HODLing Bitcoin isn't merely an "investment" - page 3.

sunsilk

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 03, 2023, 09:51:07 AM

I saw a post made by someone in which he told his story about his investment in Bitcoin and how it helped him go through the financially challenging times that the COVID-19 pandemic brought. A good, heart-warming story by a fellow Bitcoiner, BUT we shouldn't forget that simply HODLing/owning Bitcoin could also be a kind of political movement, because its features could make Bitcoin weaken or break down political strongholds.

It might be premature to call it a revolutionary movement, but what were the motivations of the early cypherpunks when they were building their tools? Satoshi's message in the Genesis Block is also political.

Cool

Even if there's always the attachment of Bitcoin related to politics as by its typical nature of being "decentralized", I guess that's the root of it.

But then, when Biden has firstly stepped on the White House, I thought that he has said about related to Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies and he'll handle that separately.

Until now, I haven't seen that and it's not actually him that's moving or maybe it's with his blessing and these people that have been criticizing bitcoin like the SEC are the ones being instructed to do so.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 04, 2023, 03:36:48 AM

Quote from: DaveF on May 03, 2023, 10:07:26 AM

Although I agree with the sentiment, I really think we should be pushing more of a 'you do you' kind of thing.
Possibly you want to hold, I want to trade, and that other person over there wants to get BTC so he can buy stuff.

We should be helping people do what they want with no preconceived notions.

Yes, we can point out the good / bad / ugly of what they may or may not want to do. But beyond that, it's their coin. Do with it as they want.

-Dave

Absolutely, a person can have the freedom to have his/her own Bitcoin lifestyle and have his/her own attitude/purpose. But I believe it's undeniable that Bitcoin will always be something political, because by its very nature, the way it was technically designed, its features have the ability to weaken and break down political strongholds and many people have not truly understood that. I believe Nayib Bukele did.

Cool

Yes, It represents a significant change in the way we think about money and its role in society and Nayib Bukele, president of El Salvador, realized this potential and made history by becoming the first country to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender. Another reason why Bitcoin is not simply an investment is because it has the potential to reshape the current financial system.

My reason Traditional financial institutions have long monopolized the global financial system, creating barriers to entry for many individuals and communities. This means that more people adopting Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies has the potential to shift the balance of power away from centralized institutions and toward individuals and society.

kryptqnick

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The op has a good point, a point that is often forgotten. Indeed, holding Bitcoin can be a political choice, a choice not to trust traditional financial institutions and fiat currencies, regulated by authorities. And that can be done without expectations that Bitcoin will rise and merely because of the importance of supporting something that introduced unprecedented financial freedom, sort of like people give money to support a cause sometimes.
To those asking how it weakens strongholds, I believe that the act of holding Bitcoin is already a statement. A statement that I don't need a bank to store or send my money, and that I don't need an official fiat currency to store it in, either. This undermines the role of traditional institutions because it shows that they aren't as necessary as they want us to think they are.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: DaveF on May 03, 2023, 10:07:26 AM

Although I agree with the sentiment, I really think we should be pushing more of a 'you do you' kind of thing.
Possibly you want to hold, I want to trade, and that other person over there wants to get BTC so he can buy stuff.

We should be helping people do what they want with no preconceived notions.

Yes, we can point out the good / bad / ugly of what they may or may not want to do. But beyond that, it's their coin. Do with it as they want.

-Dave

Absolutely, a person can have the freedom to have his/her own Bitcoin lifestyle and have his/her own attitude/purpose. But I believe it's undeniable that Bitcoin will always be something political, because by its very nature, the way it was technically designed, its features have the ability to weaken and break down political strongholds and many people have not truly understood that. I believe Nayib Bukele did.

Cool

Pandu Geddon

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however, those who own Bitcoin are free to use it. some consider Bitcoin as an investment asset by simply holding. anyone trading Bitcoins. even in countries that are free to use Bitcoin as a transaction tool, they collect Bitcoin for their needs.
many different functions are the goal of everyone who has it. whatever political goals are aimed at, all never really know and cannot force someone to use the Bitcoin they have.

South Park

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 03, 2023, 09:51:07 AM

I saw a post made by someone in which he told his story about his investment in Bitcoin and how it helped him go through the financially challenging times that the COVID-19 pandemic brought. A good, heart-warming story by a fellow Bitcoiner, BUT we shouldn't forget that simply HODLing/owning Bitcoin could also be a kind of political movement, because its features could make Bitcoin weaken or break down political strongholds.

It might be premature to call it a revolutionary movement, but what were the motivations of the early cypherpunks when they were building their tools? Satoshi's message in the Genesis Block is also political.

Cool

It depends, I am pretty sure that a great deal of the early adopters did not bought or mine bitcoin because they wanted to obtain money, or at least it was not their main motivation, their main motivation was to be part of a project which could change the world, but since then the motivations of the people that come to this market have changed in dramatic ways, and they do not care at all about the ideology or the principles behind bitcoin, they care about the personal benefits they can get out of it and that is it, and personally I am not against it as if there is something that anyone can understand are the benefits they can get out of something.

BlackHatCoiner

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Quote from: Hamza2424 on May 03, 2023, 10:31:30 AM

But Point is will it ever happen?

If it will, it'll be around at the time fiat currencies collapse. I wouldn't bet against this. Debts have reached levels that are impossible to pay back. At some point in the future, maybe in this decade, we will experience this loss of confidence which will be followed by a very sensed devaluation. Just trust your guts and hodl.

darkv0rt3x

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Quote from: DaveF on May 03, 2023, 10:07:26 AM

Although I agree with the sentiment, I really think we should be pushing more of a 'you do you' kind of thing.
Possibly you want to hold, I want to trade, and that other person over there wants to get BTC so he can buy stuff.

We should be helping people do what they want with no preconceived notions.

Yes, we can point out the good / bad / ugly of what they may or may not want to do. But beyond that, it's their coin. Do with it as they want.

-Dave

I can agree up to some extent. What I would change in your statement was maybe education so that people can chose what to do with their coins "more" wisely. I usualy say that for now, hodling Bitcoin is the best option and also, in a more extreme statement, I usualy also say that Bitcoin wouldn0t need traders at all if there was mass adoption. But in this (yet) initial and precoce times of Bitcoin, yeah, trading seems to be important in the sense that at least Bitcoin is changing ownership over the world. What I don't like in trading, specially with Bitcoin, is that when one sells Bitcoin at higher price that the buy price, indirectly that person is devaluating Bitcoin, because he was able to get more fiat for the same amount of Bitcoin.

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Quote from: tread93 on May 03, 2023, 12:46:17 PM

Its not political, its financial. The whole genesis block talked about the banks being bailed out, exactly what is happening today! When politics are involved this is when you get mixed messages. Everything political today is now "fake news" news has been bought out, you can't buy out bitcoin though! Bitcoin is everything but political its a system designed to take politics out of the money picture, bitcoin is just pure potential IMO!

It definitely is political, but let me explain.
There are fractions within every government that don't care about bitcoin at all, but there are also those who are for or against it and make their stance public every time they're asked (or not).
Some good examples from the US are Elizabeth Warren and Warren Davidson, you can look them up online along with their opinions about bitcoin.

As time goes by, holding bitcoin will not only influence your voting, but it will become voting. If you decide to invest a lot of money into bitcoin, you will want to support politicians who try to make your life easier. As a politician, you will have to be aware that openly criticizing bitcoin will make you lose votes of people who hold it. The more bitcoiners there are the more votes you will be losing... or gaining, depending on your stance.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 03, 2023, 09:51:07 AM

BUT we shouldn't forget that simply HODLing/owning Bitcoin could also be a kind of political movement, because its features could make Bitcoin weaken or break down political strongholds.

Whenever a discussion comes up about how the government has so much control over the citizens financially and how to reduce this power of government and give freedom to citizens, bitcoin always comes up as a solution. So I get the idea that accepting and Hodling bitcoins can be a kind of political movement that aims to restore some sort of freedom to the people. Endorsing and encouraging bitcoin use can also be equated to promotion of this kind of political movement. The government see it as such too, it is part of the reason why they are fighting so hard against it.

Z390

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We all can't face the same path OP, every humans that God created have their missions on this earth, their fate are not the same and so is their fingerprints.

many Bitcoin investors have their plans and it's never going to be different, all bitcoin investors can't decide to hold, time is a crucial thing in crypto, some will hold for a year and sell while some are capable of holding for 10 or 15 years, there are many traders that trade Bitcoin daily and weekly yet they are not holding any Bitcoin.

The whole political thing with Bitcoin is all about the fear of someone using Bitcoin to their advantage while the other don't, a politician can use Bitcoin to do some hidden funding for him to become the next ruler over all, this is one of the reasons why Bitcoin is a threat and it will always be.

rhodelmabanal

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I think holding a bitcoin is an investments and only the investors who has a big patience can win or earn profit, if we are going to hold bitcoin and we cannot wait for the right time to sell because we need funds then we will surely loss, most of the expert say's that only invest an amount that you can afford to loss or invest your extra money not the money that is needed for the daily needs to avoid selling pressure of your holdings, so for me holding btc is an investment because we can earn if we have patinece on it.

Who is John Galt?

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Quote from: m2017 on May 03, 2023, 11:28:21 AM

How can HODLing/owning BTC weaken existing political strongholds? Could you explain? You touch on an interesting topic and it would be nice if you develop it better.

More useful can be from the use of bitcoin, which is, in fact, the first cypherpunks and conceived. After all, they conceived it as a digital means of payment, and not a means for investment. Their protest was to switch to an alternative currency from the traditional monetary system. So it turns out that the more people will use BTC, the stronger this revolutionary movement will be and the more the very strongholds of which you speak will be weakened.

On the one hand, of course, bitcoin is designed for us to use it, and most of us are interested in this. This is important and necessary. On the other hand, the mempool has grown in recent days, and it shows, I think, that bitcoin is already in active use, and technically there is not much room for even more use growth at the moment.

If we encourage people to use it more often, we will simply face more competition for block space and a higher entry threshold for new participants interested in bitcoin. Not everyone knows about LN.

Ultegra134

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Quote from: m2017 on May 03, 2023, 11:28:21 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 03, 2023, 09:51:07 AM

I saw a post made by someone in which he told his story about his investment in Bitcoin and how it helped him go through the financially challenging times that the COVID-19 pandemic brought. A good, heart-warming story by a fellow Bitcoiner, BUT we shouldn't forget that simply HODLing/owning Bitcoin could also be a kind of political movement, because its features could make Bitcoin weaken or break down political strongholds.

It might be premature to call it a revolutionary movement, but what were the motivations of the early cypherpunks when they were building their tools? Satoshi's message in the Genesis Block is also political.

Cool

How can HODLing/owning BTC weaken existing political strongholds? Could you explain? You touch on an interesting topic and it would be nice if you develop it better.

More useful can be from the use of bitcoin, which is, in fact, the first cypherpunks and conceived. After all, they conceived it as a digital means of payment, and not a means for investment. Their protest was to switch to an alternative currency from the traditional monetary system. So it turns out that the more people will use BTC, the stronger this revolutionary movement will be and the more the very strongholds of which you speak will be weakened.

I also don't understand how Bitcoin is perceived as a political movement that breaks down governments, as the OP is claiming. I recognize that governments certainly aren't fond of cryptocurrencies for obvious reasons (money laundering, tax evasion, privacy, no control over them, some of which are also extremely common with fiat currencies, but that's another story), although that doesn't cancel their investment nature. You may not consider holding as an active investment, but it's practically no different than buying an asset such as gold; you don't have to actively trade to be considered an investment.

tread93

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 03, 2023, 09:51:07 AM

I saw a post made by someone in which he told his story about his investment in Bitcoin and how it helped him go through the financially challenging times that the COVID-19 pandemic brought. A good, heart-warming story by a fellow Bitcoiner, BUT we shouldn't forget that simply HODLing/owning Bitcoin could also be a kind of political movement, because its features could make Bitcoin weaken or break down political strongholds.

It might be premature to call it a revolutionary movement, but what were the motivations of the early cypherpunks when they were building their tools? Satoshi's message in the Genesis Block is also political.

Cool

Its not political, its financial. The whole genesis block talked about the banks being bailed out, exactly what is happening today! When politics are involved this is when you get mixed messages. Everything political today is now "fake news" news has been bought out, you can't buy out bitcoin though! Bitcoin is everything but political its a system designed to take politics out of the money picture, bitcoin is just pure potential IMO!

Die_empty

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 03, 2023, 09:51:07 AM

I saw a post made by someone in which he told his story about his investment in Bitcoin and how it helped him go through the financially challenging times that the COVID-19 pandemic brought. A good, heart-warming story by a fellow Bitcoiner, BUT we shouldn't forget that simply HODLing/owning Bitcoin could also be a kind of political movement, because its features could make Bitcoin weaken or break down political strongholds.

It might be premature to call it a revolutionary movement, but what were the motivations of the early cypherpunks when they were building their tools? Satoshi's message in the Genesis Block is also political.

Cool

I also share this dream of political freedom through bitcoin mass adoption. Fiat has been a control tool in the hands of the government to control the entire activities of humans. They make and enforce draconian economic policies to force their political will on the people.

An example is my country when the government restricted cash withdrawal from citizens while government officials were given unhindered access to cash because they want to force the people to vote for them. Due to lack of money citizens were forced to sell their votes for peanuts because they needed money to buy food. Bitcoin would have been a political and economic tool to frustrate these evil plots by these politicians because it would have given the populace unhindered access to their money. Mass adoption will make this dream real.

BITCOIN4X

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I stated that I agree with that view because basically bitcoin is a multi-purpose asset that can be utilized by its users for different purposes.

We can't encourage anyone to think only one function of bitcoin, but every bitcoin owner has full rights to manage their coin assets and plan something with it. I invest in bitcoin, at the same time other people are trading, while others are also using bitcoin as a means of payment, and it's all legal. In fact there are many things about bitcoin use cases that have not been explored by its users.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 03, 2023, 09:51:07 AM

I saw a post made by someone in which he told his story about his investment in Bitcoin and how it helped him go through the financially challenging times that the COVID-19 pandemic brought. A good, heart-warming story by a fellow Bitcoiner, BUT we shouldn't forget that simply HODLing/owning Bitcoin could also be a kind of political movement, because its features could make Bitcoin weaken or break down political strongholds.

That's a nice idea, some of us may not know that at the end of it all,not all of us will ended up holding because we cannot hodl at tge same time without selling at any point in time, also bot everyone that hodl make profit from their holding because they might have missed the targeted time for them to earn while holding, maybe the more reason why bitcoin remains volatile so that so that demand and supply remain constant, which means as long as you might have hold, you will still resulted into selling.

Z-tight

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BTC weakening political strongholds when people hold it is too much 'work' for BTC Tongue

, i understand that you are trying to say that BTC being permissionless and censorship resistant is very different from the traditional money controlled by politicians, and if many people lose faith in the bank and grow faith in BTC, it would be a shift from the political and traditional ways.

Anyway this will not happen by only holding BTC, but spending it and using it in many other ways. Once people get tired of certain authorities controlling the money they are using, they will look for options and BTC is the best one.

Lorence.xD

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It might not count as investment but hodling could also have advantage. Remember when people who bought BTC in a cheap price then opened their address after a decade? Yeah instant millionaire I guess, since we all have different way of earning or profiting. But hodling doesn't also guarantee you success like the BTC did. Investment could also the same but once the BTC you owned are in the market, then you're part of the game already. Unlike hodling you just wait for miracle to happen.

Topic: HODLing Bitcoin isn't merely an "investment" - page 3. (Read 577 times)