Topic: HODLers or Tether - who do we blame? (Read 389 times)
I think on both sides there are interested parties who are striving to benefit in their own way, and as a whole, more control is needed on the part of some that would make the market more stable and predictable
Tether is not to be blame. Tether serve as a stable coins for anyone who want to hedge his position or avoid his holdings from depreciating. Neither do you blame holders who have patience to wait even when coins are going down to a price that demand a sell off.
Different people blame different things. The important thing to remember is to stop listening to everyone's opinion, but rather to form an educated opinion of your own. People often post those kinds of articles for views, rather then to inform people. The marketing aspect of crypto is very real.
I believe that only Tether here is a great threat to bitcoin. That's 2 830 109 502 USDT minted and there is no proof that money really exist. Just imagine what will happen if it turns out there is no real dollars behind.
So, you believe that if there were no suspicions about tether or the hodlers did not sell the price would continue upwards and we would be counting our profits?
The market correction was long overdue and it had nothing to do with hodlers or tether. If I would have to choose a certain group, I'd blame investors who shorted futures and Bitcoin after double top at 20k.
The market correction was long overdue and it had nothing to do with hodlers or tether. If I would have to choose a certain group, I'd blame investors who shorted futures and Bitcoin after double top at 20k.
A new study says "Tether Used to Manipulate Price of Bitcoin During 2017 Peak"
Tether, one of the most-traded cryptocurrencies, shows a pattern of being spent on Bitcoin at pivotal moments..
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-13/professor-who-rang-vix-alarm-says-tether-used-to-boost-bitcoin
And then another study says HODLers started the decline and then continued to sell into the dip.
Bitcoin Price Decline Caused by Hodlers’ Unprecedented $30 Billion Sell-Off: Research
https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-price-decline-caused-by-hodlers-unprecedented-30-billion-sell-off-research/
The common ground is both groups wanting to cash out IMO.
So who do you guys blame?
Tether, one of the most-traded cryptocurrencies, shows a pattern of being spent on Bitcoin at pivotal moments..
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-13/professor-who-rang-vix-alarm-says-tether-used-to-boost-bitcoin
And then another study says HODLers started the decline and then continued to sell into the dip.
Bitcoin Price Decline Caused by Hodlers’ Unprecedented $30 Billion Sell-Off: Research
https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-price-decline-caused-by-hodlers-unprecedented-30-billion-sell-off-research/
The common ground is both groups wanting to cash out IMO.
So who do you guys blame?
I will blame tether because they started the manipulation While hodlers reacted due to fear of fall in price.
Tether is being traded for a couple of years and this year is the only time that it's being used for manipulation. I don't believe on the article that was linked by the OP, it could've been boosted earlier if they had the opportunity. The second article feels like a speculation how do they know that it was sold to new speculators these sold coins can end up on the same people since rebuying is a possibility. There are other things to point out that could've contributed to this downward movement(exchange hack,trustee,whales,etc).
Due the nature of Bitcoin being a new asset class, it will be even worse and people go to the extremes (FOMO or panic selling), as years go by and assuming nothing wrong happens with the fundamental technology, these swings will be smaller in % long term as price grows.
Seriously, people react as if some 10 year-long trend has reversed, but in reality this $20,000k price was just a short-lived fluctuation and people are just salty that they missed the opportunity to sell at 3x times higher price than today, so they are looking for scapegoats. And with all the predictions it's clear that so many Bitcoiners still threat Bitcoin as get rich quick scheme, they expect to get big returns in a few weeks or a few months, very few people are treating Bitcoin as a long-term investment for years or decades.
If we have Tether option to accumulate more Bitcoins why we will not use it.
Everyone likes to earn money and anyone who is ok with a risk is going to take the advantage of it.
Everyone likes to earn money and anyone who is ok with a risk is going to take the advantage of it.
I blame -----
EVERYONE.
They're the ones who pushed the prices up to genuinely stupid heights in the first place. They're also the ones who realised they had paid too much. They're also the ones who refused to pay too much to buy from the everyone who paid too much.
Scum.
EVERYONE.
They're the ones who pushed the prices up to genuinely stupid heights in the first place. They're also the ones who realised they had paid too much. They're also the ones who refused to pay too much to buy from the everyone who paid too much.
Scum.
You don't have to blame the hodlers who believed it is the best time to cash out their investment and I don't see how Tether should be blamed either.
This is a decentralized market meaning their is no central authority so you/I can't blame anyone but ourselves.
This is a decentralized market meaning their is no central authority so you/I can't blame anyone but ourselves.
I think that both of them are guilty, but holders who have been in here for more than years have nothing to do with the actual state of bitcoin at the moment.
if you look at the cost of mining. which depending on electric and generation of asic used is $6k-$9k region roughly per btc.. the price has NOT tanked below a healthy cost of creating btc.
This is an interesting point I've never really considered. Is there an estimate of what the margins for the miners are? If the average cost to mine 1 bitcion is really between $6K and $9K, some of them are currently mining at a loss. yes they are mining at a loss in some places. which is why if you check some of the charts. some locations with high electric have turned off a few rigs.
but some will still mine even at a loss, because they just hold for a long time due to paying lectric as a yearly contract so dont need to cash out instantly
some pools with low electric and are using the new gen asics have added more(20% in some cases) and making profit even at this mis $6k range of prices.
but that only accounts to at most 1800btc a day of support line. however before october there were 16+m coins in circulation and it seems the majority are refusing to sell below the $6k bottom line that begane in october 2017. and that $6k line has been tstd many many times and people have had ample oppertunity to sell down if they wanted to. which shows that the 'churn' from old buy to new buyer has already occured of those willing to sell below $6k and now the holders are happy to hold above $6k and wont sell for less
neither of them, blame those Sharks and stupid gamblers.
Neither tether is to blame nor holders. I can't understand how hodlers are to be blamed here, in fact they are the ones who decrease the selling pressure from the market and cause a opposite effect and increase the buying pressure. These dumps are done by the whales to manipulate the markets so that week hands sell their coins into their bags.
No one is responsible,just panic seller
Bloomberg says the press is misinterpreting the professor:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-06-15/bitcoin-manipulation-study-is-less-than-it-seems
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-06-15/bitcoin-manipulation-study-is-less-than-it-seems
Quote
University of Texas at Austin finance professor John Griffin and graduate student Amin Shams just posted a paper suggesting that cryptocurrency prices are manipulated. The paper has received a great deal of attention in the media, but there is a disconnect between the paper and the press coverage in terms of quantification.
For example:
The authors suggest the cryptocurrency exchange Bitfinex buys bitcoin with another cryptocurrency -- tether -- to push up Bitcoin prices. How much? Four basis points per 100 bitcoin. With Bitcoin at $10,000, for example, that means Bitfinex spends $1 million to push the price up to $10,004.
The authors assert that the purchases are not random in that they occur more often after Bitcoin prices have fallen. How much? After the biggest drops in Bitcoin price, 1 Bitfinex buys 72 extra bitcoin. More than 100,000 Bitcoin frequently trade in an hour, and often much more during periods of high volatility.
The authors examined the 87 hours with the largest flows of bitcoin and tether and found that the hours following them accounted for 50 percent of the "meteoric rise" in bitcoin. That sounds impressive, but the rise over the period discussed was from about $1,000 to $8,000. The authors used compounded returns, which mean returns in those 87 hours averaged 1.2 percent. For the S&P 500 Index, a 1.2 percent move is a big hour. For Bitcoin, not so much.
For example:
The authors suggest the cryptocurrency exchange Bitfinex buys bitcoin with another cryptocurrency -- tether -- to push up Bitcoin prices. How much? Four basis points per 100 bitcoin. With Bitcoin at $10,000, for example, that means Bitfinex spends $1 million to push the price up to $10,004.
The authors assert that the purchases are not random in that they occur more often after Bitcoin prices have fallen. How much? After the biggest drops in Bitcoin price, 1 Bitfinex buys 72 extra bitcoin. More than 100,000 Bitcoin frequently trade in an hour, and often much more during periods of high volatility.
The authors examined the 87 hours with the largest flows of bitcoin and tether and found that the hours following them accounted for 50 percent of the "meteoric rise" in bitcoin. That sounds impressive, but the rise over the period discussed was from about $1,000 to $8,000. The authors used compounded returns, which mean returns in those 87 hours averaged 1.2 percent. For the S&P 500 Index, a 1.2 percent move is a big hour. For Bitcoin, not so much.
It's a combination of many factors such as fear of regulation and mt gox dumping too many bitcoins on the exchanges. Hacked exchanges didn't help the situation and then panic sellers decided to cash out.
Does that mean, is there a manipulation of bitcoin prices?
There is but it is not done by Tether developers or HOLDers themselves. The ones who might be pulling the string are those with enough money to pay reporters to spread FUDs about bitcoin.The common ground is both groups wanting to cash out IMO.
So who do you guys blame?
Both groups are free to do so and we should not blame them, I myself will dump bitcoin at low prices now if I bought it at sub 1000$ below. Rather than blaming them, I'd say that the current price drop was inevitable because everyone cannot cash out at the same time at high prices near the peak. So who do you guys blame?
Does that mean, is there a manipulation of bitcoin prices? But I think that's impossible, I do not know. Maybe I do not understand all that ...
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