to have the same merit as them because they have stayed in this forum for many years before you even created an account here. Some of them helped keep this forum up and running, which made you find it interesting to learn about bitcoin.

I don't really know why op would even bring this kind of suggestions to the forum where some persons are complaining of not getting enough merits and calling for the need for more merits to good posting habits. I still don't know how demeriting someone that have gotten merits would look like which sounds very odd to me. I think we need to be wise and do things in the way the ought to be not bringing suggestions that do not worth it or look absurd. No matter the reason, we don't need to think of undoing something that has already been normal.

I know this feature is never going to happen but if it does, it might be the end of BitcoinTalk and the signature campaign era and if it's not implemented properly. Imagine if someone with power were to demote others; this could easily be abused. I've never seen a forum with a ranking feature where members can get demoted. This isn't like the military or anything similar; implementing such a feature or action would be challenging.

The negative trust system solves the puzzle already. With a negative trust from a DT member the user is already halfway out of any campaign they are currently participating in or has little or no chance of been considered in any signature campaign at all.

 I was rather thinking a badge for the most earned merit for every week or month will have been increased post quality. How do mean? Look at it from this angle if there are is a badge given to users who earned more merit during a particular week or month and an algorithm written to verify this user Actually deserves the merit post quality will increase and campaign managers won't find it difficult recruiting participants and low quality posters will have no choice but to work on the qualifications of their posts.

I get your point and the idea your postulating but, with the fact that, posts are what actually gets these merits and the ranks just comes as what is been conferred on a user based on their merit and activity accumulations, it feels odd that there should be a demerit system. It’s you indirectly saying, merits should be taken off a given post because, you’re not actually taking merits from the user, the user was never merited but, the user’s posts was.
How will you come to terms with that?
Perhaps if there should be any of such demoting system, I would say we already have it few forms.

Like we have in the wall of shame thread,
We also have DT members to note a few trash posters with tags,
Some campaign managers have got a blacklist for users that are suspected to fall in this category,
We also have the ignore button to keep them off sight.

Again, your rank doesn’t mean you know so much. Ideas are limited based on exposure and what niche you frequent. Not sure we need a demote system, it wouldn’t do any good.

If the demotion button where to be approved I would do more chaos than good in the forum cause people would use It for more personal issues like retaliating for abuse or negative comments and it would really affect the balance of the forum and make it more like a mere social media or Reddit community.

The merit system is doing enough good now and I understand and know that at times getting merit can be quite an issue especially when there are so much active users on the forum posting everyday and with not enough merit sources to balance it out. I think the merit system as you said has done a good job promoting positive attitudes in the forum and has made many newbies step up there games and learn more since the merit now serves as ameans of recognition in the forum.


If a downvote or demerit system where to be introduced it would cause a lot of drama between users and simple arguments or negative comments could turn into a demerit fight and sure you would see that some users here have so many friends, the merit system might not be the best right now and not all users are benefiting from it, but it has done its job by making everyone more serious especially those that want to participate in signature campaign and earn money, they all have to step up their games on the forum.


The trust system has been abused so many times on this forum and I think that is enough, IMO I don't think there shoudl be any addition to the merit system right now cause its doing a perfect job getting everyone to make good post, and I think that was the reason for introducing it in the first place, not a way to show beef or have forum fight or make a user feel less of himself by actually demeriting his post and I think this would have a very negative side effect on the forum.

I was treated that way; every other new-era newbies must have been a little bit assumed to have no directive at all, and probably no motive... I got upset but after sometime in here, I began to realize the reasons why it happened.

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bottom-line is that you gotta prove them wrong; There was this keen enthusiasm that users had before the merit system was introduced -- I wasn't here before then buh I've read fragment of posts and it's way different from what's happening today...
Well, the merit system isn't perfect but it has served alot of us from manually reporting way too many shit post... I meannn -- they don't even wanna post too much cus ain't nobody be meriting them lame post.

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

And it is very possible for them to post in places where posts cannot be deleted or reported, such as in games and rounds or in ANN thread. I've noticed cases like this in the past where many posters had this habit of increasing their ranking before the merit system was introduced. In fact, it's not uncommon to find many newbie posting on off-topic board instead of posting in places that help them develop their skills and knowledge.

So yes, that is the impression I would have had about newbies had the merit system not been introduced. Of course, not all newbie are the same, it's just that many newbie have habits like that in many cases of discovery.

On that point, I'd say "who cares?" because bitcoin is a different thing than a forum discussing bitcoin--even if it's the forum where everything got started.  Plus I would mention that Bitcoin Discussion is one of the worst sections here in terms of readability, and I don't think it's ever been because of rampant shitposting by high-ranking members.  In any case, Blackrock has diddly-zip to do with what Legendary members are posting here. 

And the impression newcomers get?  Most new members are only here to earn money, shitpost like crazy, and would rank up as fast as they could if the merit system didn't act as a gigantic barrier.

Oh, but it's much better than it used to be prior to the merit system, when members could create any number of accounts and rank them up simply by posting regularly for a long enough period of time.  I've got a problem with giving demerit powers to any members here, no matter how trusted they seem or how long they've been here.  The merit system isn't perfect, true, but I'd hate to see all of the potential abuse of demerits become real once one of those trusted members starts a feud with someone else....or just imagine whatever scenario you like.  DT members have turned out to be scammers, liars, you name it.  I'd rather have something closer to a democracy (or a meritocracy) than what sounds like an oligarchy.

People are obsessed with adding negativity to this site. The last thing the people who have destroyed the trust network’s legitimacy need is a new way to start harassing people on these forums. Take note of the folks that are for this idea and stay far away from them. That’s the best way to improve your forum experience.

I'm only just now seeing that I am being accused of being an alt of the OP.

...Really? So because I've supported an unpopular opinion, it makes me the same person as the one who shared the unpopular opinion first?

I suggest that you re-evaluate what you have said thoroughly. I'm really keeping my lid on after seeing these accusations so late.

...and I wonder why I find it personally so hard to come here and post nowadays. I really enjoyed this place when I became active again however the more I see posts like yours, filled with a baseless, bold and offensive accusation just because I supported an unpopular opinion, and much much worse posts that are on a consistent basis, I understand why I find it so hard to be here.

Yet again, another topic to emphasize the need for demotion... Don't be a pussy!! I'm gonna be real with you; you got a handful of merits and we all know how much You're pressing on to achieve them ranks  -- so is this supposed to be a kind of a weird way to keep tracks on other cus you can't grow in here? Is that anyone's fault? I meannn,  you should allow allow the lions roar if they want to..
DUDE, you're putting this up outta extreme frustration and it's obvious that you got nothing to lose should this system gets implemented.
Ps; it's either you're just being jealous and pained - excluding every fact that you claim to be the positive sides - or you're just another troll.

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But why not? Afterall you're LoyceV, aren't you? bahahaha!!!

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we've gotten to an era where cheaters would boldly suggest a way to retaliate a scambuster for getting caught, doing his odd jobs..This idea was conceived as a result of not being able to evade the GREAT, red paint.

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

To some degree it does get tiresome when reading about modifications members would like to see in the forum. When posting about the changes they would like to see implemented, in some cases members are merely attention seeking.

For me, this so-called demotion button modification is nothing more than another in a long line of requests that most probably will be (and rightly) ignored.

This topic https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63721961 started by BenCodie through which I found this topic. I already wrote my opinion on the other topic by BenCodie.


That is how It should be done or let just the trust system remain to still be used to tag members who are spamming and shit posting.

I share your view because most of the so-called high-ranked individuals are not just worth it, but we should also be cautious with the measures proposed. I replied to a thread yesterday relating to this demotion of a thing and I do not want to believe that it's a coordinated attempt by you guys. Regardless, I am neutral about this but would appreciate it if more vigilance is observed by members of the forum and stricter measures are taken by moderators and campaign managers. Honestly, it could be so annoying reading what some users are writing and seeing the shabby manner in which they write it as well. Guess what, these guys are in campaigns, so the campaign managers also have a lot to do in this regard. Fine, it's all about traffic for them, but thinking beyond that and specifically thinking of the sanity of the forum would go a long way in helping us all.

However, I will never support the demotion you suggested, and based on what I heard from a guy days back, the altcoin forum must have been conceiving this idea of late. Bitcointalk will not be a copycat, we are original. Aside from that, it is just too wicked and some people would use the advantage for evil purposes. It is the merit system we say is not perfect, not to talk of the DT system where tagging has been a punishing and biased tool in the hands of many wildering it. When I read and follow the reasons why some users were tagged, I get angry because it was never worth it. That's human nature for you, so don't let me get deeper into that. Enough measures have been provided already in the forum, and we can work around it. Let people continue to report those users to either their campaign managers or moderators of the sections, or both of them. It is the two that should do the needful and give reasons so that these useless posters can change their ways.

I suggest a temporary ban as well. It could be 2 weeks, 1 month, 3 months, 6 months and so on, depending on the offence and the time such users have been initially warned.

Sure, buddy... Sounds like a great story!  It explains the cheating with alt accounts on those bounty campaigns for a lousy ten bucks here and there.

Let's make it more fun: 2 received deMerit gives you 1 sdeMerit (sendable deMerit)


No, I'm not serious. Let's not do this

Can you imagine the complains to demerit sources? 

I wouldn't want to be the black green sheep if I had airdropped merits. It's confusing and doesn't provide any important insights anyways. If you want to check if a user has airdropped merits, you can just check bpip. If that's not enough, then we can perhaps introduce a "merit airdropped" field in profile page.

The entire issue is a non-issue. Nobody has ever had a problem with distinguishing airdropped merit users, and even they have had, it is a harmless statistic anyway.

What do you mean by "your kind"? Lucius has more than enough Merit to stand after removing all airdropped Merits.

It brings me to another thought though: what if all users without airdropped Merit get a different username color? Let's say green instead of blue. That makes it a lot easier to differentiate between airdropped and earned Merit. If this gets implemented, users with airdropped Merit should get the option to remove those and turn green.

You are just confirming that what I wrote is very likely true, and that you are using your alt accounts to try to influence the opinion of others to advocate a new merit system in which people like you with xx alt accounts would take away merits from everyone who got them honestly.

If you have knowledge that I or anyone else has abused the merit system in any way, be a man and open a topic in which you will present your evidence. As for signature campaigns, I have been on the forum for almost 10 years, and those who know me a little better know that I have been in such campaigns for more than 3 years without spending a single satoshi.

Unlike worthless parasites like you who abuse the forum with who knows how many alt accounts, I only have one and I'm not here just to earn something - I have enough money to live a comfortable life.

You skipped past the question, maybe you will answer it this time. Look at the following account:

~OddJobsForBitcoin
~Newchanka
~Michael63
~Cyberczar

What are your opinions regarding what the correct form of action should be for the following accounts (including your OP account) if a demotion or similar button were to be implemented. If you admit to having any other accounts I will add them to the list therefore do you have any other accounts?

This is pathetic. Your kind is actually one of the reasons why the demotion button should be implemented. So anyone that supports the idea is automatically my alt? Folks like you who live for signature campaigns think the world revolves around posting rubbish without thinking them through. The more you try to sount smart makes you come across as bland. And low-witted individuals like you see it as worthy of merit? I sure admit having perhaps a dozen accounts because the first time I encountered BTT, it was a Google ad showing someone selling Legendary accounts so I thought it's a place to do such. The fact remains that I attempted to sell just one account before I realized that a better way of making money off the forum is through services. I've since earned close to or more than $20,000. And that with only a single participation in signature campaign but mainly through services I render here and on Reddit. Those of you who are idle enough to go through a persons posting history can run through my alts that you know to understand if this is true or false. I have also built businesses that I focus on and so, the many account I set up earlier are of no consequence at the moment. Anyway, your low quality of reasoning as an old member is the reason why such a button is necessary.

As for me, i don't see the rate of these as much as we have it in newbies, most of the high rank individuals are not depreciating in knowledge for any reason, forget it, what you know you have known it, you may only choose not to go up with the current trends but the information's and knowledge there are permanently in you, go and check most of the legendary ranks account, you will discover how some of them have tirelessly worked hard in the past, there's no doubt that sometimes we feels relaxed in the way we contribute before to how we do now, but i think the merit system is also a justification on that, whereby you cant expect someone who is not active or posting quality posts to be receiving merits and incase you sighted on one, you can make an example on reputation board for others to see what's going on on merits abuse.

I won't go into the usefulness and complexity of implementing something like this, but it would be a big mistake to enable such features only for certain members. We already have many complaints and discussions that the DT system is unfair because it seems as if certain users are privileged. That would only bring more unnecessary drama.
The current trust system is not perfect, but it is functional for the most part, although some users continue with their behaviour regardless. Demerit or demotion will certainly not affect such.

Well I don't think anything has changed here because as I know too well if you are looking through merits system then I must say that you are getting it twisted. I think this same suggestions you brought made theymos to implement the merits system and since then till now the forum has been more better and cleaner since it takes time to rank up, ranking up shows how competent you are except for those who already ranked up before the merits system was introduced and if you carefully look on some of the legendary you may ref as they hardly received merits this is to show that they aren't making any progress.

I also want to use this medium to appreciate some reputable members who has been active reporting some post that are not worth it to the mod, and to make the whole thing simple Bitcointalk forum is a place that allows everyone to do whatever they want, and we can't expect everyone to be professional on everything they do or let say that is why here is open for learning and to impact on people who aren't that educated in the crypto space, so, expect low quality and high quality post from anyone and one thing you must know is that people makes quality post to the areas they knows more better than the section they knows Little.

OP, what you're advocating had been suggested before in certain quarters and comments but I'm afraid that isn't looking like what theymos will want to grant, bearing in mind that he brought the merit system to curtail things of similar nature.

That's an apt response to what OP is advocating. It's the same thing when we expect that every elderly people is endowed with wisdom. No, it doesn't work that way. People get wiser by native intelligence bestowed on them or by drawing their knowledge from the experiences of others.

If you don't like it, don't read it. What problems. No one is forcing you to read them. The forum is full of good posts. Anyone can find them if they want.

Nonsense can be found among legendary members even from the new era merit system.

For this to stop being a problem, it’s time for you to lower your expectations that every legendary post is a masterpiece of a writer’s thought. Legendary is not an indicator (mandatory) of having great knowledge and awareness, it is just a rank. Here merits are an indirect (and subjective) sign that separates good posters from bad ones.

Ok, who's going to hit the rank down button? You? This (miracle button) has wide potential for abuse, giving power over forum users.

By the way, the merit system was just introduced to combat (eliminate and reduce) shit posting. Isn't this enough for you?
 
Instead of complaining about other people's bad posts and asking them to take action on them, should you focus on your personal achievements? In the 5 years of your account's existence, you have not risen above the member rank.

What significant contribution have you made to the BTC-community?

Before you start discussing others, maybe you should ask yourself some questions?

This is a controversial proposal that should be considered and discussed before being introduced.

To improve the rating system, a merit system was introduced, which does some of what you describe.

The envy against the high rank members is getting out of hand and this very post is nothing different. The merit system was introduced to curtail some of the things you mentioned in your post and so far it's serving that purpose despite its somehow being abused by some individuals in some ways. In every system, the early and loyal fans always enjoy the benefit of being part of the community from the first beginning and that is exactly what the forum did to her members when the merit system was introduced. Ever since the airdrop merits, some people find it hard to earn merits by themselves and you can easily identify such users by checking their profile and merit stats using BPIP. You'll know those who are genuinely contributing with useful posts and those who benefited from the system.

Now, the questions are these; are spam and shit posts being merit? No! Did Forum provide ignore button that allows you to ignore spammers or troll? Yes! Then what else do you need demotion button for? Perhaps you have a sinister against legendaries by advocating for this call. The forum already has enough features in place including temp ban and perm ban for erring accounts and this very one you are asking is to help people to carryout their grudges on one another to extra level.

Very soon now, I will create a post and ask thymos to issue certificate to all legendaries that will guarantee them work anywhere since everyone is claiming to come up with idea to make Forum a better place.  

I believe that this is just another in a series of alt accounts that the OP has, and it is really funny that he thinks that he is smarter than everyone else when he thinks that such naive tactics can help him in his plan. Now that he has completely exposed himself, I believe that his idea is to take revenge on some members with his alt account farm - but he has two very big problems - the first is to convince the admin to make a change in the merit system, and the second is how to we all pretend we don't know what he's doing.

Cool idea! That gives me the power to turn you back into a Newbie 3-5 times I hope you see where this is going to fail

Just imagine an attack by sDemotion / sDemerit farmers... what this forum would turn into...

The trust system already works very well, I think it would be a waste of time and energy to have to worry about it any more. Those who are here on the forum every day already have the ability to distinguish who the good members are... Nothing else is needed

Demotion/demerit is a good way to encourage groupthink and punish dissenting opinions, so I don't like it. If you feel you read spam posts, hit the report button. No need to demote/demerit.
Plus, with so much drama on the reputation board, this feature most likely will be used for personal vendetta. It will also be more chaotic if the receiver can see who sent him the demote/demerit, and then expect retaliation. The current merit system is much better since it promotes positive attitudes, meanwhile, negative attitudes will be punished via report and moderation.

I think it's a good idea. I would support the idea if it worked somewhat in the way of adding 1 "dmerit" per 3-5 earned merits.

I made a poll about in support. I think this could really change the community for the better.

URL to poll. All credits given.

I mean I understand the intent of OP, and while I don't want myself to get demoted or whatever, the thing is that there's a massive case to be made here. A lot of our Senior and Hero Members are falling short in terms of the quality of their posts, not to mention some of them even resorting to AI generation so they could get away with the effort that they're supposed to put in for their posts. A demotion feature is a good-to-have deterrent to give people a clear reason to keep the quality of their posts on check. But is it really necessary? I don't think so. The banning system of this forum is robust enough on its own to act as its personal deterrent against spamming and other nefarious activities, signature campaigns and campaign managers set clear goals and guidelines to push people to keep on creating posts that are well thought-out and not trashy, and it's got a good track record of banning legendaries who grew to abuse their powers and freedom of expression here as well.

Matter of fact, the demotion button can be abused by butthurt retards who got an ass-clapping opinion rebuttal from higher-ranked members, or maybe even by trolls who just wanted to rile people up and hurt them, as what happened with the Trust System in the past. So yeah, what would've acted as a way to incentivize quality posting, could very well be used by clowns for their own good.

In short you are not happy with the merit system. Many were not when it was first introduced in 2018. Since then there were members who was in its favour and was against it but it has been 6 years now. Time goes fast!

For your account the unhappiness makes completely valid sense. 5 years and you are still a Member. Either you do not give time to the forum or you do not make good enough posts to get attention from others. You need to change yourself first if you want to see a change for your account. It's not the merit system that needs to be changed.

If such an option existed, then an individual user should not have the possibility to demerit someone alone, but a member could be demerited only if there are more than, say, 5 DT users who would use such an opportunity on a certain post. Even if we go so far that someone manages to abuse it, the final decision could be made by admin and global moderators.

A similar system exists on the other forum in the form of something called karma, where it is possible to give positive and negative karma for an individual post, but their admin is very strict about any abuse of that option, so I think that few dare to abuse it.

OP looks like you are concerned that some members here did not worked hard to get merits and were promoted to higher ranks before merit system was introduced. But what benefit they have? If they are not able to get recent merits, they will not be accepted in current or new signature campaigns. This is because recent merits are requirements to get accepted in most of signature campaigns.

I can understand that these feelings might be coming because of jealousy and it is natural. We just need to behave more mature and be accommodating and kind to the world.

This has been proposed in various forms over the years but theymos has always been against them and for good reason. Certain people would just downvote posts by users they don't like regardless of how valid the post is.

As much as I do think the same regarding this suggestion, I believe that this suggestion came from a good intention and I do see what's the point of doing this but one thing that OP has missed is the human nature factor, when this system is implemented as you've already said will cause drama and more than that, this forum is going to be a wasteland filled with people doling out demotes/demerits to others and then retaliation from another, there's a lot that would probably survive the demotion abuse but there's even more that's going to be affected and I don't believe that it will even resolve what OP is trying to say that will solve using this system. Either people will leave this forum or the spamming would get even worse because they've got nothing left to lose.

As much as I agree with you that there are high-ranking members who don't live up to their rank, the demerit or demotion idea isn't it for me. It leaves so many holes to be exploited.
So what happens if along the line we have a disagreement and I feel disrespected and I decide to take the merit I gave to you? Or if I have the power to remote you and I do it because you said or did something that upset me?
We've heard of stories where people allegedly abused the trust system, so why do you think it won't be the same with the demerit or demotion system?

Also, merit is something you earned for a particular post. If along the line that the user does something silly, it doesn't make sense to take away what he has earned. If the offense is serious, he can be red trusted or if it required his account to be banned it would be banned. If it's not an offense that requires any of this but to you, the user spills trash most of the time, you can use the "ignore" feature.

This should also tell you that because an account is high ranking account doesn't mean the person is a god. They're just humans like you who have been on the forum way longer than you. Respect everybody. When you respect everybody, there would be no need to give some people special respect.
IMO, the ranking system is okay as it is.

It's really necessary to compare this forum with Altcoinstalks when you want to propose something? you need to know if Altcoinstalks is a copycat forum of Bitcointalk, not the other way around.

No worries, user who have de-merit isn't only one random user, the de-merited user can create a thread against the sender and if the sender is abusing de-merit, many users will meriting the de-merited user and there's a chance they would de-merit you.

 I read the opening lines of the Op's thread and I was really in sync with what he was saying till he got to the part where he said something along the lines of legendary ranked members posting like 12- year olds. That sounded funny but come to think of it, since the forum operates on anonymity, there's the possibility that an actual 12 year old could be behind the ownership of the account and again, what you might deem as shit post or not passing the message across enough could mean a lot to the next person.
 Secondly according to what a user pointed out, the Op made said suggestion simply because he was aggrieved and not because he wanted the progress of the forum and it's sad that he's acting up because he was called out on his posts.
Making provision for a demotion button in my opinion is totally unnecessary because it doesn't guarantee that those posters who don't make good posts will be flushed out, rather it will be a means for those who are eligible to use it and have beef with others to misuse it.
 @JollyGood was kind enough to bring out your alts, so should this demotion button be activated, don't you think you'd be most affected, Op? No need to drag unnecessary attention to your corner because you may not like the resulting effects when the whole thing is done.

What makes no sense is to presuppose veracity to what the OP says, and what you say is only part of it. He says:


From someone who has been caught breaking the rules, such as having joined campaigns with his alts and says this:


I wouldn't presume much veracity in anything. This thread and the other's responses are full of excuses of a little kid who has been caught red handed and doesn't know how to get out of the situation.

Well, if this is implemented then there would be a problem with it and I think someone will surely take advantage of it and abuse it to demote or demerit if it's about demerit button like they just don't want that forum member to rank up (there are good points to this though it's already a different topic so I won't delve further into that topic). Let's say it is implemented then I could just use it to demote your accounts or demerit your accounts if it is about implementing demerit button. What do you think what will happen to your accounts especially your account having negative trust already. For other forum members who already reached legendary rank and didn't start from newbie with merits required to rank up then it is because they are much earlier to be here in the forum even though they aren't posting high quality posts (not all though because some are even contributed to the forum). Anyway, if that really happen then all your accounts would be newbies right now and with negative trust score.

The merit system is enough to handle all the issues raised and it's handling them. The difficulty in ranking up will enable us not to have incompetent legendaries in the future. If there were others promoted to legendary before the merit system, they should enjoy it. I have read people proposed that all airdropped merits be retrieved, I don't support that, that is part of the forum history and shouldn't be distorted.
If accounts changed hands, it's also part of the system as no system is without a flaw. Besides, I do not think there are still good accounts without tags that are still up for sell these days. So, those few ones will extinct with time.

could be because the OP didn't want to be extremely obvious on what his motives are, I mean the fact that he left negative feedback on decodex after he exposed his alt account shows that he is pissed about what decodex did and this thread is just a continuation of that. but then again, I could be wrong since I am just making an assumption.

Since you created this thread with the intention of attention-seeking and not really because of the question you asked, I would like to ask if you have any opinion regarding what should happen to the following accounts (including your OP account) if any sort of demotion button were ever to be added:

~OddJobsForBitcoin
~Newchanka
~Michael63
~Cyberczar

For obvious reasons it might be difficult for you to take a purely impartial view on the above mentioned accounts but nevertheless your views would be interesting to read.

We have reputation and common sense for that. If an account has 1000 merits and is 7+ years old, then it is clear their merits were airdropped. You can also look on the merits that were earned in the last few months, to get a better picture.

Ranks exist for discouraging shitposting. Not for certifying competence.

I actually liked this idea but I don't think we need it here, for example on ALTT doesn't have a feedback or trust system like we (BTT) have, so what they do is deduct all of the karmas of spammers, just like there is a new case where 5 accounts were linked to single user and most of them were good profiles (means some are ranked) so what admin did is just reduced there karma (merits) to zero but no Trust or feedback (AFAIK). But here if you think someone is doing nothing, just trolling, no contributing, nothing no but sits with high merits then you don't have to demerit them for that because the merits they must have earned are on the posts that one might have found contributing.

But what you can do is give them neutral if that's according to the rules of the trust system. And what ratio do you propose, like 2 merits make 1 smerits so to give demerits (Dmerits) how many merits you should have, or you just be given the ability to demerit anyone, that will create more work for the moderators which I think they don't want, (just think). As merits, spamming is a thing and after this, they have to deal with the demerits of spamming too.

That's a good way to try and stay in the good books of reputable members but I'm not sure if that would work, especially after what Poker Player have posted.  

So we have two discussions coming from OP that backfired on him and exposed him, I could have agreed if it was coming from a different account and not from someone who got exposed, the timing is bad, I also like OP's idea but it seems there's a hidden agenda behind it.

I agree with the OP, but if that button will be used first on him and all his alt accounts that would have exactly 0 merit after that.

Considering that the story is repeated again that those who ask for some strange things (or make unnecessary excuses) actually draw attention to themselves and their shady actions, maybe someone will find some OP alt account that is permanently banned, and then we know what that means for all other accounts.

Happy hunting guys

Well, this explains a lot about why OP is dissatisfied with the current merit system and why he came up with this idea. Usually, people who are against the system are also the ones who are trying to abuse it.  I'm sure he would put his alt account farms to good use if we actually had de-merit or demote buttons.

Blackrock's interests are most likely the opposite of my own interests. That should not be a reason to do anything here.

That doesn't make sense, decodx created his account after the introduction of the Merit system, and earned all his Merit by himself.

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I created LoyceV's deMerit source application in 2018. TL;DR:
OP should read that topic.

This was my stand on the idea of demotion or deranking with emphasis on members that ranked up before the merit system was introduced and it still is today.

A demerit option is extreme and would definitely be abused affecting members all around the board.

This is not school or politics that ranks is earn solely through merits. This is a public forum dedicated for discussion anything about Bitcoin. Being an OG user is enough to become legendary due to the time they spend here in the forum. Not all people can be knowledgeable on Bitcoin because we can contribute in different ways here.

I believe you should look on the merit rather than the rank of you want to find a user that really knows  what they are talking. Demoting just because you didn’t like their opinion is nonsense and will make this forum more controlling.

Although the proposal is strange, adding the de-Merit option to some members was introduced some time ago, and currently only admin can do this.
If you can prove that there is an urgent need for de-Merit, then your request will be accepted, but this feature will be given to certain accounts.
As for it being available to everyone, this means more drama, which already exists.

I'm not for this one. I could almost guarantee that the demerit button would also be used when person A disagrees with person B, regardless if the post is spam/bland or not.

I think the current system where people need to earn merit to rank up is sufficient enough. The older accounts that have high amounts of airdropped merits(and little to no received sMerits) are likely to have a very hard time getting into campaigns anyway.

If you have been paying attention, you will notice that the DT system is already generating so much hates and dividing us as a Bitcoin community instead of uniting. This is because some DT members are being accused of abusing the system and using their powers for their personal vendetta.

Imagine adding a demerit system, that will bring nothing but chaos.  I don't see it helping the forum or contributing in any way.

The forum have rules against spamming and if you notice anyone committing same, kindly use the report button and it will be handled by the admins.


It is up to the campaign managers to decide who is making quality post and who isn't and to remove the later because they have the right and power to do so. Signature campaigns are highly competitive and managers go for those they consider the best to add value to the business they were contracted to promote. I believe anyone still in any campaign meets the expectations of the manager and that should not be your concern.

Too many rules will eventually kill the forum. I think we already have enough rules already so we don't need new and controversial one like you suggested.

Hey theymos, and other members who are unclear about what OddJobsForBitcoin is talking about. He wants to use the demotion button for posts like this in which decodx shows with evidence of blockchain analysis that he has an account farm and sells Bitcointalk accounts.


I am clear that it is not that it seems that way, it is that there is a clear cause-effect relationship between one thing and another.

Although I like the suggestion in general, but it seems @OP opened this topic because he received a negative feedback from high ranked user.

Unfortunately, many people will say it's "sUBjeCtIv3" and we can't do anything if we didn't find their connections with hard evidence.

Even you've report the post, there's no guarantee the post will be deleted especially if the post is long.

What's the relation between post quality with positive and negative feedback? it's incorrect to use positive feedback and negative feedback because of qualify post.

Ignoring them is nothing different to ignoring a problem instead of fixing the problem.

It's not enough, they can still post in other non self moderated thread.

The demotion button, as far as it applies to signature campaigns, already exists in the form of negative trust. Quite frequently, a single red trust from a DT member is enough to keep an account out of any type of campaign. Of course it should be given for being untrustworthy and not just a shitposter. There's neutrals for that, and if a campaign manager cares at all about the quality of their campaign, they will take these into consideration as well.

Anyone who has been around here for a year or longer realizes that Legendary status doesn't necessarily mean jack. Many Legendaries achieved their status before the advent of the merit system, are shitposting trolls, and woefully lag in merits. Many more are purchased accounts.

If OP is personally worried about obtaining more merits for themselves, my suggestion would be to just focus on posting from one account instead of trying to juggle a handful of alts.

There is tons of shitposters with Sr. Member+ rank. They are mostly from a few specific countries, which I won’t name, but some of these local boards hand out merits like candy to all their buddies. It is borderline abusing the merit system. There definitely needs to be some improvements. Demerit isn’t the best idea because members with contrarian views often get a lot of hate for challenging certain narratives. It will just be another way to bully and try to silence those with dissenting views.

Yeah, but the issue is that many new members won't know some of these things and the effect could last a long time.

This is a strange line of thought . I think some of the measures already put in place to curtail these excesses are the "report to moderator" button and the trust system, which includes positive, neutral, and negative ratings. Another measure on an individual level is to write to them directly. However, a demotion or demerit button is not an effective way to deal with it. Instead, you can use the ignore button for those specific users if their comments bother you so much. One other thing you could do is whenever you create a topic, you could self-moderate it by deleting comments that aren't useful or helpful to the conversation, thus keeping it clean and maintaining a meaningful discussion.

i feel the OP did not make his finding very well about this merit. I want to say some of the new acquired legendary come from merit add as a result of member of country group and languages. Many merit has come from other language forum which does make most recent legendary as qualifies as we used to have. Has he find about trust rank that is on everyone's profile; which most people use base on quality of post of the member while they also attach credible evidence to buttress their claim. The forum has a strong punishment for anyone plagiarizing.

OP, when I came to the forum, I read some comments that said, "The quality of a post is not determined by the rank of members here." Some low-ranking members can actually create more educational- quality threads and comments than some high-ranking members. I feel that even if a demerit system is introduced, it may not completely eradicate low-quality posts, so I am of the opinion that campaign managers should properly access the quality of a member post before they accept members into their campaign. Also, let managers do a re-check on the quality of their campaign participants's posts at least once a month. That can also help to propel low-quality posters into putting in more effort to create a quality post and can also reduce spamming. 

De merit button discussion has been done multiple times here and it still leaves us with the same answer it will definitely suck. I understand your frustration on some spam but how do you want the demerit thing to work, to me it will cause more problems than solving it. The whole merit thing is to credit the post that has quality to them, do want another person ti form and demerit that because he disagrees with another persons opinion, that will look like the person that merit such post doesn’t know what quality means.

If you’re worried about people quality dropping on posting just because they Join a signature then it is the work of the campaign manager himself to kick them out of the campaign.

This is the worst suggestion I have ever seen. Demotion button, man are you okay? I think the current merit system of the Bitcointalk is the best one we have and there is no need to create something like that. I guess this thread of your shows your mindset regarding the high rank members of the forum.

Those who have reached Legendary rank have devoted most of their time on this forum and they have made many good posts which helped many people. And, now someone out of no where comes here and wants to have a system where those members may get demoted? It's going to cause even more drama and fights, nothing else.

It can be distressing to new members reading some of the posts from old members who should be knowledgeable but unfortunately bland. The quality of reasoning (and posts)  of many Legendary members is  appalling. This could be due to the fact that they were promoted before the introduction of the merit system or they simply bought a high-ranked account to spew rubbish on the forum.

With the rampancy of signature campaigns, the tendency for participants to type to meet quota (even if they don’t really make sense is high). This is why I think that a demotion (or demerit) button is appropriate. This would mitigate the preponderance of the disappointment in reading posts from some so-ranked Legendary sounding like it’s from a 12-year old.

We even have trolls and spammers who are high-ranked members (Legendary trolls). This means that these chaps have never contributed something meaningful to the community debar having been around for ages. This ought not be so. What impression does it make on new members, especially now that Bitcoin is massively being advertised by big names like Blackrock?

You can implement this by adding a demerit button. If a member can rank up through a thousand merits, they should be demoted through a hundred De-merits. This could be open to members or assigned to moderators. You may also bestow demotion powers to intelligent reputable members like LoyceV, Yahoo62278, Notatether, Moccaccino, Logfiles, Suchmoon and others.

A ranking system should reflect competence, integrity and credibility of those it is bestowed upon. Unfortunately, the BTT system should be stremlined and made balanced through the implementation of necessary trade-offs. A system that promotes but never demotes never gets the best of its men. Let’s make this happen.