How a digital EURO may look like | Bitcointalksearch.org

iv4n

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Quote from: mindrust on May 03, 2021, 03:26:30 PM

I guess they may even block your commodity purchases with this new system because buying commodities would fuck them up.

So they will make a new chain... with full control over that chain?! Some board of directors, or politicians, will have the power to do with that chain as they like? Like to issue more coins when they like, they will burn some coins, or sell where they wish?!
Isn't all that what we have now?! Of course, as others say, controlling digital will be much easier than controlling cash! So new digital fiat will be fiat, with more powers...

Well, what else to say here than to state the obvious... centralized is centralized in any form! With a digital system, centralized organizations will have more control than they have now... on the other side decentralization is something else! And we will see what will people choose... in the end choice is on us! All of us!

mindrust

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on May 01, 2021, 09:00:01 AM

It's more than that.
Unlike the data from private companies VISA or MasterCard, or payment processors, which they have to ask and may not come so easy, unlike private banks where locking your money may take a while (papers getting sent, approved, operations done only in banking days), their own electronic money solves all this: full control over all the information and tracking, full control for locking or confiscating the coins they want whenever they want.
Shortly: full surveillance and control, that's why they bother. And I expect to be cheaper to be used than credit cards, hence shops may even advertise/prefer this kind of payment.
And yes, I also expect it will allow reversal or payments; being centralized it may not even need a blockchain.

And why would anybody agree to use this surveillance systems? The only viable answer is, they are going to eliminate all the other competitors ,and that includes bitcoin as well, so you won't have any other choice. And if they will be their own payment gates and render VISA/MC obsolete I guess that's very bad news for their shareholders.

As far as I know, they can already confiscate the dollars whenever they want if they are sitting in a bank account but again, the big problem is the physical notes.

I see it as a futile attempt to make people spend their currencies on the stupid shit because that stupid shit (like phones, TV's, luxury cars, newer GPU's) create jobs and the more people get employed the more successful the government looks and the more successful the government looks, the more votes they get in the next election.

I guess they may even block your commodity purchases with this new system because buying commodities would fuck them up.

acquafredda

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on May 01, 2021, 09:00:01 AM

Quote from: mindrust on May 01, 2021, 08:52:25 AM

If they are not going to make it decentralized which they won't as you guessed, why bother? They bother because they don't want the physical notes.

It's more than that.
Unlike the data from private companies VISA or MasterCard, or payment processors, which they have to ask and may not come so easy, unlike private banks where locking your money may take a while (papers getting sent, approved, operations done only in banking days), their own electronic money solves all this: full control over all the information and tracking, full control for locking or confiscating the coins they want whenever they want.
Shortly: full surveillance and control, that's why they bother. And I expect to be cheaper to be used than credit cards, hence shops may even advertise/prefer this kind of payment.
And yes, I also expect it will allow reversal or payments; being centralized it may not even need a blockchain.

It will probably use some sort of so-called DLT (Distributed Lddger Technology) which, of course, does not mean anything!
What I am a bit sad about is that bitcoin was a wake-up call for the financial world which is now finding some very bad ways of improving cash and whatever is related to payments.
I hope the old nice cash coins and notes will survive but I know that in 10-15 years my kids will ask me what those things were because they would not know.

DarkIT

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Quote from: verita1 on May 01, 2021, 07:06:21 PM

Although I do not live in the European Union, it is my positive vision that a public consultation has been made to its citizens on how the digital euro would function for their needs.
Without a doubt, in all parts of the world central banks have realized that they need a transformation to digital alternatives.
The result of the survey glimpses innovation.

With the confidence,I will say EU doesn't made a Digital assest on EURO.Since you are from the EU nation,you may aware about the economy their.They made economy to balance all the nation in EU.So how they accepted a digital currency and make them with different demand on different nation.And they won't allow the less stable coin.

verita1

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Although I do not live in the European Union, it is my positive vision that a public consultation has been made to its citizens on how the digital euro would function for their needs.
Without a doubt, in all parts of the world central banks have realized that they need a transformation to digital alternatives.
The result of the survey glimpses innovation.

just_Alice

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Quote from: Kittygalore on April 29, 2021, 05:39:50 AM

If the government continues to implement digital currency that has a way of tracking your movement, I am pretty sure that there isn't going to be a lot of people that are going to like it. Also, privacy is a commodity in this world full of technology that tracks you. Remove the ability to trace the movement of the people and make it favor the people.

Most people have nothing to hide, so, I suppose, tracking won't be a major constraining factor here. At the same time, most of people worry about the current fees on money transfer and the convenience of this process. If the developers manage to make this digital EURO transfer more advantageous, faster, cheaper - I bet people will follow this idea regardless of privacy issues.

cryptoperkele

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Quote from: paxmao on April 29, 2021, 05:34:33 AM

---cut---

So, yes, privacy is going to be a concern, yes the institutions will not make digital euro anonymous per-se so I my view we should expect it to be very unlike cash and yes it does open the door to making cash restricted for very small payments and thus having a massive control over people.

My self-question is, up to what point a successful launch of a digital Euro, versus a Digital Yuan and a Digital USD may increase the attractive of these currencies and thus could impact the exchange rate beyond the usual interest rates / inflation / import-export components of the demand for currencies.

This has Dusk Network written all over it. Confidential permissionless transactions, privacy smart contract, 2 different transaction models and regulatory compliance. I am hoping that they will get a change to prove themselves after mainnet.

Days of the physical cash is numbered but let's hope that the system replacin it isn't going to be huge surveillance program

Febo

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on May 01, 2021, 03:02:36 AM

The difference is that for Bitcoin there can pretty easily be made so there's no correlation between your actual name/person and (some of) your wallets.
On the other hand, although you will not know how much digital EURO I own, the government will surely know.

This is much easier to say then to do. When i buy a TV seller know my address where o sell it. When I buy a car seller know who I am since he make a contract and give me keys. There are some things you can trade anonymously but most you cant.

Government is last I am worried to know my personal information. They know it right now already and I have no problem with that as long as they keep them safe. I am afraid that corporations or bad guys get a hold of those information about me.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: mindrust on May 01, 2021, 08:52:25 AM

If they are not going to make it decentralized which they won't as you guessed, why bother? They bother because they don't want the physical notes.

It's more than that.
Unlike the data from private companies VISA or MasterCard, or payment processors, which they have to ask and may not come so easy, unlike private banks where locking your money may take a while (papers getting sent, approved, operations done only in banking days), their own electronic money solves all this: full control over all the information and tracking, full control for locking or confiscating the coins they want whenever they want.
Shortly: full surveillance and control, that's why they bother. And I expect to be cheaper to be used than credit cards, hence shops may even advertise/prefer this kind of payment.
And yes, I also expect it will allow reversal or payments; being centralized it may not even need a blockchain.

mindrust

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Quote from: aoluain on May 01, 2021, 03:44:51 AM

Anything government issued will enable them to track the movement of that thing

Bitcoin is not issued by any government (so they say at least) and yet they still track it. Like I said above, the dollar and the euro are already digital. If they are not going to make it decentralized which they won't as you guessed, why bother? They bother because they don't want the physical notes.

aoluain

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on May 01, 2021, 03:02:36 AM

Quote from: Febo on April 30, 2021, 01:44:55 PM

Quote from: 20kevin20 on April 29, 2021, 01:31:45 PM

There's definitely more privacy with BTC than there'll be with CBDCs.

LOL what? Bitcoin have public ledger. Anyone. Totally anyone can look at all your trades. Not a police or judge or but every single criminal in the world. CBDCs will have opaque ledger and only central authority will be able to check transaction. Those that those authorities will sell your info and those that will hack them and steal this info.

The difference is that for Bitcoin there can pretty easily be made so there's no correlation between your actual name/person and (some of) your wallets.
On the other hand, although you will not know how much digital EURO I own, the government will surely know.
I'll say that neither is optimal, but at least for Bitcoin you always have the choice of a mixer Wink

Like Chipmixer! nice one NeuroticFish.

Anything government issued will enable them to track the movement of that thing
be it electronic FIAT transactions or digital FIAT transactions. Bitcoin is more difficult and there are options open to us to
disguise our transactions.

Digital Euro being controlled by the governments will also be able to restrict the use
of it, the same as they do with FIAT. Block cards, close buildings and shut down ATM's.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: Febo on April 30, 2021, 01:44:55 PM

Quote from: 20kevin20 on April 29, 2021, 01:31:45 PM

There's definitely more privacy with BTC than there'll be with CBDCs.

LOL what? Bitcoin have public ledger. Anyone. Totally anyone can look at all your trades. Not a police or judge or but every single criminal in the world. CBDCs will have opaque ledger and only central authority will be able to check transaction. Those that those authorities will sell your info and those that will hack them and steal this info.

The difference is that for Bitcoin there can pretty easily be made so there's no correlation between your actual name/person and (some of) your wallets.
On the other hand, although you will not know how much digital EURO I own, the government will surely know.
I'll say that neither is optimal, but at least for Bitcoin you always have the choice of a mixer Wink

Febo

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Quote from: 20kevin20 on April 29, 2021, 01:31:45 PM

There's definitely more privacy with BTC than there'll be with CBDCs.

LOL what? Bitcoin have public ledger. Anyone. Totally anyone can look at all your trades. Not a police or judge or but every single criminal in the world. CBDCs will have opaque ledger and only central authority will be able to check transaction. Those that those authorities will sell your info and those that will hack them and steal this info.

Address that you have in your profile shows 72 transactions. I saw this just by using blockchain explorer. No fancy chainanalysis tool that are being build right now to serve everyone. Blochain analysis will soon be multi billion industry that will employ brightest minds in crypto.

jaberwock

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Quote from: paxmao on April 29, 2021, 05:34:33 AM

My self-question is, up to what point a successful launch of a digital Euro, versus a Digital Yuan and a Digital USD may increase the attractive of these currencies and thus could impact the exchange rate beyond the usual interest rates / inflation / import-export components of the demand for currencies.

Lol I don’t think there are that many people who are ready to adopt this digital currencies that the government are planning to develop. And moreover there are still many people who likes making use of cash, I always have a need for both cash and electronic payment methods. So that’s why I don’t see them both as a competition, because I always see the need for making use of the both of them.

Instead of looking for digital currencies to create , I believe there are other pressing needs that the government should be giving their attention to and not to creating digital and cryptocurrencies. When they have fixed things that are more important we can then talk about these ones.

Similificator

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The difficulty level of attaining this is quite huge and I personally do not think that any government would allow let alone create something like this had there been no back plans in ridding people off of privacy that they very much want. This is probably just a tactic in making something similar to cryptocurrencies to fool people into switching so that the government along with the banks can gain or have even more control over funds of every citizen.

BrewMaster

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There is trouble abrewing

digital fiats issued by the governments and banks aren't something that concerns us because they aren't even creating them for the people. usually these things are created for some geopolitical power struggles. for example China is trying to make its own digital Yuan so that it can take over the world in currency too while kicking US dollar out by replacing it for good in the long term.

(o)(o)ilikeboobs(o)(o)

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The cryptocurrency of EURO will be issued by the central bank of EURO. It may still be blockchain-based, but in a centralized chain and banks can control transactions at their discretion. And of course, their source code will be confidential.
I don't think the government's cryptocurrency will be as decentralized and transparent as the current projects on the market.

danherbias07

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Will there be a voting intended for the people before they make the such changes? I don't think so. Even if they don't like the idea.
If someone serves the bill and they pass it then the people won't even have any choice but to follow it.
As I read thru the article 8000 participants do have good recommendation but it's all just for the ease of people. How about the ease for the government?

This might be difficult to implement and may give birth to new problems especially in the rural regions who are inclined to use fiat.
Perhaps they'll just go back into bartering their goods. Cheesy

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: iamsheikhadil on April 30, 2021, 03:13:12 AM

I don't think such digital euros are even necessary, they can create a coin and give them the name of Euro but if it doesn't provide us with privileges of anonymity and freedom, I doubt anyone would use it. They have to combat crimes, not we, it's their burden, because of exceptions, they can't make rules for everyone and make it norm!

A stable coin pegged to EURO, provided by an entity much more trusted than Tether can ever be, accepted and probably advertised by most shops.. I doubt that there will be many who will not use it in some years.
It has a good chance to become something more widely used, accepted and probably cheaper(!) than Visa or MasterCard, which are also far from anonymous.

SacriFries11

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Quote from: sensimilia on April 30, 2021, 02:29:55 AM

Im not sure that it will be more private than standart EURO. Its not profitable for govs to implement privacy coins as primary payment method

I think it's hard to fully implement digital EURO, government would rather control the circulation of money and the transparency that they needed in order to provide trust to their people. I think it's alternative EURO, a digital that make the people transact easily but need to control by the government. One thing that people's concern is that it can use illegally. It's good to know that there are a lot of countries making their own digital money. There is a city here in my country that planning to launch their stable coin it's called C-PESO.

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