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Topic: How and When Fiat Will End - page 2. (Read 2613 times)

sr. member
Activity: 616
Merit: 250
May 31, 2014, 02:11:15 AM
#23
Absolutely correct and succinctly stated.

However I am not convinced about the hyper-inflation argument, rather I think fiat will hyper deflate relative to BTC and
perhaps a few other alt coins.  This is what will drive the masses in crypto-currencies and the blockchain voluntarily.  

It is brilliant social engineering mechanism, greed and fear, push and pull.  I think, speculating, that it is possible that
BTC is the enginnering tool intended to make people lose confidence in the USD.  This will be done by driving BTC to
10k or over next couple of years, ie sometime in 2016.  That is why, IMO, the USDA is buying submachine guns
http://reason.com/blog/2014/05/16/why-the-hell-is-the-department-of-agricu as well as the fed arming
every single agency to the teeth and DHS buying millions of rounds of hollow point bullets etc.


 This person named cryptos is full of it.

 Yea Mr. Bankster (cryptos) - Best flee to Israel fast so they don't drag you off too prison like Maddoff. Israel will never give u up to extradition back to here where your sure to be Maddoff's bitch in prison.

 But realize this Zionist takeover of the United States of Israel has completely failed. Soon we're kicking you banksters all to prison, and the rest of your evil kind to prison as well. You should have not messed with us. Now it's our turn.

 O, and while you spout off such nonsense and chat with yourself here;

 This nonsense about: dollars "hyper deflate relative to BTC"

 How exactly does that work?
Never before has any fiat currency hyper deflated in history.

...

 In other words I can't figure out any endgame that would be reasonable reasonable: "hyper deflate relative to BTC".  

 How would that be even remotely possible?

 Who re-capitalizes all the banks that depositors that are counting on for 9+ trillion in deposits?
 Who continues to pay for S.S. and Medicare/Medicaid and the VA added up to over ten trillion over the next decade alone?
 Who continues to run banking while all the banksters flee for their very lives while knowing their soon going to prison? Their employees.
 Who could keep running the government if suddenly it didn't have the money to run itself due to this "hyper deflate relative to BTC".  

 Hyper deflate the dollar versus BTC?

 They can't afford to do such a thing?

 It would bust every bank that is in far too much in debt  leveraged to the hilt all over again, not to mention crush ever debtor since suddenly a car and home would cost much less and no one could ever be paid much again due to  "hyper deflate relative to BTC".

 Much less the world could no longer afford any food exports from the USOI.


 Give it a rest.

 The Dollar and the Petrodollar is dying.

 The FED is soon dead.

 The Zionist Occupied USA is dying too. And for a short while, enjoy your freedom, then it's next to Maddoff for all of you criminals, while we claw back all the stolen loot.

 A person named cryptos is full of shit and spreading nothing but bankster bullshit. Best get in that plane and flee to Israel before those conservative FBI agents counting on their pensions and retiree's health care coverage drag you off to prison while your crying and screaming for your mommy!

cryptos:
 "It is brilliant social engineering mechanism, greed and fear, push and pull.  I think, speculating, that it is possible that
BTC is the enginnering tool intended to make people lose confidence in the USD".

 
 Do what? O, your simple minded. Never mind.


 The Fed's evil debt-based Fiat currency named Federal Reserve Notes (dollars) is soon dead, dead, dead. And so is the FED. Hey, at least the wonderful but foolish Dr. Ron Paul gets almost everything correct. After all, no one is perfect, not even Dr. Paul. But at least he seems real, unlike this phony piece of shit called of all things cryptos. What? Your so dimwitted you couldn't even think of a decent screen name?
O wait, simple minded. Pardon me son.

 As for the USDA buying assult weapons: Well what do you think an out of control government does with a blank checkbook and a complicit FED that loans them all the monies they request by issuing ever more bonds?

 All this talk of "tapering" from the FED is pure jawboning. Wait, you don't likely understand that term. Okay, it's bullshit. As in misdirection. Smoke and mirrors. In other words during the last several months the USA Inc. hasn't needed to borrow as much as before due to minor cuts in spending across the board. So the USA didn't need to borrow as much. So the FED which is the borrower of last resort since no one else besides other central banks are seriously stupid enough to purchase US Govt Bonds didn't need to loan the USA as much, hence the term taper and all it's nonsense. There is no tapering. Rates are not rising. They can't allow interest rates to rise or it will swiftly crush the dollar and the governments ability to even pay the interest, let alone it's other expenses.

 The dollar is dying. So is the Yen, The Euro, the Yuan, CAD, AUD, and even the CHF (Swiss franc) isn't in good shape anymore. The entire 1st world is in a gigantic debt bubble. And here this clown spins it like it's a Bitcoin conspericy against the dollar. Bullshit. They destroyed themselves and their currencies. Then Bitcoin came along thanks to Satoshi and is helping some flee to it's safety. Period. End of story.

 Bitcoin is a safe haven. It's Digital Gold 2.0  - there is no social engineering. Only government shills and banksters, plus clowns spreading bullshit and nonsense. Your one of them.

 As a lust once said: Your either with us, or your on the wrong side of history and about to be washed out with the ever rising tide of shit that those like yourself caused.

 



Bitcoin is The Future.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
May 31, 2014, 01:53:41 AM
#22
Re: How and When Fiat Will End
====================
Short version:
----------------
Bitcoin is Pure Genius.

Bitcoin is Monetary Freedom.

This post I mostly agree with.  However the bitcoin protocol is not anonymous nor was it ever intended to be, as to "Monetary Freedom" that is debatable.  Will be used as a global asset tracking tool.  Read what the IMF intends to do and protocol will enable that.  Will also allow switch to consumption tax.

As to your 2nd post...You sound like a FUD spreading banker or Bitcoin dreamer.  "Bitcoin is freedom" that is the propaganda bankers and the state want us to believe as everyone gets sucked into the blockchain.  All anonymity will be gone once paper currency is eliminated.  

That is not to say DRK, Monero, X11 or whatever comes after is not true Monetary Freedom, but Bitcoin protocol as currently exists is not.  It will enable financial slavery as you will have no anonymity or privacy in your affairs.

Look at progression of events.  Snowden sent on mission to tell US citizens and world they have no social privacy.  "Mission accomplished," his words.  Next target? Financial privacy.  
"New Massive Federal Database to Hold Financial Information on Hundreds of Millions of Americans"
http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2014/05/30/new-massive-federal-database-to-hold-financial-information-on-hundreds-of-millions-of-americans/

States are not about to relinquish power, they are going to seize more via existing blockchain.  Yes it will bring about good things, no question and the future looks bright after get through "The United States of SWAT" http://www.nationalreview.com/article/376053/united-states-swat-john-fund .  

But don't deceive yourself or others about real intent.  Bitcoin is not Jesus.  It is a tax, asset tracking and forfeiture tool in its current form that will eliminate any and all financial privacy.  Linking ID to your wallets is coming.  

2 Billion Jobs to Disappear by 2030
http://www.futuristspeaker.com/2012/02/2-billion-jobs-to-disappear-by-2030/
Bill Gates: People Don't Realize How Many Jobs Will Soon Be Replaced By Software Bots
http://www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-bots-are-taking-away-jobs-2014-3
Report Suggests Nearly Half of U.S. Jobs Are Vulnerable to Computerization
http://www.technologyreview.com/view/519241/report-suggests-nearly-half-of-us-jobs-are-vulnerable-to-computerization/
University of Oxford study: 50% of jobs could disappear in next 20 years
http://laptopmillionaire.tv/blog/university-of-oxford-study-50-of-jobs-could-disappear-in-next-20-years/?utm_source=rss
Half Of All Jobs Today Will Disappear By 2030
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/09/25/predictions-workplace/

sr. member
Activity: 616
Merit: 250
May 31, 2014, 01:10:07 AM
#21
How exactly will they "crush" bit coin? The genie is all ready out of the bottle. One country might make it really difficult to use it but there is no way to eradicate it.

I think BTC is a bait and switch.  Get everyone into "e-money" as Milton Friedman called it in 1999 and at some point, possibly,
Satoshi will release his coins to flood the market or will be done some other way.  Perhaps "BTC enables terrorism and child porn" so
use our new coin, I don't know how this will be done.  However I do not think TPTB will let mircea popescu become a trillionaire.

So at some point they will take control and drive this in exactly the direction they intended all along.  Andreas
has spoken about this also.  Everyone will have to make a choice, their way or go own way ie DRK, XC, MRO or whatever, which will
likely be illegal to use or accepted for goods and services by that point IMO.  

BTC is fiat and this as been argued well by Anonymint in his thread: Coinbase + Bitpay is enough to make Bitcoin a fiat
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-adoption-slowing-coinbase-bitpay-is-enough-to-make-bitcoin-a-fiat-557732

There may be a limit of 21million BTC today, but with all these interchangeable alt coins, some of which you can
exchange directly with USD like LTC, Doge, PPC, NMC and FTC , there really is no limit to number of coins.  It is an ever
inflating pool that dilutes BTC and USD constantly as flows into these other alt coins.  

"the same way copper dilutes and inflate gold"
You can exchange your gold for copper or use your copper to exchange for gold. As opposed to only being able to use or possess gold so yes exactly.

There is very interesting paper from Kenneth Rogoff recently, described here:
"Rogoff Examines the Upsides of a Currency-Free Economy"
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/05/21/rogoff-examines-the-upsides-of-a-currency-free-econom/

Unfortunately the pdf is no longer free to download.  The timing of this is very curious and given who wrote it, worth paying
attention to. He is essentially arguing for "a more proactive strategy for phasing out the use of paper currency."
Discussed here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/2014-05-29-financial-times-kenneth-rogoff-time-to-phase-out-paper-money-630538 and here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/2014-05-21-harvard-economics-professor-makes-the-case-for-bitcoin-619865

"DeathandTaxes" writes: "A digital currency known as the dollar already is the norm" the USD is still debt based and does not have
the blockchain.  

Bitcoin is Freedom.

Bitcoin is definitely not freedom.  The existing blockchain is another form of slavery, an open asset tracking and forfeiture tool, the true goal.  Marc Andreessen said just last month that within two years libertarians are going to hate bitcoin...once they realize what it really is.

States need to replace debt based fiat system with something else and blockchain the most visible and viable candidate.
By 2030 half of the population will be unemployed due to automation.  Runaway medical costs, long term debt and liabilities of 200 trillion according to Laurence Kotlikoff http://usawatchdog.com/america-in-worse-fiscal-shape-than-detroit-professor-laurence-kotlikoff/, trillions of derivatives, the list goes on and on.

It is pretty clear in my mind where this is all going and why.

This whole process could take until 2030~2040, so existing fiat debt based currency and monetary system not going anywhere any time soon...though Jim Rickards recently said this could all happen faster than any of us think...

 Okay Mr. Bankster or who ever you are we understand your threatened and your career is going the same route as Travel Agents had their own careers go when the internet revolutionized the travel agency business. Get over it. Move on. And don't take other peoples word on anything. Always verify. Your taking some at face value without facts in evidence. Others you discount without even reflection on the facts in evidence.

 As for your comment:

  "Bitcoin is definitely not freedom.  The existing blockchain is another form of slavery, an open asset tracking and forfeiture tool, the true goal."

 ...what nonsense. WHAT HOGWASH. The blockchain is a public ledger. And a semi anonymous one that can easily be made much more anonymous through various means. As for Bitcoin being Slavery...what silly nonsense.

 As for Libertarians, their already proven to be jack-asses that demand others carry their water while their parasitical tendencies represent and reflect how other wealthy elite and banksters view the rest of us 'little people'. Screw them. Libertarians are just as flawed as democrats and republicans. Or should I say liberals and conservatives. Hell real conservatives are a dying/dead breed. Very few true conservatives are even still breathing. Neo-cons phonies wiped them out, along with the phony liberals and phony libertarians. Swine that cares to mix politics or religion, or anything else, into a monetary topic are to be frowned upon.

 Ron Paul - "deregulation and privatization are the only solutions" after the 2008 election. He finally took off his mask. I dropped him right then and there for the fool he surely is. It doesn't matter if he does get everything else correct (he mostly seem to get everything else correct) he failed on those two most important points and proved right there he is merely yet another billionaire fascist wet-dream for them, and not for anyone else but other elites like himself. Dr. Paul is merely the consummate politician telling people exactly what they want to hear. Yet then just as always right on cue he rolls over like a cowardly little puppy and endorses who for president at the last moment. All these that think they know Dr. Paul? They don't. Just like they didn't know who the real Tea Party was or who hijacked it (The Koche brothers as in Billionaires). Those are the fascists in love with Dr. Paul. But not any libertarian worthy of being called a decent person. As for Dr. Pauls son: well sometimes the apple does fall far from the tree...

 
 Monetary topics are to rise or fall on their own merit. Fact is states and countries will always fail at fiat issues. Always have, always will. If 0ne doesn't understand why then one hasn't done their research, at all, in the least bit.

Next:

 No one termed Satoshi Nakamoto would dare do anything to destroy the very value that he/she/they created by selling/dumping far too much bitcoin onto the marketplace at any point in time, not ever. In fact I would suggest quite the opposite if anything. But certainly not destroy the genius work of their own skills and labor. Why would any sane person destroy their own savings by liquidating it too quickly to merely crash it's value? That's insane. Only if Bitcoin grew so corrupt that it is no longer representing what Satoshi intended would any rational actor ever even consider such a thing. And merely more mining centralization and more mainstream adoption and commercializing was the exact thing Satoshi had to know would eventually occur. It's just mind boggling how some come on here and state such ill founded fear based drivel and nonsense.

 Smart people act rationally. Your suggesting the diabolic opposite. Wrong. It doesn't matter if it's a black op nsa effort that is Satoshi either. The end results are what matters. No more debt, and decentralization of command and control so that money as we know it finally becomes a strong store of value, and not an ever inflated away weak store of value. That scares some. It should. Because they too finally will have to much better behave to attract capital investments.

 As for you Mr. Bankster, or whatever it is you are, your comment on Bitcoin not being Freedom. That's so over the top and such nonsense it makes me laugh and laugh. Yet wonder how dumb, gullible, naive, and foolish are people like you?

 No, I don't belong to any political party. Never have. Never will. I am also far older and more stupid, yet much wiser than most here.

 To listen to what you just wrote just makes me laugh...

 But yes, the parasites in American Health Care that love to bankrupt widows and orphans must be held to full account. After all it's the worst health care in the 1st world today. In fact we rank just below Cuba when it comes to our health care today, which of course the US health care we do receive is also the most expensive in the world, and by huge margins. And what? Your answer is to give the States ever more power and control over money too? Are you serious? Are you even thinking? Or just spouting off without a second thought?

 No, deregulating the financial industry didn't work. It failed. check.
Privatizing the top 300+ non-profit hositals in the USA failed. check.

 I can give a very long list of failures when it comes to deregulation and privatization for that matter. Just look at your electric bill or gas bill for starters. Get over it. All of you. You are being conned. Played. Suckered. Bamboozled. The very same ones that trusted in Mt.Gox with much of their savings are very likely the same ones being conned about much more.

 But at least this Bankster or whatever, at least he reads. Hey, that's a great start. But don't take fear, fear, fear as fact. We have nothing to fear. All these fear based articles are usually nonsense. Sure the monetary world is a train wreak. Okay. It crashes. We fix it. We go forward. It's not all going up in smoke. We don't "collapse" and never come back. It's not the end of the world. But we may all be poorer for it. There are no boogy men. No terrorists. Your odds are far higher of being hit by lightening than ever being scratched by a terrorist. It's all nonsense. Sensationalism.

 Fact: Doctors and Nurses plus Pharmacuticals are the number one cause of death in America today. Same for much of the world. They make far too many mistakes and errors. And the drugs peddled kill huge numbers, and harm millions more every year. Between 200,000 to 600,000 or more each year die because of this group. Toss in governments who launch horrible acts of war that mainly kills and harms innocent people and here you come with what? And dare to say what? I will rip you to no end...

 By 2030 half of the population will NOT be unemployed. Another nonsense statement that some internet legend concocted in their own mind so it must be truth. WRONG. That wont occur. Can't. If it did then the rest will surely have to support those unemployed. Already almost half are unemployed or grossly underemployed today. And 20% of all households supposedly have no one with any job at all. Those are alarming facts. Things are not good. But they will eventually be solved long before 2030. Things wont stay together if things drag out much longer. States and regions will demand the breakup of this country if things stay so out of control. People will eventually demand better. But so far most are brainwashed and too dim to understand facts from fictions.

 Robots and automation to replace humans: bullshit. Pure hogwash. Yes, computers and the internet greatly increased efficiencies for all of us. Net result: Millions of jobs lost. And millions of new jobs created.

 Today we need Trillions spent in public works and in our decaying infrastructure. Like it or not that will get done in the next 20 years, and like it or not we will spend ten's of trillions doing that. And tens of millions will be employed doing such tasks. All these fear fear fear articles are bullshit. Same for those that come here and repeat this crap non stop.

The Debts will and must be restructured and/or written off. Solutions will be had. Or revolutions will be the result. The USA government is digging in. But their troops will not obey orders against their own peoples, their families, relatives, friends and neighbors. In fact it will end up being the military that brings about the arrest and prosecution of the legislative branch if they don't swiftly fall into better favor with most. That much is painfully apparent.

 The criminals in the banks and on wall street, plus in the board rooms and elsewhere will be brought to justice sooner, or later. The statute of limitations for felony fraud isn't kind, at all. Their ill gotten gains are ours (the public's). These same types think their superior. Some think their our masters. I assure you their not my superior nor my master, although they may be your employer.

 As for all the problems you see and foresee due to someone else bringing them to your attention: Yes, No. Maybe. You appear to live a cowards life. One of fear and emotion. STop it already. Have no fear. Refuse to be bullied or cower. Yell at me if it makes you feel any better but realize that many predict many terrible things going forward throughout the history of mankind. Yet it only keeps getting better and better every 50 to 100 years throughout time. And the end of time never arrives either. For thousands of years many have said and claimed it's "the end days". It's all nonsense instead.

 Either a person is good and decent, or their rotten and no good. No in between. No grey area. Pure genius invented Bitcoin for many wonderful reasons. Here we have someone else come along and say what? Your nuts!


Bitcoin is Freedom.
Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 616
Merit: 250
May 31, 2014, 12:34:34 AM
#20
Re: How and When Fiat Will End
====================

Short version:
----------------

Sadly it wont end until fiat is ruined again, and again at the very least. And not for at least several decades from today if things continue as they are presently. So 20 to 80 years from today is the answer. Best guess 55 years. But governments wont surrender to them without trying to keep competing with their own fiat issues. Much less they need time to work out fiat-currency-debt restructuring and forgiveness.

 In short: Debt-Free Decentralized Monetary cryptocurrencies and what they offer future generations over the longest terms are nothing short of revolutionary on a scale never before seen in mankind's history.

 This Decentralized Cryptocurrency Revolution is far bigger than the entire Internet. It's bigger than modern electricity in what it will do for every person's prosperity on this earth over their life span's going forward, especially the younger generations alive today. It's that huge, that sustaining, that far reaching. That ever lasting.

 Decentralization wont be confined to merely monetary issues. Instead a general decentralization of many things will ensue going forward. That will greatly defuse far too much centralized command and control and make the world much better off in return.

 Centuries from now, with all those gains compounded and thus added together people will be able to look back and see in wonderment how far they arrived at that point in time in the distant future, where ever in the universe they are, if only they never forget their own ancestors history and their many mistakes.

 Debt-based-fiat currency is evil. It must be outlawed forever as soon as governments finally understand this. Why? This year the USA alone will spend half a Trillion dollars on just their interest payments and that's at record, all time low interest rates.

 So when I say how huge the improvement over debt-based-fiat any debt-free currency is I am not in the least big exaggerating. It's all an enormous improvement.

 Then toss in Decentralization of Secure Cryptocurrency and suddenly the corruptions and temptations of too much centralized command and control is fully neutralized and held permanently in check if brought forward and maintained properly. All thanks to the real 'best & brightest'.

 Lastly add in generalized decentralization of many other things that lean themselves much better off with decentralization rather than with too much centralized command and control and then suddenly we have a much better new world to hand off to the future.

 There is no better gift than that for future generations. This gives them all the tools they need to build much better lives than we all ever had going back several decades from today. The world is a mess today, but soon it will get much better one way or another.

 The future is going to be awe inspiring in 35 to 70 years and most of those under 40 years of age today will still be alive to enjoy it.


Bitcoin is Pure Genius.

Bitcoin is Monetary Freedom.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
May 30, 2014, 11:08:24 PM
#19
Absolutely correct and succinctly stated.

However I am not convinced about the hyper-inflation argument, rather I think fiat will hyper deflate relative to BTC and
perhaps a few other alt coins.  This is what will drive the masses in crypto-currencies and the blockchain voluntarily. 

It is brilliant social engineering mechanism, greed and fear, push and pull.  I think, speculating, that it is possible that
BTC is the enginnering tool intended to make people lose confidence in the USD.  This will be done by driving BTC to
10k or over next couple of years, ie sometime in 2016.  That is why, IMO, the USDA is buying submachine guns
http://reason.com/blog/2014/05/16/why-the-hell-is-the-department-of-agricu as well as the fed arming
every single agency to the teeth and DHS buying millions of rounds of hollow point bullets etc.
legendary
Activity: 1455
Merit: 1033
Nothing like healthy scepticism and hard evidence
May 30, 2014, 11:04:31 PM
#18
Per definition, as a standard of value, bitcoin will always have to be measured taking in account the goods it can buy.

If fiat ever ends in a hyper-inflation, we would measure the value of bitcoin in gold, oil and all other things we could buy with bitcoin: more or less, everything, in a situation like that.

But those timing predictions are just numbers tossed out.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
May 30, 2014, 10:55:15 PM
#17
How exactly will they "crush" bit coin? The genie is all ready out of the bottle. One country might make it really difficult to use it but there is no way to eradicate it.

I think BTC is a bait and switch.  Get everyone into "e-money" as Milton Friedman called it in 1999 and at some point, possibly,
Satoshi will release his coins to flood the market or will be done some other way.  Perhaps "BTC enables terrorism and child porn" so
use our new coin, I don't know how this will be done.  However I do not think TPTB will let mircea popescu become a trillionaire.

So at some point they will take control and drive this in exactly the direction they intended all along.  Andreas
has spoken about this also.  Everyone will have to make a choice, their way or go own way ie DRK, XC, MRO or whatever, which will
likely be illegal to use or accepted for goods and services by that point IMO.  

BTC is fiat and this as been argued well by Anonymint in his thread: Coinbase + Bitpay is enough to make Bitcoin a fiat
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-adoption-slowing-coinbase-bitpay-is-enough-to-make-bitcoin-a-fiat-557732

There may be a limit of 21million BTC today, but with all these interchangeable alt coins, some of which you can
exchange directly with USD like LTC, Doge, PPC, NMC and FTC , there really is no limit to number of coins.  It is an ever
inflating pool that dilutes BTC and USD constantly as flows into these other alt coins.  

"the same way copper dilutes and inflate gold"
You can exchange your gold for copper or use your copper to exchange for gold. As opposed to only being able to use or possess gold so yes exactly.

There is very interesting paper from Kenneth Rogoff recently, described here:
"Rogoff Examines the Upsides of a Currency-Free Economy"
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/05/21/rogoff-examines-the-upsides-of-a-currency-free-econom/

Unfortunately the pdf is no longer free to download.  The timing of this is very curious and given who wrote it, worth paying
attention to. He is essentially arguing for "a more proactive strategy for phasing out the use of paper currency."
Discussed here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/2014-05-29-financial-times-kenneth-rogoff-time-to-phase-out-paper-money-630538 and here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/2014-05-21-harvard-economics-professor-makes-the-case-for-bitcoin-619865

"DeathandTaxes" writes: "A digital currency known as the dollar already is the norm" the USD is still debt based and does not have
the blockchain.  

Bitcoin is Freedom.

Bitcoin is definitely not freedom.  The existing blockchain is another form of slavery, an open asset tracking and forfeiture tool, the true goal.  Marc Andreessen said just last month that within two years libertarians are going to hate bitcoin...once they realize what it really is.

States need to replace debt based fiat system with something else and blockchain the most visible and viable candidate.
By 2030 half of the population will be unemployed due to automation.  Runaway medical costs, long term debt and liabilities of 200 trillion according to Laurence Kotlikoff http://usawatchdog.com/america-in-worse-fiscal-shape-than-detroit-professor-laurence-kotlikoff/, trillions of derivatives, the list goes on and on.

It is pretty clear in my mind where this is all going and why.

This whole process could take until 2030~2040, so existing fiat debt based currency and monetary system not going anywhere any time soon...though Jim Rickards recently said this could all happen faster than any of us think...

sr. member
Activity: 616
Merit: 250
May 30, 2014, 09:35:31 PM
#16
To clarify things:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_currency

  "Fiat money is money which derives its value from government regulation or law. It differs from commodity money, which is based on a good, often a precious metal such gold or silver, which has uses other than as a medium of exchange. The term derives from the Latin fiat ("let it be done", "it shall be").[1]

The first use of fiat money has been recorded in China around 1000 CE. Since then, it has been used intermittently by various countries, concurrently with commodity currencies."

and

 "Fiat money has been defined variously as:

    Any money declared by a government to be legal tender.[2]
    State-issued money which is neither convertible by law to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.[3]
    Intrinsically valueless money used as money because of government decree.[4]

While gold- or silver-backed representative money entails the legal requirement that the bank of issue redeem it in fixed weights of gold or silver, fiat money's value is unrelated to the value of any physical quantity. Even a coin containing valuable metal may be considered fiat currency if its face value is defined by law as different from its market value as metal.[5]"


My 0.0000 0002 Dorian's:
================
 In any estimation these are good definitions of fiat and the meaning of the Latin term fiat ("let it be done", "it shall be").

 Although Bitcoin has some of the qualities as fiat it isn't the adopted currency of any government today. Sure it may become that some day, but not likely any time in the foreseeable future. I will let another reply of mine touch on that thought.

 Bitcoin isn't exactly fiat in the sense any of us ever thought of fiat before. Bitcoin re-defines what money can be. It crossed borders of what is money and what is a commodity.

Bitcoin is Freedom.
 

sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
May 30, 2014, 07:30:18 PM
#15
The end of fiat?  Bitcoin will cause this?  I always find this type thread and the views expressed quite funny, because Bitcoin is fiat money.  Its not based on real reserves or intrinsic physical commodity, its value is derived from confidence in law (albeit maths) and supply/demand.  That fits the definition of fiat money.
This is not true, fiat can be produced without limit, bitcoins has limit.

A paper currency system contains the seeds of its own destruction. The temptation for the monopolist money producer to increase the money supply is almost irresistible. In such a system with a constantly increasing money supply and, as a consequence, constantly increasing prices, it does not make much sense to save in cash to purchase assets later. A better strategy, given this senario, is to go into debt to purchase assets and pay back the debts later with a devalued currency. Moreover, it makes sense to purchase assets that can later be pledged as collateral to obtain further bank loans. A paper money system leads to excessive debt.

Exactly. You cannot trust people to regulate it.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
May 30, 2014, 07:20:11 PM
#14
BTC is being constantly diluted and inflated via alt coins.  



the same way copper dilutes and inflate gold

The end of fiat?  Bitcoin will cause this?  I always find this type thread and the views expressed quite funny, because Bitcoin is fiat money.  Its not based on real reserves or intrinsic physical commodity, its value is derived from confidence in law (albeit maths) and supply/demand.  That fits the definition of fiat money.
This is not true, fiat can be produced without limit, bitcoins has limit.

Firstly, that is not a key defining attribute of fiat money, and secondly Bitcoin only has a limit artificially imposed by those that regulate it.  Exactly as any national fiat currency is limited by the government/laws/regulation (which is the essence of fiat money).  At some point in the future, however unlikely it may seem today, Bitcoin base may be extended.   Need a new word or term.

not without a majority vote, which will never happen
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
May 30, 2014, 07:03:06 PM
#13
fiat will end when it hyper inflates and people are forced to use alternatives like ammo, gas, gold, silver, bread, or bitcoin
sr. member
Activity: 245
Merit: 250
May 30, 2014, 05:33:15 PM
#12
The end of fiat?  Bitcoin will cause this?  I always find this type thread and the views expressed quite funny, because Bitcoin is fiat money.  Its not based on real reserves or intrinsic physical commodity, its value is derived from confidence in law (albeit maths) and supply/demand.  That fits the definition of fiat money.
This is not true, fiat can be produced without limit, bitcoins has limit.

Firstly, that is not a key defining attribute of fiat money, and secondly Bitcoin only has a limit artificially imposed by those that regulate it.  Exactly as any national fiat currency is limited by the government/laws/regulation (which is the essence of fiat money).  At some point in the future, however unlikely it may seem today, Bitcoin base may be extended.   Need a new word or term.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
May 30, 2014, 04:49:48 PM
#11
The end of fiat?  Bitcoin will cause this?  I always find this type thread and the views expressed quite funny, because Bitcoin is fiat money.  Its not based on real reserves or intrinsic physical commodity, its value is derived from confidence in law (albeit maths) and supply/demand.  That fits the definition of fiat money.
This is not true, fiat can be produced without limit, bitcoins has limit.

A paper currency system contains the seeds of its own destruction. The temptation for the monopolist money producer to increase the money supply is almost irresistible. In such a system with a constantly increasing money supply and, as a consequence, constantly increasing prices, it does not make much sense to save in cash to purchase assets later. A better strategy, given this senario, is to go into debt to purchase assets and pay back the debts later with a devalued currency. Moreover, it makes sense to purchase assets that can later be pledged as collateral to obtain further bank loans. A paper money system leads to excessive debt.
sr. member
Activity: 245
Merit: 250
May 30, 2014, 04:43:53 PM
#10
The end of fiat?  Bitcoin will cause this?  I always find this type thread and the views expressed quite funny, because Bitcoin is fiat money.  Its not based on real reserves or intrinsic physical commodity, its value is derived from confidence in law (albeit maths) and supply/demand.  That fits the definition of fiat money.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
May 30, 2014, 04:35:52 PM
#9
What I don't understand is why we are valuing, in 2016 if BTC crushes USD or world currency in general, BTC at the dollar value. At that point BTC would be valued at BTC, where 1 BTC = 1 BTC.

Also keeping this in mind, if BTC becomes the world's currency would the market cap not be 241tr (or closer to this than the latter) instead of 50tr? At that point, BTC would be (300k*241/50) roughly 1.446$m/BTC by your calculations. No?



This can be true at some point of the global economy, fiat is going to an end, there will be the time when it just plummets with so much debt and btc will be one of the mediums to save money.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1000
May 30, 2014, 02:19:50 PM
#8
Sounds pretty accurate and I think all intentional...Need an enemy to blame and BTC will be it.
You are probably right that bitcoin will be blamed when many people's savings are wiped out. That worries me as well. But what do you mean by "intentional"?

Probably ment planned the banksters so they can implyment a gobal currency and have complete control over it.  IMO they will try the pitch look what the gov did with your monetary system you need us to handle it..  People are really stupid and won't figure out they have been handling it since 1913.  Most people still think money is backed by gold..  it's quite pathetic.
member
Activity: 108
Merit: 10
May 30, 2014, 02:08:26 PM
#7
I learn more from your posts then I did in my college economics class  Wink
full member
Activity: 152
Merit: 100
May 30, 2014, 01:28:20 PM
#6
What I don't understand is why we are valuing, in 2016 if BTC crushes USD or world currency in general, BTC at the dollar value. At that point BTC would be valued at BTC, where 1 BTC = 1 BTC.

Also keeping this in mind, if BTC becomes the world's currency would the market cap not be 241tr (or closer to this than the latter) instead of 50tr? At that point, BTC would be (300k*241/50) roughly 1.446$m/BTC by your calculations. No?

sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
May 30, 2014, 11:52:10 AM
#5
Need excuse to end debt based fiat currency monetary system.  BTC designed to do exactly that.  

Intent is to end existing and bring in new.  Made abundantly clear by insider shill Jim Rickards in his latest book and tour.
Just have to listen to a lot of his interviews.  He is a proven shill for banker and insider establishment.  
http://www.hangthebankers.com/establishment-shill-jim-rickards-covers-for-the-bankers-911-insider-trading-crimes/

Basically means that when he speaks is speaking for establishment.

Also recent actions of US gov for example "Operation Choke Point”

Banks to payday lenders: Quit the business or we’ll close your account.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/banks-to-payday-lenders-quit-the-business-or-well-close-your-account/2014/04/11/afd34976-c0c6-11e3-bcec-b71ee10e9bc3_story.html

Could go on and on.  BTC is weapon that Jim Rickards warns about and calls "financial cyber terrorism"
However, in my view this is a ploy and distraction.  It is intentional to have a non-entity to blame.  

edit: He also says will be left with basket of crypto-currencies and I have no idea how long this will all take

All the pieces fit.  I do not think however, that BTC will survive, it will be crushed.  It is trojan horse to bring in real intent which is not clear to me as yet.  But blockchain asset tracking and forfeiture technology is here to stay.  That is true intent, that and negative interest rates, switching to a consumption tax, everything about blockchain is a governments dream world with NSA to monitor it.

"This means a price between 30'000 USD and 300'000 USD per bitcoin.
(3): This will probably occur at some point between October 2015 and September 2016."

Read your post too fast...this i do not think is accurate, rpietila is overly optimistic and extremely btc wealthy so take anything he says with a bucket of salt.  I think may get to 10k per btc in 2016, for end of 2014 and 2015 I have no idea nor do I care.  BTC is being constantly diluted and inflated via alt coins.  



How exactly will they "crush" bit coin? The genie is all ready out of the bottle. One country might make it really difficult to use it but there is no way to eradicate it.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
May 30, 2014, 09:21:18 AM
#4
Need excuse to end debt based fiat currency monetary system.  BTC designed to do exactly that.  

Intent is to end existing and bring in new.  Made abundantly clear by insider shill Jim Rickards in his latest book and tour.
Just have to listen to a lot of his interviews.  He is a proven shill for banker and insider establishment.  
http://www.hangthebankers.com/establishment-shill-jim-rickards-covers-for-the-bankers-911-insider-trading-crimes/

Basically means that when he speaks is speaking for establishment.

Also recent actions of US gov for example "Operation Choke Point”

Banks to payday lenders: Quit the business or we’ll close your account.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/banks-to-payday-lenders-quit-the-business-or-well-close-your-account/2014/04/11/afd34976-c0c6-11e3-bcec-b71ee10e9bc3_story.html

Could go on and on.  BTC is weapon that Jim Rickards warns about and calls "financial cyber terrorism"
However, in my view this is a ploy and distraction.  It is intentional to have a non-entity to blame.  

edit: He also says will be left with basket of crypto-currencies and I have no idea how long this will all take

All the pieces fit.  I do not think however, that BTC will survive, it will be crushed.  It is trojan horse to bring in real intent which is not clear to me as yet.  But blockchain asset tracking and forfeiture technology is here to stay.  That is true intent, that and negative interest rates, switching to a consumption tax, everything about blockchain is a governments dream world with NSA to monitor it.

"This means a price between 30'000 USD and 300'000 USD per bitcoin.
(3): This will probably occur at some point between October 2015 and September 2016."

Read your post too fast...this i do not think is accurate, rpietila is overly optimistic and extremely btc wealthy so take anything he says with a bucket of salt.  I think may get to 10k per btc in 2016, for end of 2014 and 2015 I have no idea nor do I care.  BTC is being constantly diluted and inflated via alt coins.  

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