I think the argument is wider then just Trump, because of tax codes its better to be in debt then declare a profit and pay tax on it. If a sequence of bankruptcies occurred it was probably related to a systemic change in that state or area, tax codes could be part of it any change there can be great in justifying the ongoing operations and bias. Not just within the state but if nearby states alter their laws to make their own business more competitive then it reduce the advantages that were previously true in Atlantic City for so long.
Add in also the quite obvious competition ongoing from online gambling, it used to be gambling was so restricted anywhere that allowed it had quite a bonus to their operations from that government regulatory dynamic putting them in the spot light. I think that restriction overall can be said to be lifting generally. I think in China they ban gambling apart from certain regions only they are allowed a more lax regime but thats a communist authoritarian setup of law and dictatorship where as the laws in other countries are unlikely to be quite the same stranglehold on the common economy.
Topic: House always wins? The case of Trump Plaza. (Read 419 times)
I have never heard this building since I am not from the state and never followed Trump after he's out of the presidency. But if it's about the actual gambling business, there are several factors that we can guess about it. Maybe, the board of members and directors don't agree anymore to each other and doesn't share anymore the same goal in the long term of their operation and that's a big disagreement that they have to close down the business.
Next, the casino business is no longer profitable which I highly doubt. But who knows, right? With all of the operating expenses, salaries, internal and external expenses, there is a possibility.
Another possibility that adds impact to lesser to no profitability about the change of most gamblers like with the transition of gambling offline to online.
Next, the casino business is no longer profitable which I highly doubt. But who knows, right? With all of the operating expenses, salaries, internal and external expenses, there is a possibility.
Another possibility that adds impact to lesser to no profitability about the change of most gamblers like with the transition of gambling offline to online.
Physical casinos are giving way to online casinos. I think that might be why this casino closed down. There's nothing in our age that hasn't been transformed online. Everything that doesn't go online is lost to time. I can't remember the last time I went to a physical casino. I used to go to physical shops to bet on football matches. But now I find them noisy and unpleasant. I think a casino can never make a loss. But it can choose to keep up with the times.
You are right
Although the casino business is a very profitable business, many factors can cause it to go bankrupt. But, in the case of Trump's casino, I think there is more to it than just being bankrupt. When businesses go bankrupt, they do not demolish their buildings and destroy properties, rather they sell off properties to raise money to settle their creditors while the balance left goes to the owners of the business. If Trump's Casino was going through financial and other management issues, demolishing the casino instead of selling it off to other casino owners or other people inorder to make money from it sends a different message entirely. Demolishing the casino is not a wise decision except the casino went against the government's authorities or it was cited in a wrong location.
Physical casinos are giving way to online casinos. I think that might be why this casino closed down. There's nothing in our age that hasn't been transformed online. Everything that doesn't go online is lost to time. I can't remember the last time I went to a physical casino. I used to go to physical shops to bet on football matches. But now I find them noisy and unpleasant. I think a casino can never make a loss. But it can choose to keep up with the times.
When it is said that the house always wins it is because of the big numbers. For the house, to run casino games that have an HE is EV+. But a casino is a business like any other and to keep it running other factors come into play, such as being able to attract enough customers to spend enough. Plus as mentioned Trump plaza was not just a casino.
Yeah, we should say for a number of reasons. You already hand out a couple of them. House edge must be the primary source of a casino to exist longer but I already saw some casinos who have no house edge. They probably have other means to sustain their operations like they advertise a brand or something.A good business or a casino can attract lots of customers but in order to become good, they may need to have enough budget first and spend it like crazy on different things like promotion for example. Trump plaza is too huge for only just a casino, plus its name is also a plaza which mean a place where people can walk and relax but I think they also offer a hotel and restaurant service.
Do you think this is one of the few cases when the house did not win or perhaps it had something to do with factors external to the casino snd it's management?
The story of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino reflects the ups and downs of Atlantic City's casino sector and Donald Trump's business dealings. Trump's direct role decreased over time due to financial adjustments and legal matters. The saying "the house always wins" shows its limits when external challenges and internal management decisions impact casino operations. Trump Plaza's closure and demolition underscore the importance of adaptability and effective management in business.
Have you ever heard about casinos this big failing to the point they need to be completely demolished before? Because I have not.
The phenomenon of large casinos failing and being demolished isn't unique to Trump Plaza. Im sure if we serch we find another examples. But just because Trump's name has been highly prominent in public discourse, the story has received considerable attention in the media.
Its just shows the ever changing nature of the entertainment and hospitality industries, where adaptability and innovation are key to survival and growth.
Business is business, risk is inevitable in business.
If casino is a zero risk business i.e. anyone who run casino will always profitable, most people will start their own casinos without worrying anything since they will earn money easily.
Big casino has still a chance to fail, it just the chance is really low compared to fairly new casinos.
If casino is a zero risk business i.e. anyone who run casino will always profitable, most people will start their own casinos without worrying anything since they will earn money easily.
Big casino has still a chance to fail, it just the chance is really low compared to fairly new casinos.
This had nothing to do with the house losing. Trump strategically claims bankruptcy at his properties to help with taxes etc. Casinos like this always win because slots are one of the biggest attractions and they can set the win percentage. The casino was just old and with other new casinos coming in, it wasn't worth it to upgrade the casino.
Maybe there's more to the story of why it became bankrupt. There's some scandal or cheeky or shady operations stuff and the only way out is filing bankruptcy? The house definitely did not win here and maybe it's just closing a chapter on Trumps love or something.
There are also too many legal cases and switch in ownership that I cannot find the moral of the story anymore or how it relates to the house not winning all the time.
The OP has a point but could have gone ahead to build on it . Are there casinos that have gone out of business? I think so. He should have highlighted it and gone ahead to state the cause for this. In the case of the above, it was more about ownership tussle like you have said. There are other things that could destroy a casino that has nothing to do with gambling but operational issues.There are lots of issues that revolved around Trump Plaza that lead to its bankruptcy.
If I recall correctly, during the early years of gambling, Atlantic City was one of those gambling havens that started the casino run, with Las Vegas being the number one city for gambling. Despite its growing popularity over the years, it substantially hit a growth slump with tourists not visiting such city/country. Along with the COVID and popularity of online gambling, the gambling empire of Trump was constrained to file for bankruptcy.
Not to mention, with all the legal battles and challenges that was revolving Donald Trump, most people would have preferred to gamble somewhere else. Before, his name carries great power and financial stability- but nowadays people view his name with legal disputes and challenges.
With all things considered, these are just some of the factors on why his gambling empire fell.
Since, it was a plaza offering more services and not just a casino, I wouldn't say the reason for its closure was because the house couldn't win enough but it was most probably because of a lack of proper management and other issues, maybe legal issues were involved as well. I'm saying this because I'm not aware of this and have no knowledge about it, but all I know is that a casino cannot get closed down because of losing, they don't lose more than they win, that's how casinos and gambling work.
A casino would always have enough funds so that they can compensate the winners that are playing on each table available, and they calculate the wins based on the highest bets so that they don't go bankrupt because of a player hitting a big win.
A casino would always have enough funds so that they can compensate the winners that are playing on each table available, and they calculate the wins based on the highest bets so that they don't go bankrupt because of a player hitting a big win.
Every business has to face some difficult times and same happened with Trump Plaza. It's actually first time I'm hearing about Trump Plaza, but after reading about it I found that the plaza was a huge business back in the time when it was operating.
If we check more about Donald Trump as a person then I'm sure most of us will understand that he's one of the most iconic businessmen of the centaury because he tried many businesses and got success in those, however the Trump plaza is among his failed businesses that he also might regret to operate.
There's no solid chances than watching your own personal business grow to become steady stream of income for one. Atleast there will be stress for making money but it's done within your reach and not for some random persons. Every business faces challenges and some come out alive and stronger while some are dismantled following their instability to withstands the obstacles coming. Donald Trump is included in the lists for the powerful men in the world, making life accomplishments with businesses and investments around the world, also in politics and one time president of the United States of America who are world power, he's still coming to run again for presidency. If we check more about Donald Trump as a person then I'm sure most of us will understand that he's one of the most iconic businessmen of the centaury because he tried many businesses and got success in those, however the Trump plaza is among his failed businesses that he also might regret to operate.
Gambling is profitable business so it is not surprising that rich people make gambling one of the businesses they are involved in, especially if in country that already has legal permits for gambling, everything will be easier.
And indeed everyone who knows gambling and really knows about Trump Plaza must be wondering and confused as to why casino of this size and which had clearly developed so well experienced collapse and had to be closed permanently.
If this is related to the house always winning then that is not true because the problems that arose and caused Trump Plaza to close were not due to bankruptcy caused by the winnings of the gamblers.
One must wonder what happened for a casino of this level and category to get in bankruptcy?
Do you think this is one of the few cases when the house did not win or perhaps it had something to do with factors external to the casino snd it's management?
Have you ever heard about casinos this big failing to the point they need to be completely demolished before? Because I have not.
Closure of Trump Plaza was actually not the cause of bankruptcy but because of problems that occurred and caused bad reputation.Do you think this is one of the few cases when the house did not win or perhaps it had something to do with factors external to the casino snd it's management?
Have you ever heard about casinos this big failing to the point they need to be completely demolished before? Because I have not.
And indeed everyone who knows gambling and really knows about Trump Plaza must be wondering and confused as to why casino of this size and which had clearly developed so well experienced collapse and had to be closed permanently.
If this is related to the house always winning then that is not true because the problems that arose and caused Trump Plaza to close were not due to bankruptcy caused by the winnings of the gamblers.
-snip
One must wonder what happened for a casino of this level and category to get in bankruptcy?
Do you think this is one of the few cases when the house did not win or perhaps it had something to do with factors external to the casino snd it's management?
Have you ever heard about casinos this big failing to the point they need to be completely demolished before? Because I have not.
since I have played in the world of gambling, I have never seen a casino go bankrupt just because it was defeated by gamblers.One must wonder what happened for a casino of this level and category to get in bankruptcy?
Do you think this is one of the few cases when the house did not win or perhaps it had something to do with factors external to the casino snd it's management?
Have you ever heard about casinos this big failing to the point they need to be completely demolished before? Because I have not.
but I often hear of land based casinos or online casinos closing casinos simply because poor management causes a lot of debt and is unable to pay back the loans so the casino has to sell or close the casino.
in the case of the Trump Plaza casino, I had never heard of this casino before but I became curious after knowing this news and finding out about all the things that prompted the casino to choose to close the business but it seems to have been answered by other people here and the point is that the casino could went bankrupt but was not caused by the gamblers but was driven by other factors that caused the casino income and expenses to be unequal.
I haven't thought about Trump this week and now this brings him to mind. Lol. He may well be the first person in history whose casino goes bankrupt. Poor leadership can lead to bankruptcy of a business and being in so much debt can be as a result of poor leadership. I wonder how a casino can go bankrupt when they always win. This should be a case study in a business school. Last I heard of the Trump casino, it has been closed since 2014.
*Edit: Trump had nothing to do with the casino as his name being used. He wasn't involved in it operations. So I take my word back.
Thank you for this. Because I also thought that Trump owned that business. *Edit: Trump had nothing to do with the casino as his name being used. He wasn't involved in it operations. So I take my word back.
Quote
Trump cut most ties with Atlantic City in 2009 aside from a 10 per cent fee for the use of his name on what were then three casinos in the city.
Since then, all three casinos have closed or been sold.
The Trump Plaza was sold in 2014 and is now owned by billionaire businessman Carl Icahn.https://www.cbc.ca/kidsnews/post/donald-trumps-former-casino-is-being-blown-up.-heres-why#:~:text=Trump%20cut%20most%20ties%20with,by%20billionaire%20businessman%20Carl%20Icahn.
Since then, all three casinos have closed or been sold.
The Trump Plaza was sold in 2014 and is now owned by billionaire businessman Carl Icahn.https://www.cbc.ca/kidsnews/post/donald-trumps-former-casino-is-being-blown-up.-heres-why#:~:text=Trump%20cut%20most%20ties%20with,by%20billionaire%20businessman%20Carl%20Icahn.
Since that explained remarkably well I guess I will just focus on the question of OP.
One must wonder what happened for a casino of this level and category to get in bankruptcy?
Do you think this is one of the few cases when the house did not win or perhaps it had something to do with factors external to the casino snd it's management?
Have you ever heard about casinos this big failing to the point they need to be completely demolished before? Because I have not.
Management will be one cause of bankruptcy. Because I truly doubt it will be because of the wrong house edge. We cannot win against the house, that's the sacred rule of a casino that will never be bent. There will always be money coming in for the gambling platform, physical or online. Do you think this is one of the few cases when the house did not win or perhaps it had something to do with factors external to the casino snd it's management?
Have you ever heard about casinos this big failing to the point they need to be completely demolished before? Because I have not.
I also doubt that it will be because of a lack of clients, customers, or gamblers. The gambling industry has been growing for the last few years so there will always be customers that will visit either the hotel or the gambling place.
Another case that could ruin a business like this is if investors are pulling out. We all know that it's not just one owner, there will always be investors that will buy a share and if they are gone, it could mean the fall of the business without money coming in or supporting it.
When it is said that the house always wins it is because of the big numbers. For the house, to run casino games that have an HE is EV+. But a casino is a business like any other and to keep it running other factors come into play, such as being able to attract enough customers to spend enough. Plus as mentioned Trump plaza was not just a casino.
~
Seems like Trump was just an investor plus a sort of spokesperson for the casino. Anyhow, there are a LOT of aspects of how a business can simply fall out of the competition imo. The simplest answer would simply be corrupt practices, thereby attracting close to zero positive revenue to the casino or just plain out lost in terms of competition. Can't exactly pinpoint what since I don't know how the business worked in the first place plus the competition of the area around it. Businesses come and go so it's really nothing new. Especially in cases of a casino (or just an entertainment plaza in general), which rely on people wanting to go there, which increases the risks involved compared to say, businesses that are involved in selling goods.
Have you ever heard about casinos this big failing to the point they need to be completely demolished before? Because I have not.
Davidvictorson, already provided the information that Trump has nothing to do with the casino they used his name to become a popular casino, and in turn, Trump got a share of the revenue, that's the easiest way for Trump to make money out of his reputation so he has nothing to regret if it has blown up.
And in the question of the house always winning, they have the house edge so they are on the advantage against every player.
It's not their edge but the competition among casino owners especially in online casinos, big and well-established casinos are eating up the newly launched and small casinos and if the small casinos cannot keep up with the promotion they will likely close, same goes with physical casinos, they need to keep old clients coming back and new players coming in.
Online and offline casinos are profitable provided they can keep up with their marketing there's an influx of new players and they can maintain their reputation.
Every business has to face some difficult times and same happened with Trump Plaza. It's actually first time I'm hearing about Trump Plaza, but after reading about it I found that the plaza was a huge business back in the time when it was operating.
If we check more about Donald Trump as a person then I'm sure most of us will understand that he's one of the most iconic businessmen of the centaury because he tried many businesses and got success in those, however the Trump plaza is among his failed businesses that he also might regret to operate.
If we check more about Donald Trump as a person then I'm sure most of us will understand that he's one of the most iconic businessmen of the centaury because he tried many businesses and got success in those, however the Trump plaza is among his failed businesses that he also might regret to operate.
Trump plaza was a case of notoriously bad management but also corruption from the side of banks.
The data Trump submitted to loan for the creation of this company was exaggerated. The bankers that loaned to him were very greedy. Even though they could see through the fakery of the documents submitted by trump and his cronies, they went ahead to provide loans to his organization.
Trump's actions lead so many people to ruin. Contractors, companies, employees... In a way I'm sure these people wouldn't be sad to see part of his property seized in New York, even though it's a bit of Democrat theatrics.
The thing is that this business failed because of lack of demand on the hotel side. Maintenance and loan costs were too high, and most rooms empty. The casino side probably was earning more than costs, but couldn't cover everything.
The data Trump submitted to loan for the creation of this company was exaggerated. The bankers that loaned to him were very greedy. Even though they could see through the fakery of the documents submitted by trump and his cronies, they went ahead to provide loans to his organization.
Trump's actions lead so many people to ruin. Contractors, companies, employees... In a way I'm sure these people wouldn't be sad to see part of his property seized in New York, even though it's a bit of Democrat theatrics.
The thing is that this business failed because of lack of demand on the hotel side. Maintenance and loan costs were too high, and most rooms empty. The casino side probably was earning more than costs, but couldn't cover everything.
Jump to: