How bitcoin inheritance can be achieved. - page 2.

palle11

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Quote from: Jet Cash on February 05, 2019, 02:26:01 PM

Why do you need an exchange? Just create a wallet, and leave the transactions in an address on the blockchain. You can then dump the wallet, as long as you keep the keys and other info to recreate it.

It is as simple as that. That is one of the easiest means and simple too. I would however add that securing passphrase and securities explicitly on a note book and also saving in email.

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

I do have two friends that are very computer literate. I'm writing code at the moment to do with a bitcoin related project and I keep sending snippits of it to one of them in order to see if they can help with its optimisation. They also used to do ethereum mining in the past.

I suppose I have less of a risk of being killed or robbed from by a friend than by a family member also.

Family can also inherit my physical items which friends can't so it makes it more reasonable for them to receive something...

jseverson

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Quote from: cellard on February 13, 2019, 11:18:51 PM

A middle ground is what one must search. I would drop anything that has to do with multisigs. Obviously I would also drop a wallet.dat or anything that requires to sync the blockchain. Electrum seems like the easiest way to go. Your only hope is to store the seed somewhere in a paper, wrapped in plastic, and with instructions in where to click on the Electrum GUI (which hopefully has not changed much by now). Also hopefully whoever is operating the wallet isn't victim of one of these phising scams... it's just hard to deal with this stuff if you aren't a bit of a geek, what can I tell you. Bitcoin is not for the computer illiterate. Maybe there is a business there in hiring people to do this for your family.

This is what I had in mind as well. You're not going to be able to use it where you're going anyway. Either way, it doesn't seem like there's a method that doesn't involve trusting the person you're leaving it to or some third party.

Also, if you don't trust the person enough to not steal from you while you're alive (or kill you, something which came up earlier lmao), maybe you shouldn't be leaving them anything at all.

cellard

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It's basically impossible in most cases. I think unless the people that is supposed to inherit is computer savvy, problems will arise. The irony is that if they don't have problems, your security is probably not good enough to stand the test of time, and if it's good enough, it may be too complicated for your family to recover it.

A middle ground is what one must search. I would drop anything that has to do with multisigs. Obviously I would also drop a wallet.dat or anything that requires to sync the blockchain. Electrum seems like the easiest way to go. Your only hope is to store the seed somewhere in a paper, wrapped in plastic, and with instructions in where to click on the Electrum GUI (which hopefully has not changed much by now). Also hopefully whoever is operating the wallet isn't victim of one of these phising scams... it's just hard to deal with this stuff if you aren't a bit of a geek, what can I tell you. Bitcoin is not for the computer illiterate. Maybe there is a business there in hiring people to do this for your family.

goaldigger

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Quote from: jackg on February 05, 2019, 02:17:23 PM

I've been thinking about inheritance and I've thought of a few options for this but I'm wondering if there's anything better:

1. (my favourite) make a transaction for a block approximately 10 years in the future from my current bitcoin address and sign it leaving the rawtx hash, a qr code and an address and private key in plain text that will be funded at that block height.
2. Send it to an exchange (OK not a great plan but not the worst either) custody of the funds on a ln exchange will be awarded to those who inherit the email account and other information...
3. Leave my computer as it is and see if people can work out what I've done (though it includes some fairly complex multisig that will turn it into a bit of a treasure hunt).
4. Buy physical bitcoin every so often and use that to store the coins instead but the mini private keys might not be too secure.

Anyone else got any ideas?

I guess you got a 20 bitcoin ready to inherit by your child. Your ideas are too secured and its good. Here in the country, we have an app than can store crypto. Since ive got an account there, ill just give the password to my children. I think thats enough for me to pass my earnings to them.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: jackg on February 07, 2019, 08:09:45 PM

Quote from: squatter on February 07, 2019, 05:06:08 PM

Of course, using a dead man's switch creates incentive for your inheritor to kill you, but so does executing a will. Wink

Well that went a bit dramatic. I don't think many family members would be up for killing me... I think thats a bit overdramatic for a family member to kill you for your bitcoin...

I should hope so. Cheesy

Just a joke, or maybe half-joking. After all, people have been known to do some unthinkable things when large sums of money are involved. That's why I never talk about my Bitcoin holdings to anyone except my wife. She's the only person who knows the details and can access the keys, and it took almost a decade together before reaching that level of trust...

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: squatter on February 07, 2019, 05:06:08 PM

Quote from: 1Referee on February 07, 2019, 07:35:14 AM

Quote from: elda34b on February 05, 2019, 10:53:28 PM

Make a multi-sig (2-3), one key for you, one key for your wife/husband, and one key for your child. If you died, your spouse and your child can move or use the funds. Not the best idea but it should work if you have a family and you can trust them.

I will take every satoshi I own down with me in case something happens to me out of nothing. I just can't think of a way that I will ever be satisfied enough to arrange something like that. I'm just too paranoid. I have been through enough to understand that there isn't a way to trust anyone that's close to you.

Using timelocked transactions doesn't require trust. That's why it's a superior model vs. any sort of multi-sig arrangement. The only problem -- besides needing to periodically re-spend the outputs backing the timelocked transaction -- is ensuring your inheritor is competent enough to secure their wallet and take possession of the coins when the time comes. But I suppose that's a problem with any Bitcoin inheritance scenario. It's about as good as it gets.

Of course, using a dead man's switch creates incentive for your inheritor to kill you, but so does executing a will. Wink

Well that went a bit dramatic. I don't think many family members would be up for killing me... I think thats a bit overdramatic for a family member to kill you for your bitcoin...

I could always make it so my funds go to a funeral parlor so I get the tomb I've always wanted Grin

(with easy access to get out but not in)...

The solicitors could kill you too if your bitcoin goes up really high. And any wills are subject to high amounts of tax unless its strategic...

aoluain

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Quote from: buwaytress on February 06, 2019, 11:29:51 AM

I've thought about this a while ago and wonder as well if there may be companies or businesses attempting to get into this line... but then when I think about the idea of trustless inheritance, it just seems too vulnerable to chance and circumstance (what if your plan is forgotten or people just don't understand how you did it).

I think until the use of smart contracts, private keys and multi-sigs are much more mainstream, still best to treat Bitcoin inheritance like you would a typical one. Leave it as part of your will, with someone to oversee its execution.

Personally, I've already made plans for my partner and family (who else should I trust, right?) to access my stuff should I crap out of this life. Instructions are pretty clear to me, but I do worry it's still not clear enough to them. Reminds me I really need to make sure they train on using Bitcoin maybe a week before my birthday every year.

I too have plans in place should I kick the bucket so to speak.
My Daughter and my Brother know how to access the private seed
to my wallet, its as simple as that, and if they forget or are not
clear on how to use them they can figure it out via the web.

all they need is the private seed and or passwords so I wouldnt worry
about them not being clear.

squatter

legendary

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: 1Referee on February 07, 2019, 07:35:14 AM

Quote from: elda34b on February 05, 2019, 10:53:28 PM

Make a multi-sig (2-3), one key for you, one key for your wife/husband, and one key for your child. If you died, your spouse and your child can move or use the funds. Not the best idea but it should work if you have a family and you can trust them.

I will take every satoshi I own down with me in case something happens to me out of nothing. I just can't think of a way that I will ever be satisfied enough to arrange something like that. I'm just too paranoid. I have been through enough to understand that there isn't a way to trust anyone that's close to you.

Using timelocked transactions doesn't require trust. That's why it's a superior model vs. any sort of multi-sig arrangement. The only problem -- besides needing to periodically re-spend the outputs backing the timelocked transaction -- is ensuring your inheritor is competent enough to secure their wallet and take possession of the coins when the time comes. But I suppose that's a problem with any Bitcoin inheritance scenario. It's about as good as it gets.

Of course, using a dead man's switch creates incentive for your inheritor to kill you, but so does executing a will. Wink

1Referee

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Quote from: elda34b on February 05, 2019, 10:53:28 PM

Make a multi-sig (2-3), one key for you, one key for your wife/husband, and one key for your child. If you died, your spouse and your child can move or use the funds. Not the best idea but it should work if you have a family and you can trust them.

I will take every satoshi I own down with me in case something happens to me out of nothing. I just can't think of a way that I will ever be satisfied enough to arrange something like that. I'm just too paranoid. I have been through enough to understand that there isn't a way to trust anyone that's close to you.

If I however see it coming, and there is some time left, I will try to distribute my holdings in a way that I consider to be fair for the people around me, and I'll make sure that a significant chunk of it goes towards one or more competent cancer reasearch organizations. If they accept Bitcoin, great, if not, ill have it be converted to fiat, but by that time, I'm pretty certain Bitcoin has taken over pretty much everything already.

squatz1

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Flying Hellfish is a Commie

Even in the presence of these sorts of things such as just leaving the password to my wallet, or my hardware wallet, or the keys to my address I don't think I'd trust any of my family members in attempting to actually be able to sell the bitcoin for their own benefit. As they'd have no clue what they're doing and most likely would send it to the wrong place, or just get scammed all together.

I'd without a doubt try to show family members how to use it, then establish all of this in paperwork with my estate lawyers so they know how to liquidate and how I'd like the funds handed off. You're going to really have to sit down and explain this though, as most people are still going to be confused with Bitcoin and how it works.

We can debate all day about all the complex things we'd do, with multisig and locking the coins up for 10 years. But I'd try to make it as easy as possible for my heirs to have ease of access to money that they may need right then.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: jackg on February 05, 2019, 02:17:23 PM

I've been thinking about inheritance and I've thought of a few options for this but I'm wondering if there's anything better:

1. (my favourite) make a transaction for a block approximately 10 years in the future from my current bitcoin address and sign it leaving the rawtx hash, a qr code and an address and private key in plain text that will be funded at that block height.

This is the only reliable model. The others leave too much to chance.

I would use nLockTime. First, I would help my inheritor safely set up a wallet and send a test transaction to verify control of the wallet. Then I would make a transaction that pays him/her in 6 months and reveal it them. Before the 6 months is up, I would spend the coins to a new address I control and restart the process with a new timelocked transaction. When you die, it'll eventually act as a dead man's switch.

I prefer something like 6 months because I wouldn't want my heirs having to wait 10 years to access the money.

Here's a more complex approach I came across that some people might think of as more robust.

Theb

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Quote from: jackg on February 06, 2019, 02:52:21 PM

I'm not sure of the trustworthiness of sicitors and have had a bad run with them in the past so I think that's a no go. I have friends that are into computer science, if bitcoin takes off the its likely they'll be able to decide the transactions and transfer the funds to the private key (hence the first option).

I have no wife or kids Grin

. Should probably make that clear now for those hypothesis my most likely causes of death are statistically shown to be neglegance or suicide (for people of my age category AFAIK).

I could still be hit by a car tomorrow though...

Then if that is the case, I think you can trust your friends to retrieve your Bitcoin with your preferred method. But how will your friends know that you have left them behind any Bitcoins when you die? Have you informed them already about your plan or is it related to your 3rd option where they need to figure it out on their own by looking at your computer?

Also just to point out last will and testaments are also applicable to your friends, you can specifically state that the Bitcoins will be passed on to your friends, and if you want some peace of mind you can always bring your friends as an official witness for your will, which will assure you that they already know that your BTC is meant for them if you die.

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

I'm not sure of the trustworthiness of sicitors and have had a bad run with them in the past so I think that's a no go. I have friends that are into computer science, if bitcoin takes off the its likely they'll be able to decide the transactions and transfer the funds to the private key (hence the first option).

I have no wife or kids Grin

. Should probably make that clear now for those hypothesis my most likely causes of death are statistically shown to be neglegance or suicide (for people of my age category AFAIK).

I could still be hit by a car tomorrow though...

Theb

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I think one of your best options would be having a last will and testament which an attorney will assist you. If you don't like the idea of writing down your private keys on a will, you can always be vague with him saying that you left a safety deposit box for your kin (you have a choice of not disclosing its contents) which of course will contain the private keys and the necessary instructions on how your family will retrieve your Bitcoin. At least in this way your lawyers are sworn in by law that they will help your kin after you die so there is a guarantee that your Bitcoin will be in the right hands.

buwaytress

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Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

I've thought about this a while ago and wonder as well if there may be companies or businesses attempting to get into this line... but then when I think about the idea of trustless inheritance, it just seems too vulnerable to chance and circumstance (what if your plan is forgotten or people just don't understand how you did it).

I think until the use of smart contracts, private keys and multi-sigs are much more mainstream, still best to treat Bitcoin inheritance like you would a typical one. Leave it as part of your will, with someone to oversee its execution.

Personally, I've already made plans for my partner and family (who else should I trust, right?) to access my stuff should I crap out of this life. Instructions are pretty clear to me, but I do worry it's still not clear enough to them. Reminds me I really need to make sure they train on using Bitcoin maybe a week before my birthday every year.

audaciousbeing

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Quote from: jackg on February 05, 2019, 02:17:23 PM

I've been thinking about inheritance and I've thought of a few options for this but I'm wondering if there's anything better:

1. (my favourite) make a transaction for a block approximately 10 years in the future from my current bitcoin address and sign it leaving the rawtx hash, a qr code and an address and private key in plain text that will be funded at that block height.
2. Send it to an exchange (OK not a great plan but not the worst either) custody of the funds on a ln exchange will be awarded to those who inherit the email account and other information...
3. Leave my computer as it is and see if people can work out what I've done (though it includes some fairly complex multisig that will turn it into a bit of a treasure hunt).
4. Buy physical bitcoin every so often and use that to store the coins instead but the mini private keys might not be too secure.

Anyone else got any ideas?

Going through all of the above is a stress especially the first option which to a noob in technology or crypto would not only be boring but equally too difficult. Instead of all this, why not make a video or a detailed not that would be kept in a safe place to be accessed on the occasion of death then make a will to that effect without any stress and you will be good. To me I see this option something so simple and would achieve the same objective the entire long and technical processes suggested would achieve without considering the inherent risk of some of the options above.

elda34b

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Make a multi-sig (2-3), one key for you, one key for your wife/husband, and one key for your child. If you died, your spouse and your child can move or use the funds. Not the best idea but it should work if you have a family and you can trust them.

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

The issue stems from having a fairly unguessable password.

One of the seeds is in my head only, two are on paper so it'll be difficult for anyone to get ahold of the money post-'me' .

Jet Cash

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https://JetCash.com

Why do you need an exchange? Just create a wallet, and leave the transactions in an address on the blockchain. You can then dump the wallet, as long as you keep the keys and other info to recreate it.

Topic: How bitcoin inheritance can be achieved. - page 2. (Read 554 times)