HODL, HOARD your cypto GOLD! All Hail the Hoarders!

Kazimir

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Quote from: rax on February 14, 2015, 10:22:19 AM

Hoarding explained in 3 easy rules
1. Do exchange your USD for BTC.
2. Do NOT exchange your BTC for USD.
3. Only spend your BTC on sellers you believe follow rule 2.

Disagree with number 3. It's better to just ALWAYS pay with Bitcoin wherever you can, as it helps stimulating the Bitcoin economy and usability. Even if the merchant happens to convert it to EUR or USD. However, whenever you spend bitcoins, immediately buy back the same amount of bitcoins through an exchange. This way, you: 1. effectively keep your stash of bitcoins, and 2. you compensate the market supply/demand in case the merchant happens to convert his bitcoins to fiat.

Remember, Bitcoin is still in its infancy. We can't expect mainstream merchants to keep bitcoins, since they typically cannot pay their expenses and staff in bitcoins either. By ignoring merchants who don't keep bitcoins, you're sticking your head in the sand. By paying them in bitcoins, even if they convert it to EUR or USD, we help them getting into the migration phase. Once they notice how they can spend bitcoins everywhere, their urge to convert to fiat will diminish, and we'll grow towards a 100% Bitcoin situation.

It has been mentioned before: hoarding / hodling and spending bitcoins go hand in hand very well.

Q7

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The only way I see that brings value to bitcoin is you exchange the coin within the community itself that is if your spend your bitcoin to pay to another person that will pass on to another without that going back to exchangers to leave it in the open market for sale to fiat. That will certainly bring up the price due to scarcity because there will be less supply in the open market

rax

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Quote from: Bitcoinexp on February 14, 2015, 07:36:17 AM

Holding/hoarding would then antagonize bitoin's idea as an actual currency. I agree with some of the posts here: if you only hold bitcoin and spend USD in the mean time, you're only helping to stimulate fiat currency; if you actually use bitcoin and apply it's use in everyday life, you're actually helping to stimulate bitcoin. Sure, holding could cause scarcity to bring bitcoin's price to the moon, but then it wouldn't hold much value as a trading commodity or currency.

How so? You can contribute to hoarding and still buy goods and services with bitcoin. As long as the seller acknowledges bitcoin as good a currency as any other and doesn't rush to exchange it at market price for a fiat currency then the coins are effectively hoarded (by him), even though you just spent them.
In other words, hoarding does not mean "I'm gonna buy as many bitcoins as I can, move them to cold storage and never touch them again" but rather "Why on Earth would I ever want to exchange my bitcoins for shitty USD?".

Regarding currency "stimulation" I don't believe it is that important in this case. It certainly is in the case of fiat money (to the governments, that is) because the higher the money velocity the more they collect through coercive taxation. No such thing applies to bitcoin.

Hoarding explained in 3 easy rules
1. Do exchange your USD for BTC.
2. Do NOT exchange your BTC for USD.
3. Only spend your BTC on sellers you believe follow rule 2.

Further reading: http://themisescircle.org/blog/2013/02/19/end-the-fed-hoard-bitcoins/

Kazimir

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Quote from: Bitcoinexp on February 14, 2015, 08:08:09 AM

I think you mean 1000USD/bit, 1 bit = 0.001 last time i checked.

1 bit = 0.001 milliBitcoin = 0.000001 BTC or one millionth of a bitcoin.

Bitcoinexp

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Quote from: anonyymi on February 14, 2015, 07:46:23 AM

i think is important for bitcoin that as many as possible buys more bitcoins.
also spend less bitcoins than you purchase. try to cumulate your wallet.

i think the price can go up to 1usd/bit (=1.000.000usd/btc).

I think you mean 1000USD/bit, 1 bit = 0.001 last time i checked.

anonyymi

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i think is important for bitcoin that as many as possible buys more bitcoins.
also spend less bitcoins than you purchase. try to cumulate your wallet.

i think the price can go up to 1usd/bit (=1.000.000usd/btc).

Bitcoinexp

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Holding/hoarding would then antagonize bitoin's idea as an actual currency. I agree with some of the posts here: if you only hold bitcoin and spend USD in the mean time, you're only helping to stimulate fiat currency; if you actually use bitcoin and apply it's use in everyday life, you're actually helping to stimulate bitcoin. Sure, holding could cause scarcity to bring bitcoin's price to the moon, but then it wouldn't hold much value as a trading commodity or currency.

acquafredda

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Quote from: Jace on February 13, 2015, 06:27:21 PM

Quote from: drbrock on February 12, 2015, 12:10:34 PM

WHAT?

This makes no sense to me. Assume BTC was 10.000 and is now 300? Huh

what?

If you buy an Xbox for 300 USD then you are down 300
If you buy an Xbox with 1BTC (worth 300 USD) and then buy 1BTC (at 300USD) then you are down 600.

FUCKING IDIOT

Let me spell it out for you.

Suppose you want to buy an Xbox which is 300 USD.

You have 300 USD in your bank account, and 5 BTC in your wallet.

Scenario 1: you pay the Xbox with dollars. You now have: 1 Xbox, 0 USD, and 5 BTC.

Scenario 2: you pay the Xbox with bitcoins, and you buy back the same amount of bitcoins (i.e. 300 USD worth) on an exchange right away. You now have: 1 Xbox, 0 USD, and 5 BTC.

See the difference in the end result? Now, which scenario do you think will help Bitcoin grow more.

Note that in either scenario, it doesn't matter how cheap or expensive you originally bought the bitcoins. It ONLY matters that you are now spending 300 USD worth of bitcoins (at today's rate) and buying back the exact same amount of bitcoins right away (which will cost you 300 USD, give or take 0.1% exchange fees maybe).

Interesting...
thanks!
Cool

turvarya

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Quote from: Jace on February 13, 2015, 06:27:21 PM

Quote from: drbrock on February 12, 2015, 12:10:34 PM

WHAT?

This makes no sense to me. Assume BTC was 10.000 and is now 300? Huh

what?

If you buy an Xbox for 300 USD then you are down 300
If you buy an Xbox with 1BTC (worth 300 USD) and then buy 1BTC (at 300USD) then you are down 600.

FUCKING IDIOT

Let me spell it out for you.

Suppose you want to buy an Xbox which is 300 USD.

You have 300 USD in your bank account, and 5 BTC in your wallet.

Scenario 1: you pay the Xbox with dollars. You now have: 1 Xbox, 0 USD, and 5 BTC.

Scenario 2: you pay the Xbox with bitcoins, and you buy back the same amount of bitcoins (i.e. 300 USD worth) on an exchange right away. You now have: 1 Xbox, 0 USD, and 5 BTC.

See the difference in the end result? Now, which scenario do you think will help Bitcoin grow more.

Note that in either scenario, it doesn't matter how cheap or expensive you originally bought the bitcoins. It ONLY matters that you are now spending 300 USD worth of bitcoins (at today's rate) and buying back the exact same amount of bitcoins right away (which will cost you 300 USD, give or take 0.1% exchange fees maybe).

Thank you.
I thought my explanation was retard safe, but I underestimated the retard level of some people in here.

Jace

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Quote from: drbrock on February 12, 2015, 12:10:34 PM

WHAT?

This makes no sense to me. Assume BTC was 10.000 and is now 300? Huh

what?

If you buy an Xbox for 300 USD then you are down 300
If you buy an Xbox with 1BTC (worth 300 USD) and then buy 1BTC (at 300USD) then you are down 600.

FUCKING IDIOT

Let me spell it out for you.

Suppose you want to buy an Xbox which is 300 USD.

You have 300 USD in your bank account, and 5 BTC in your wallet.

Scenario 1: you pay the Xbox with dollars. You now have: 1 Xbox, 0 USD, and 5 BTC.

Scenario 2: you pay the Xbox with bitcoins, and you buy back the same amount of bitcoins (i.e. 300 USD worth) on an exchange right away. You now have: 1 Xbox, 0 USD, and 5 BTC.

See the difference in the end result? Now, which scenario do you think will help Bitcoin grow more.

Note that in either scenario, it doesn't matter how cheap or expensive you originally bought the bitcoins. It ONLY matters that you are now spending 300 USD worth of bitcoins (at today's rate) and buying back the exact same amount of bitcoins right away (which will cost you 300 USD, give or take 0.1% exchange fees maybe).

tss

hero member

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so basically decrease supply and price goes up? i think i read that somewhere in school. duh

rax

member

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Quote from: odolvlobo on February 12, 2015, 05:17:24 PM

Quote from: rax on February 12, 2015, 11:37:24 AM

Be it as it may, bitcoin price can only rise if there is demand for the coin. And demand means hoarding.

There is a difference between holding and hoarding. Demand comes from holding for any period of time, not just hoarding.

But when that period ends and you put your coins for sale you no longer have demand, it just turned into new supply. Thus leaving hoarding as the most pure form of demand.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: dKingston on February 12, 2015, 05:31:28 PM

I agree, hoard Bitcoin and price will go up ..

But only until you sell it. Then the price will go down.

dKingston

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LAUNDER BITCOIN: https://BitLaunder.com

I agree, hoard Bitcoin and price will go up ..

odolvlobo

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Activity: 4466

Merit: 3391

Quote from: rax on February 12, 2015, 11:37:24 AM

Be it as it may, bitcoin price can only rise if there is demand for the coin. And demand means hoarding.

There is a difference between holding and hoarding. Demand comes from holding for any period of time, not just hoarding.

BitNerd

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Quote from: kingama on February 09, 2015, 03:27:00 AM

OP is 100% correct. Bitcoin works as a payment network, sure, but it's really not the best payment network from a practical point of view. What Bitcoin is best at is being a kind of vault for the storage-of-value that has never been seen before. You can keep your millions in your fucking head!

Bitcoins are secured by math and yet so many of you want to use it like a glorified Visa/MasterCard/Amex.

I used to look at a metric called Cost per transaction which is the daily mining revenue over the number of transactions that day. When the Cyprus bubble hit this metric went way up which only proved to me that the value in Bitcoin isn't in payments. You would expect with further use that that number will go down so it can "compete" with Visa, etc. Instead that movement showed that this beautiful thing is a store-of-value first, and a payment network second.

Hold.

I tend to believe more this kind of thinking. Btc's greatest value is as a vault for storage of money away from the dirty hands and eyes of government. Whatever currency people use for transactions, you can buy it with btc and then spend. And you can do that anywhere in the world.

HODL

oblivi

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Some people has been commentating on the fact they see using BTC for mundane stuff like everyday groceries and whatnot a total waste. I agree. What do I gain? If I was a BTC whale then yes, but if you are another brick in the wall like 99% of us, every satoshi counts into building a decent stack of BTC in hopes it is a success and it gains purchasing power in the future.

turvarya

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Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Quote from: drbrock on February 12, 2015, 12:10:34 PM

Quote from: turvarya on February 08, 2015, 08:36:20 AM

Quote from: cuddaloreappu on February 08, 2015, 05:07:00 AM

Quote from: Jace on February 08, 2015, 04:18:00 AM

Quote from: cuddaloreappu on February 07, 2015, 10:41:09 PM

So if you want bitcoin to succeed! just hold your bitcoins! dont spend them around! you may feel sad and bad if the 200$ you spent could be worth 1000$ tomorrow and that you threw them away cheaply!

No, no, NO! As a strong bullish long-term Bitcoin believer, I completely disagree Angry

Even if you consider your bitcoins as long term investment, rather than spending money - what do you think will help raising the value of your precious bitcoins more:

1. Hodling your bitcoins and spending USD, thus only stimulating the USD economy

or

2. Spending your bitcoins, thus stimulating the BTC economy, and immediately buying back new bitcoins (on exchange or circle or whatever), thus increasing demand for Bitcoin on the market.

Notice that the end result is the same: you essentially purchased some stuff, lost some USD, and kept your BTC. But with option nr. 2, you're actively helping to raise the Bitcoin price level on two ends: Bitcoin economy AND market demand. I really don't understand why even the most fanatic Bitcoin owners don't seem to get this Undecided

Especially if you're a Bitcoin fan, believer, enthusiast, investor, or hodler, SPEND THEM! (And immediately refill your stash of bitcoins by buying new ones with fiat)

By just sitting on your coins, instead of using them, Bitcoin won't grow! Spend them, and buy back at the same time.

I got to be rich to do that..buy an xbox with usd for 300$ or else buy with btc for 600$(to buy equal btc again)

I guess you are really bad at math. So, I give you an example.
Let's assume you bought 10 BTC for USD 1000 each last year.

Now, you want to buy an Xbox.
Scenario 1:
You buy it with fiat.
You spend 300 USD.
(-10.000)+(-300)=-10.300 [USD]
10 = 10 BTC

Scenario 2:
You buy with BTC and replenish. Assume 1 BTC=300 USD
(-10.000)+(-300)=-10.300 [USD]
10-1+1=10 BTC

Have you lost any money in Scenario 2? No
But you have stimulated BTC-economy.
Have you put selling pressure on the BTC-market? No. The merchant has sold 1 BTC, but you have bought 1 BTC, which nullifies:
(-1)+1=0

WHAT?

This makes no sense to me. Assume BTC was 10.000 and is now 300? Huh

what?

If you buy an Xbox for 300 USD then you are down 300
If you buy an Xbox with 1BTC (worth 300 USD) and then buy 1BTC (at 300USD) then you are down 600.

FUCKING IDIOT

lol
Come on, are you serious?
Check your math. It is really basic.

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: Possum577 on February 12, 2015, 12:59:05 PM

Quote from: coinableS on February 07, 2015, 11:54:49 PM

The occasional visit to the bitoinrichlist.com is a good reminder that there aren't even 250k addresses with >1 BTC. We all know everyone has more than one address, so it would be safe to believe there are much less than 250,000 people with >1 BTC. Sure some people could have 0.3 on four different addresses but I think it's more likely that people who split their balance up among multiple addresses have larger holdings.

You mean "much MORE" than 250,000 people with >1 BTC, because people have multiple addresses with less than BTC but added together they total more than 1 BTC.

Even then, im sure people that own 1 BTC is a minority and this will be increasingly happening if the price goes back up and stabilizes.

Possum577

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Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Loose lips sink sigs!

Quote from: coinableS on February 07, 2015, 11:54:49 PM

The occasional visit to the bitoinrichlist.com is a good reminder that there aren't even 250k addresses with >1 BTC. We all know everyone has more than one address, so it would be safe to believe there are much less than 250,000 people with >1 BTC. Sure some people could have 0.3 on four different addresses but I think it's more likely that people who split their balance up among multiple addresses have larger holdings.

You mean "much MORE" than 250,000 people with >1 BTC, because people have multiple addresses with less than BTC but added together they total more than 1 BTC.

Topic: HODL, HOARD your cypto GOLD! All Hail the Hoarders! (Read 4925 times)