High transaction fees affects those who DCA - page 7.

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Quote from: irhact on November 30, 2023, 11:46:24 AM

Quote from: Agbamoni on November 25, 2023, 09:28:16 PM

I discussed this issue with my friend, and he suggested I use an exchange that utilizes the Lightning Network. According to him, this would help me get off with no fees any day. While I'm considering this alternative, another option is to wait for a month or two, then use the amount we kept for weekly DCA, hold it for a month or two, and lump sum. This way, i would incur just a one time fee. What are your thoughts on this? I feel like I may use the money kept for DCA for other expenses.

High transaction fees are going to affect everything and Investing weekly is just one of them. I'll go with the advice of keeping your money and saving it upto a month before buying and your DCA will change from weekly to monthly. When the transaction is back to normal that you can use cents to send your transaction that's when you can return to weekly investing. Change is constant and adjusting to find a better way to works for you in life is very important.

This is more like it and I see huge sense in your position on this. Even though the transaction fees has significantly reduced from what it was few weeks ago, it is still too high for someone performing weekly DCA especially when the capital is not that big. At the peak of the high fees, there were transactions whose fees were higher than the amount being transacted like those doing $10 - $20 weekly DCA. In a situation like this, it becomes extremely difficult continuing with the DCA method. Even the monthly DCA under this arrangement is not sustainable because it does not feel logical spending $33 to withdraw $80 into a private wallet. Well, it is good the fees has reduced of recent and soon it will become normal again.

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Quote from: Agbamoni on November 25, 2023, 09:28:16 PM

I discussed this issue with my friend, and he suggested I use an exchange that utilizes the Lightning Network. According to him, this would help me get off with no fees any day. While I'm considering this alternative, another option is to wait for a month or two, then use the amount we kept for weekly DCA, hold it for a month or two, and lump sum. This way, i would incur just a one time fee. What are your thoughts on this? I feel like I may use the money kept for DCA for other expenses.

High transaction fees are going to affect everything and Investing weekly is just one of them. I'll go with the advice of keeping your money and saving it upto a month before buying and your DCA will change from weekly to monthly. When the transaction is back to normal that you can use cents to send your transaction that's when you can return to weekly investing. Change is constant and adjusting to find a better way to works for you in life is very important.

Only those individuals that have the money to spare that can be putting up high fees for miners to mine their transaction first but if you don't have the money then wait for the network to be less congested and continue with your transactions. Also you can use accelerators when your transaction are delaying, we have free accelerators that'll help you to accelerate your transaction since you don't have the extra money to pay high fees.

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Quote from: philipma1957 on November 29, 2023, 08:37:18 PM

And if you are U.S.A. based good luck finding an exchange to do it with.

After Binance and Kraken got into trouble with the SEC, there are no more exchanges supporting Lightning for the US region.
Bitstamp, though still operating, does not accept deposit and withdrawals using LN.

There is only Coinbase, but the implementation of the LN network is still in the planning stage.
The U.S. is getting more and more rules, but are you free to do anything there that doesn't have to do with crypto?

https://github.com/theDavidCoen/LightningExchanges

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Quote from: Yamane_Keto on November 30, 2023, 12:35:11 AM

High fees are not a permanent issue and the price of Bitcoin did not change much during this month. Instead of buying Bitcoin daily or weekly, accumulate Bitcoin and buy once a month or every two months. Thus, even if you pay $20 to confirm the transaction, it will be much less than the amount you use to buy Bitcoin in particular. With prices like these.
Leaving your money on the platform is not considered a good option, as there is a possibility that the platform will go bankrupt or your money will be confiscated, so buy in one payment only.

This isnt the first time but for those who are just new and recently dived in into this market then they would normally be freaking out on whats fucking going on with the fees.They are expecting less but it turns out that it is almost that reaching up $20 but well this is much still better if we do compared into those erc20 or simply with ETH transactions on which everyday is incredibly high. Grin

If we do tend to check out https://mempool.space/ as of this moment then the fees is gradually lessening to 2 bucks which it isnt that bad compared on past days.
Its not always that be like this, there are really moments specially on that brc20 spam which i do heard of.

Its not something new and if you are not that willing to spend up to those high fees then let it subside and wait whether a few weeks i guess or few days but usually
it do really takes some weeks before everything would goes back to normal.

Yamane_Keto

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High fees are not a permanent issue and the price of Bitcoin did not change much during this month. Instead of buying Bitcoin daily or weekly, accumulate Bitcoin and buy once a month or every two months. Thus, even if you pay $20 to confirm the transaction, it will be much less than the amount you use to buy Bitcoin in particular. With prices like these.
Leaving your money on the platform is not considered a good option, as there is a possibility that the platform will go bankrupt or your money will be confiscated, so buy in one payment only.

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Quote from: taufik123 on November 29, 2023, 08:33:55 PM

Quote from: coolcoinz on November 29, 2023, 03:04:21 PM

It was in fact designed for small transactions like the ones that people who DCA send. It's either that or you save up/go lump sum.

I keep saying that DCA is only if you have no other way of buying bitcoin, so you get a monthly income/allowance/pension and you have to pay your bills which leaves you with a certain small amount of money to buy food, clothes, invest, therefore buying $50 worth of bitcoin every month seems like the way to go.
-snip-

If the maximum monthly purchase is only $50, I am reminded of the Lightning Bitcoin ATM project that can make Bitcoin purchases with Fiat or traditional currencies directly using many commonly used payment methods.

https://btcln.app/atm/, this Lightning ATM is the first Lightning ATM in Indonesia that can support Lightning Network by converting rupiah to Satoshi very easily and quickly.
Minimum purchase IDR 1500 ($0.1) and maximum purchase IDR 25,000( $1.7)
Only 10x transaction per day is allowed.

I've also created the thread here
[SHARE] Lightning ATM ( Mainan ) - Beli BITCOIN Eceran Mulai dari Rp.1500

And if you are U.S.A. based good luck finding an exchange to do it with.

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Quote from: coolcoinz on November 29, 2023, 03:04:21 PM

It was in fact designed for small transactions like the ones that people who DCA send. It's either that or you save up/go lump sum.

I keep saying that DCA is only if you have no other way of buying bitcoin, so you get a monthly income/allowance/pension and you have to pay your bills which leaves you with a certain small amount of money to buy food, clothes, invest, therefore buying $50 worth of bitcoin every month seems like the way to go.
-snip-

If the maximum monthly purchase is only $50, I am reminded of the Lightning Bitcoin ATM project that can make Bitcoin purchases with Fiat or traditional currencies directly using many commonly used payment methods.

https://btcln.app/atm/, this Lightning ATM is the first Lightning ATM in Indonesia that can support Lightning Network by converting rupiah to Satoshi very easily and quickly.
Minimum purchase IDR 1500 ($0.1) and maximum purchase IDR 25,000( $1.7)
Only 10x transaction per day is allowed.

I've also created the thread here
[SHARE] Lightning ATM ( Mainan ) - Beli BITCOIN Eceran Mulai dari Rp.1500

Captain Corporate

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Why do people not use exchanges that deal with banks? Local exchanges are a thing. I mean I use something called "paribu" in my nation and that means I send from my bank account to paribu and they do not charge anything. In the end, if you are not happy with that, just make it once a month, surely the price will go up, but calculate how much do you think you will lose from transactions and how much you would earn from the price increase. If buying every week is more profitable then do that, if that is not profitable and you lose then don't do that. Its as simple as that and would definitely give you a great return without a doubt, it should be an important aspect of your investment.

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Quote from: yhiaali3 on November 28, 2023, 07:27:18 AM

Unlike you, the rise in Bitcoin network fees has had a positive impact on my DCA strategy, as I intended to withdraw some Bitcoin from my wallet to buy some household items but changed my mind as a result of the rise in fees.

The solutions available to you currently are either to use the Bitcoin lightning network or try to send one payment every month instead of sending it every week, or wait until the problem of high fees may be solved.

Personally, I prefer the second solution, i.e. sending one payment per month instead of sending it every week.

The lightning network is indeed a good option but still a small percentage of DCAs save on the lightning network, we know that this network still has few users or needs further development but I think most people still use the regular network to store their BTC.

Currently waiting for costs to go down will take a long time, in fact it has been more than a month since the costs have been above $2 and the average cost is $2 to $4. Profit at this time, so if the situation continues like this then do this option because it will save you money rather than doing it every week. it costs more money if you do that.

I think many people will take this option, including me, who will do it every 1 month or even more to save the BTC that is issued from withdrawals.

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One of the things that Satoshi Nakamoto makes us understand in the Bitcoin whitepaper is that, ~bitcoin should be allowed to develop naturally,' so for such as in the current situation in the Bitcoin network, there must be a need to adapt to another sector of the networks that serve as alternatives as long as it will enhance your independent and privacy and being part of the bitcoin primary objectives.

I have set up a Bitcoin lightning network and have made a series of transactions on the network with almost zero fees, so it's an aspect that I may want everyone to take a look at.

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Quote from: taufik123 on November 29, 2023, 01:47:06 PM

The use of Bitcoin's lightning network is actually the best solution, but due to the lack of development, many doubts it.

It was in fact designed for small transactions like the ones that people who DCA send. It's either that or you save up/go lump sum.

I keep saying that DCA is only if you have no other way of buying bitcoin, so you get a monthly income/allowance/pension and you have to pay your bills which leaves you with a certain small amount of money to buy food, clothes, invest, therefore buying $50 worth of bitcoin every month seems like the way to go.
If you have savings, don't DCA, especially in the bull market when every month of waiting means you get less bitcoin for the same money. Ultimately you want the most bitcoin for the least fiat possible.

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Quote from: Agbamoni on November 25, 2023, 09:28:16 PM

The current Bitcoin fees wouldn't have mattered to me because I am not selling, but the fees do matter because I DCA, and I don't want to leave my coins in the centralized exchange. This month, I have spent roughly $5 to $10 in transaction fees when I DCA every week. It may seem small, but in my country, it's enough to cover my feeding expenses for a month cumulatively.

That's a problem for some people who take DCA and the high cost approach will force them to hold bitcoin on exchanges, even though we know that holding bitcoin on exchanges is not a viable option because we never know how the exchange will turn out. The amount of $5 to $10 for some countries is slightly larger because it can cover food costs for several weeks.

Quote from: Agbamoni on November 25, 2023, 09:28:16 PM

I discussed this issue with my friend, and he suggested I use an exchange that utilizes the Lightning Network. According to him, this would help me get off with no fees any day. While I'm considering this alternative, another option is to wait for a month or two, then use the amount we kept for weekly DCA, hold it for a month or two, and lump sum. This way, i would incur just a one time fee. What are your thoughts on this? I feel like I may use the money kept for DCA for other expenses.

Utilizing the Lightning Network might be an alternative, but I often use another method where every month I just withdraw assets from the exchange to the wallet I use. At a minimum, it can reduce transaction costs carried out routinely using the DCA method because we will try to accumulate costs once in the delivery period. Both are wise choices and it depends on how someone wants to choose and for me personally I might still choose the second method of the two methods you explained.

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Quote from: yhiaali3 on November 28, 2023, 07:27:18 AM

-snip-
The solutions available to you currently are either to use the Bitcoin lightning network or try to send one payment every month instead of sending it every week, or wait until the problem of high fees may be solved.

Personally, I prefer the second solution, i.e. sending one payment per month instead of sending it every week.

The use of Bitcoin's lightning network is actually the best solution, but due to the lack of development, many doubts it.
But now exchanges and some wallets support lightning networks as a way to make withdrawals and deposits with fees that are very cheap compared to regular networks.

This will support for small transactions such as doing DCA on a weekly or monthly basis.
But if you choose to make payments every month, it will be a fairly economical option.

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Unlike you, the rise in Bitcoin network fees has had a positive impact on my DCA strategy, as I intended to withdraw some Bitcoin from my wallet to buy some household items but changed my mind as a result of the rise in fees.

The solutions available to you currently are either to use the Bitcoin lightning network or try to send one payment every month instead of sending it every week, or wait until the problem of high fees may be solved.

Personally, I prefer the second solution, i.e. sending one payment per month instead of sending it every week.

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Quote from: justdimin on November 28, 2023, 05:18:11 AM

Quote from: Wexnident on November 27, 2023, 07:09:50 AM

I'd say it depends on how much you DCA? I mean it might break the pattern but really, investing idk $40-$50 per week with $10 fees does not seem worth it since that's 1/4 of your total investment already. Maybe set a maximum in terms of fees so that you can guarantee it, and if it goes past that, just hold the money or something temporarily. If you can't hold it then actively look out for hours where the Mempool isn't as congested to get cheaper fees.

LN sounds good if you want to though. There are a lot of guides out there and there are also ones in the forum made by others as well. If you really don't want to break the pattern then I'd suggest go for that, but if you can handle breaking the pattern then it's up to your preference by then.

I would say when we are talking about putting in fiat, that doesn't really include that much money to do. I mean from my bank to bank account of binance to put up money, that is nothing, it's free and I do not spend any money at all. That means I have money at binance for free, now that I do that, I turn that fiat into bitcoin, and that only costs the trading fee as well.

This means, I can do DCA with absolutely no fee at all, just a small trading fee, which is less than a dollar. So, I can put up 50 bucks a week and that would be fine. I would still say go for it if you want to, sure transactions cost a lot but in this situation you are not having any crypto transaction. If you do have to, then suddenly that becomes a trouble and you would be right, you shouldn't have crypto transactions at that level per week, it would hurt your finances, but if you do what I said then you do not pay anything and you can do that. I know, because I have done that for years.

But OP and everyone don't want to leave bitcoin on centralized exchanges like Binance. They will still buy bitcoin on centralized exchanges and there won't be significant fees like you said but the issue of withdrawal fees to non-custodial wallets is a concern these days. I have to agree with the OP that bitcoin transaction fees are becoming a headache for us retail investors. I want to sell my bitcoins but the transaction fees are too high and it's causing me a lot of trouble. If I wait longer, transaction fees may decrease but at the same time, bitcoin price may also decrease.

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Quote from: Wexnident on November 27, 2023, 07:09:50 AM

I'd say it depends on how much you DCA? I mean it might break the pattern but really, investing idk $40-$50 per week with $10 fees does not seem worth it since that's 1/4 of your total investment already. Maybe set a maximum in terms of fees so that you can guarantee it, and if it goes past that, just hold the money or something temporarily. If you can't hold it then actively look out for hours where the Mempool isn't as congested to get cheaper fees.

LN sounds good if you want to though. There are a lot of guides out there and there are also ones in the forum made by others as well. If you really don't want to break the pattern then I'd suggest go for that, but if you can handle breaking the pattern then it's up to your preference by then.

I would say when we are talking about putting in fiat, that doesn't really include that much money to do. I mean from my bank to bank account of binance to put up money, that is nothing, it's free and I do not spend any money at all. That means I have money at binance for free, now that I do that, I turn that fiat into bitcoin, and that only costs the trading fee as well.

This means, I can do DCA with absolutely no fee at all, just a small trading fee, which is less than a dollar. So, I can put up 50 bucks a week and that would be fine. I would still say go for it if you want to, sure transactions cost a lot but in this situation you are not having any crypto transaction. If you do have to, then suddenly that becomes a trouble and you would be right, you shouldn't have crypto transactions at that level per week, it would hurt your finances, but if you do what I said then you do not pay anything and you can do that. I know, because I have done that for years.

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In fact, you can leave your coins on an exchange like Binance for a while until the transaction costs decrease. It's still safe as long as you choose a trusted exchange to store your Bitcoin there.

If you are still in doubt, you can look for an exchange in your country. If there is a problem later, you can contact them to ask for help so they can solve the problem.

Another solution is that you can temporarily save the $ 10 in your bank while waiting for everything to return to normal, as you said.

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Quote from: Strongkored on November 28, 2023, 12:58:09 AM

Quote from: Agbamoni on November 25, 2023, 09:28:16 PM

What are your thoughts on this? I feel like I may use the money kept for DCA for other expenses.

Storing our coins on an exchange is not the right thing but in my opinion that is if it is done for the long term, for example, more than six months or more, but if it is only 1 to 3 weeks it will not be a problem when you are using a trusted exchange and currently it seems that's the best way to avoid spending more money on transaction fees.
But I'm quite curious whether CEX is currently increasing withdrawal fees due to current network conditions. because the CEX that I use doesn't do that and before the current network the withdrawal fees on the CEX were already high so it wasn't friendly for those who did DCA and withdrew every time they finished making a purchase.

It is true it is not the best option to leave your coins at an exchange for such a long time, but for the ones that are buying small amounts of bitcoin they may not have any other choice, as the only other option would be to buy an altcoin with a cheap transaction fee and then get the altcoin out of the exchange, and once the fees went down make a deposit, convert to bitcoin and then make a withdrawal, however with so many transactions and conversions it is not clear if any money could be saved with so many moves, plus you are exposing yourself by using an altcoin this way as it could drop in price and make you lose more money than what you could have lost in fees.

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Only other thing you can do really is buy WBTC and just used some L2 like Arbitrum. Fees are extremely cheap and many exchanges support WBTC.

However keep in mind WBTC is somewhat centralized because if the holder company turns out to be a fraud then you will lose your BTC. But if you do it once in a while you should be fine.

Buy WBTC weekly, withdraw and after 10 weeks send it back to exchange and convert to BTC and then withdraw that BTC to the actual bitcoin blockchain.

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Quote from: Agbamoni on November 25, 2023, 09:28:16 PM

What are your thoughts on this? I feel like I may use the money kept for DCA for other expenses.

Storing our coins on an exchange is not the right thing but in my opinion that is if it is done for the long term, for example, more than six months or more, but if it is only 1 to 3 weeks it will not be a problem when you are using a trusted exchange and currently it seems that's the best way to avoid spending more money on transaction fees.
But I'm quite curious whether CEX is currently increasing withdrawal fees due to current network conditions. because the CEX that I use doesn't do that and before the current network the withdrawal fees on the CEX were already high so it wasn't friendly for those who did DCA and withdrew every time they finished making a purchase.

Topic: High transaction fees affects those who DCA - page 7. (Read 1805 times)