How Bitcoin was hijacked and centralized

FreeStreamer

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Quote from: coinfinger on July 24, 2020, 07:57:24 AM

Miners can merge, I don’t really see anything wrong with it. Even if they merge it still doesn’t stop the competition, there will still be that competition, because there are still other mining companies. Smaller companies of miners can decide to come together so that they will be able to get better rewards, it’s not bad. And moreover these days you can’t mine alone, it’s not like it used to be in the past when you can easily just buy a miner and stay at home and be mining with your computer, nah this time around you have to join a pool before you will be able to get rewards.

Even due to miners' consortium they may work together and may decide things like corporate but all will be possible until they face another competitor. I mean it is highly possible another big players to be joining bitcoin mining to compete against the current players. So, their unite will not work for them forever.

Miners merging causes centralization. When miners merge and form corporations, we are back in a centralized banking system and there is no new innovation going on there. Mind as well use Paypal or your web bank. They are probably also much faster than Bitcoin. A dynamic blocksize prevents miners from merging because they have no benefit from doing that.

coinfinger

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Miners can merge, I don’t really see anything wrong with it. Even if they merge it still doesn’t stop the competition, there will still be that competition, because there are still other mining companies. Smaller companies of miners can decide to come together so that they will be able to get better rewards, it’s not bad. And moreover these days you can’t mine alone, it’s not like it used to be in the past when you can easily just buy a miner and stay at home and be mining with your computer, nah this time around you have to join a pool before you will be able to get rewards.

Even due to miners' consortium they may work together and may decide things like corporate but all will be possible until they face another competitor. I mean it is highly possible another big players to be joining bitcoin mining to compete against the current players. So, their unite will not work for them forever.

FreeStreamer

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Quote from: Reid on July 22, 2020, 11:54:59 AM

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 22, 2020, 09:11:32 AM

What proof? Just use your brain. What do you think Blockstream is then? How do you think it has such a major influence on Bitcoin?

I am using my brain which is why I warned you.
I dont think there is a good reason to talk with you.
Something is eating you.
I dont know if it is hate or whatever it is but it aint good.

You need a breather man.
Whichever or whoever is feeding you this could be bad for your health. Grin

Oooh. I'm so afraid. Are you going to stone me to death with heavy chunks of Bitcoin? Comon answer the question mr Hero member Bitcoins expert using your mighty brain. What do you think Blockstream is?

oleg681010

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The government wants to control bitcoin, and I think that in the end they will be able to do it.

Reid

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Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 22, 2020, 09:11:32 AM

What proof? Just use your brain. What do you think Blockstream is then? How do you think it has such a major influence on Bitcoin?

I am using my brain which is why I warned you.
I dont think there is a good reason to talk with you.
Something is eating you.
I dont know if it is hate or whatever it is but it aint good.

You need a breather man.
Whichever or whoever is feeding you this could be bad for your health. Grin

FreeStreamer

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 15

Quote from: Reid on July 22, 2020, 08:18:44 AM

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 18, 2020, 09:26:33 AM

This is what happened in 2013-1014. Bitcoin has a design flaw (increasing blocksize) that makes it distribute mining rewards unfairly, so the miners started merging into mining unions to agree about sharing the rewards equally.

Proof please?
I can tell you the same thing but facts are difficult to get.
That is the difference.

Please do have something if you are trying to convince us.
I don't see that for now. Maybe someday?
I do agree about miners having a consensus but also have the same thread but been bashed by royalties of the forum.
So, I am just giving you a heads up.

What proof? Just use your brain. What do you think Blockstream is then? How do you think it has such a major influence on Bitcoin?

Reid

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Activity: 3052

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Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 18, 2020, 09:26:33 AM

This is what happened in 2013-1014. Bitcoin has a design flaw (increasing blocksize) that makes it distribute mining rewards unfairly, so the miners started merging into mining unions to agree about sharing the rewards equally.

Proof please?
I can tell you the same thing but facts are difficult to get.
That is the difference.

Please do have something if you are trying to convince us.
I don't see that for now. Maybe someday?
I do agree about miners having a consensus but also have the same thread but been bashed by royalties of the forum.
So, I am just giving you a heads up.

FreeStreamer

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Activity: 70

Merit: 15

Quote from: Etsu on July 20, 2020, 05:09:46 PM

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 18, 2020, 09:26:33 AM

This is what happened in 2013-1014. Bitcoin has a design flaw (increasing blocksize) that makes it distribute mining rewards unfairly, so the miners started merging into mining unions to agree about sharing the rewards equally. The largest merger was named Blockstream which pretty much controls all Bitcoins miners and developers.

Your opinion might be true but you should have back it up with facts, there are certain flows with the blockchain network but i don't think the main vision and concept of bitcoin is highjacked.... Miners teaming up to optimize their profits dosen't mean the entire bitcoin network isn't decentralized again... Almost everything still works fine and the network seems to be attracting more and more of people looking for financial freedom daily

Yes, the original vision is not hijacked. It lives on in Monero, where all these Bitcoins prototype design flaws are all fixed and improved. Dynamic blocksize eliminates the miners need to merge and stealth ledger and other improved privacy features conceal their identities and locations better.

Etsu

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Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 18, 2020, 09:26:33 AM

This is what happened in 2013-1014. Bitcoin has a design flaw (increasing blocksize) that makes it distribute mining rewards unfairly, so the miners started merging into mining unions to agree about sharing the rewards equally. The largest merger was named Blockstream which pretty much controls all Bitcoins miners and developers.

Your opinion might be true but you should have back it up with facts, there are certain flows with the blockchain network but i don't think the main vision and concept of bitcoin is highjacked.... Miners teaming up to optimize their profits dosen't mean the entire bitcoin network isn't decentralized again... Almost everything still works fine and the network seems to be attracting more and more of people looking for financial freedom daily

boyptc

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★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 18, 2020, 11:19:19 AM

Yeah well Paypal is still better faster and cheaper. I don't see why I need to buy Bitcoin just to buy something from Japan.

If that's what you think, I can't change that because it's what you think. You are literally saying with the few usage of bitcoin that I've given as an example. I've said that it just the few use of bitcoin.

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 18, 2020, 11:19:19 AM

A ponzi is something that relies only on new recruits to grow. Since when was Bitcoin backed by something else than new recruits?

Then miners won't be mining paying for electricity to maintain the network secured.

Btw for PayPal was said to venture in crypto.

btc_angela

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Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 19, 2020, 08:45:40 AM

Quote from: amishmanish on July 19, 2020, 07:42:40 AM

In the hall of shame of FUDsters, you are just a noob OP. These are old tactics. Blockstream is just one of the several such entities. Blockstream is the most common target because it has a lot of erstwhile Anti Big blockers and has been the most vocal in opposing Wu and Ver's propaganda. Samson Mow, Adam back etc constantly confront these people on twitter, including the BSV shills. When it comes to core developers, there are multiple other companies as well as independent developers that form what FUDsters love to refer as Core.

Haha yeah right. A noob would totally know these things. Sure it might climb in value. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying it's not a decentralized peer-to-peer digital cash as the whitepaper used to say. I think you're a noob if you don't know that Moneros dynamic blocksize actually prevents this whole merger of miner and hijack of the dev team. The exposed dev team is the most vulnerable part of any crypto project.

So what's your point? all of us leave bitcoin just because it's no longer a "decentralized peer-to-peer digital cash as the whitepaper say"? Or are you confusing newbies and beginners here with you argument and question bitcoin and shift to Monero?

amishmanish

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Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 19, 2020, 08:45:40 AM

Quote from: amishmanish on July 19, 2020, 07:42:40 AM

In the hall of shame of FUDsters, you are just a noob OP. These are old tactics. Blockstream is just one of the several such entities. Blockstream is the most common target because it has a lot of erstwhile Anti Big blockers and has been the most vocal in opposing Wu and Ver's propaganda. Samson Mow, Adam back etc constantly confront these people on twitter, including the BSV shills. When it comes to core developers, there are multiple other companies as well as independent developers that form what FUDsters love to refer as Core.

Haha yeah right. A noob would totally know these things. Sure it might climb in value. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying it's not a decentralized peer-to-peer digital cash as the whitepaper used to say. I think you're a noob if you don't know that Moneros dynamic blocksize actually prevents this whole merger of miner and hijack of the dev team. The exposed dev team is the most vulnerable part of any crypto project.

Okay so apart from being a bitcoin FUDster, you are here to promote Monero. Well, there is no need to have a beef then. Monero will always have its niche users. You don't need to pit them against each other. Bitcoin has gained considerable network effect, institutional interest and market stability. In comparison, Monero has enforced privacy by design. The fact that it obfuscates everything makes it a niche option.

Talking about "hijack of dev team" is just your opinion. The contributors and those sponsoring them are as diverse as they come. Bitcoin's development continues to show a high level of integrity sticking to the basics. Stick to monero if you want but it is no use trying to go against the honey badger of crypto.

Zionatin

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Errr.... What? Huh? I think you need to do a little more research there. To me centralized means I do not own it. The money in the bank you don't really own unlike crypto which is yours and yours alone. There is no central authority. You cannot control it. Buddy if there was a central authority then bitcoins price could be predicted and manipulated easily. It just isn't the case.
And yes many people use it. Go look at websites that you can work at or earn money from the payout in crypto. Even large companies are.

FreeStreamer

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Quote from: amishmanish on July 19, 2020, 07:42:40 AM

In the hall of shame of FUDsters, you are just a noob OP. These are old tactics. Blockstream is just one of the several such entities. Blockstream is the most common target because it has a lot of erstwhile Anti Big blockers and has been the most vocal in opposing Wu and Ver's propaganda. Samson Mow, Adam back etc constantly confront these people on twitter, including the BSV shills. When it comes to core developers, there are multiple other companies as well as independent developers that form what FUDsters love to refer as Core.

Haha yeah right. A noob would totally know these things. Sure it might climb in value. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying it's not a decentralized peer-to-peer digital cash as the whitepaper used to say. I think you're a noob if you don't know that Moneros dynamic blocksize actually prevents this whole merger of miner and hijack of the dev team. The exposed dev team is the most vulnerable part of any crypto project.

amishmanish

legendary

Activity: 1904

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In the hall of shame of FUDsters, you are just a noob OP. These are old tactics. Blockstream is just one of the several such entities. Blockstream is the most common target because it has a lot of erstwhile Anti Big blockers and has been the most vocal in opposing Wu and Ver's propaganda. Samson Mow, Adam back etc constantly confront these people on twitter, including the BSV shills. When it comes to core developers, there are multiple other companies as well as independent developers that form what FUDsters love to refer as Core.

djcaoile1205

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Centralization of bitcoin begins after big populization of asics. Since them, a lot of hash power under China jurisdiction

UmerIdrees

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Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 18, 2020, 03:13:47 PM

Quote from: Coin_Wow on July 18, 2020, 02:56:19 PM

Quote from: FreeStreamer on July 18, 2020, 11:19:19 AM

Yeah well Paypal is still better faster and cheaper. I don't see why I need to buy Bitcoin just to buy something from Japan. A ponzi is something that relies only on new recruits to grow. Since when was Bitcoin backed by something else than new recruits?

Paypal has burned way too many people, with frozen accounts, etc, for you to win that one.

A ponzi is something that relies only on new recruits to grow, and BTC has that in common, to some extent. However, gold is not a Ponzi and someone has to buy the newly mined gold or prices will eventually crash.

Sure, Paypal sucks. It was an intentionally ridiculous example. We need to learn from these Bitcoins design flaws which are increasing blocks size and the transparent ledger. These two features lead to the centralization of Bitcoin. For example Monero has a dynamic block size which eliminates the need for miners to merge as unions and the stealth ledger that prevents identifying user, node or miner.

I don't like pay pal because it is not being used in my country and there is one feature to reverse a transactions which most people don't recommend. Bitcoin is far better than paypal. Things like double spending's in bitcoin etc are practically impossible to happen.

royalfestus

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I am trying to get the contrast of the blockstream mining and the decentralized nature of bitcoin. The mining process from equal profiting does not look longterm, the coin needed more miners around the world which more purpose than profit but security to the space. Adam back wont ever desire the technology to go back to that and I think the wise miners should be holding on to enough coin to take care of their lives.

Bttzed03

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https://bitcoincleanup.com/

Quote from: stompix on July 18, 2020, 10:25:51 AM

~
Is the usual stuff, people make outrageous claims but when they are asked for proofs you have to find it yourself as it's beyond their "duty" to inform you of that as well. He's not the first and he will not be the last, he strats with 1% of truth and ends up with a claim of bitcoin being a ponzi because a company that sells insurance in France is giving money to a group of people. Grin

Oh, and no, OP is not part of the bsh bch groups, he is having his own dream of "proof of bandwidth" in the P&D section but he's yet to understand that even his own project can turn into a monopoly without regulation. The same story, everyone who was late to the party has a solution to fix something that is not broken with something broken from the start.

Indeed, it's not the first post criticizing Bitcoin that I've seen here. They just come in to post crap without anything to back it up then fade away which kinda sucks because it would have been a good opportunity for a good discussion and learning (for them most especially).

I didn't realize it's another attempt to promote a "Bitcoin killer" like what the BCH/BSV ~~cult~~ group have been trying for years now. I should have checked OP's post history first

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 18, 2020, 04:05:35 PM

Very dinky post by OP.

I assume this is a bot programmed to gather everyone's favourite clapped out old squit and group it together for our reading enjoyment. We have however read it many, many, many, many times before.

OP is just shilling for their hypothetical mesh network altcoin by attacking Bitcoin and other coins. It's quite lame to do so instead of actually providing a better alternative and watching it win through a fair competition, but it's the way of all lazy people. It's just like CWS or Roger Ver who spend way more time shitting on Bitcoin rather then developing their own coin. Just ignore the troll.

Topic: How Bitcoin was hijacked and centralized (Read 552 times)