How Bitcoin will smash Donald Trump's Mexican remittance wall

Spendulus

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Quote from: alyssa85 on April 14, 2016, 04:07:38 PM

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/how-bitcoin-will-smash-donald-trumps-mexican-remittance-wall-1554717

Quote

Last week, presidential candidate Donald Trump revealed his plan for funding the wall that he wants to build on the border between Mexico and the southern United States. How would he generate the billions of dollars to construct it? He has a simple plan: block the flow of remittance funds from United States to Mexico. Cutting off that resource would compel the Mexican government into agreeing to pay for the the wall, which has a reported cost of $10 – 12 billion dollars.

Trump's plan is woefully ignorant of what remittance is, how it works, and why it is so important. Millions of Mexicans living in the United States work and save their money so they can send it to their families who still live in Mexico. This is called remittance and it is estimated that over $24 billion dollars per year flows from the US to Mexico.

In a spirited blog post to accompany its latest poster campaign, eco-friendly Bitcoin mining company Genesis Mining imagined what would happen if Trump succeeds in getting his plan approved and Mexicans in the US could no longer send money home to support their families. Companies like Western Union, MoneyGram, and Xoom are all forced to comply with these laws since they are strictly regulated. What would the average worker do to make sure they can still support their family?

"The solution would be Bitcoin because Bitcoin can't be stopped. Not by Trump. Not by Putin. Not by anyone. Sure, you can pass regulations to make it more difficult to use but at the end of the day, if people need it, they will always find a way," said Marco Streng, CEO, Genesis Mining.

26B a year in remittances USA to Mexico in 2014. Assume Trump puts a 3% fee on these, that is 780M per year. A 7B wall would be paid off in 10 years at this rate. A 3% fee would not discourage remittances, because it would legitimize them. Note that a fee which was too high would discourage remittances, in which case they would seek alternative black market means of getting around it (including bitcoin).

Fees which are too high result in lower total collections, hence are counter productive.

There is no problem whatsoever with Trump's idea of using fees to finance the wall.

OROBTC

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I stand by my opinions mentioned earlier. If both governments do not OK the idea of BTC remittances, I do not see a massive BTC Infrastructure that could be built soon (and that Mexican migrants would use). That goes for both the US side (BTC ATMs, exchange shops, etc.) as well on the Mexican side (banks taking it, non-governmental interference).

localbitcoins? I have a hard time using it myself (probably too few interested in my city, and there ARE immigrants here).

Mexico allowing it? I don't really have a good opinion to offer, but my guess would be no way, too much seignoriage to be made off making the local currency).

BADecker

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Quote from: countryfree on August 02, 2016, 06:38:39 PM

Who needs BTC? Trump's plan won't work even without BTC. There are many businesses in the US trading with Mexican businesses, and then there are millions of Mexicans living in the US who carry a US passport. Remittances are only a very little part of the money flowing above the US/Mexican border, and you can't stop them without hurting everything.

Also, from a legal point of view, depriving an individual from the right to do what he wants with his money, will be difficult. Mexicans (hey, they're not all illegal) would easily find lawyers to protect their rights.

Not only that but, when you file a claim,
at a Federal or United States District Court,
against any man or woman who harms you,
be they government employees/officials or not,
and be you a "citizen" of the U.S. or not,
it is you against that man or woman.

If you do it without being the client of an attorney,
and don't use the attorney except as co-counsel,
(for directions on what paperwork to file),
the court is a court of record between you and the man or woman who harmed you.

The judge in a court of record is simply a magistrate,
one who keeps general order in the court, and,
who witnesses the proceeding as a witness.
He is not a judge unless you ask him to be.
The jury is the judge, if there is one.
If you have a strong case, the verdict of the jury can't be appealed.
A new case needs to be filed by anyone wanting to appeal.

What this all means is that anyone who feels he has been harmed by anyone else, be they a government official or not, can face that person in court. When "legals" or "illegals" wake up to this fact, Trump's plans will wither on the vine, along with those of the IRS or anyone else. Google and Yutube search on "Karl Lentz common law."

Cool

countryfree

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Who needs BTC? Trump's plan won't work even without BTC. There are many businesses in the US trading with Mexican businesses, and then there are millions of Mexicans living in the US who carry a US passport. Remittances are only a very little part of the money flowing above the US/Mexican border, and you can't stop them without hurting everything.

Also, from a legal point of view, depriving an individual from the right to do what he wants with his money, will be difficult. Mexicans (hey, they're not all illegal) would easily find lawyers to protect their rights.

bill gator

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I highly doubt Donald Trump even knows the word "Bitcoin", so honestly it's not a bad idea. You can't penalize people for sending money to their family, that's idiotic. There's already fees forced on these people that they can't afford as it is, but indeed bitcoin would make their remittance a hell of a lot easier, cheaper too.

Kakmakr

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It might stop the remittance wall, but it will lead to Crypto currency bans within the USA borders, which will not be a good thing for Bitcoin. You will find resistance from governments on both sides, if Bitcoin or any other currency for that matter, tries to bypass US or Mexican policies.

If Bitcoin are forced to go underground, merchants will have to adhere to the law and stop accepting Crypto currencies and the whole Bitcoin network will suffer. People will also face jail time, if they use LocalBitcoin to convert dollars to BTC. We do not want that to happen, because most of the activity in Bitcoin are centered around North America.

The Mexican government will also try to protect their own fiat currency, and will not allow Bitcoin to become the national currency. < Why? Because they can manipulate it and not Bitcoin >

SFR10

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Indeed this is a great opportunity to come as solution to those who will be affected (if ever Trump's plan come to success). The increase in demand, would surely help to increase the value as well, since the supply rate would be cut in half in few months. Regardless of the whole Trump thing, a big salute to Genesis mining for those awareness campaigns that they've been doing since couple of months ago.

Yakamoto

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Quote from: DimensionZ on April 14, 2016, 04:54:28 PM

Quote from: OROBTC on April 14, 2016, 04:39:13 PM

...

I see two problems holding back immigrants sending money to Mexico with BTC.

1) They have to buy the BTC here in the USA. Many do not have bank accounts, maybe most do not have computers (etc.). Availability of Bitcoin looks to be a problem.

2) As mentioned above, how do the Mexican recipients change their BTC to pesos?

The first point is actually very easy. They get paid usually cash in hand if they work in construction, restaurants etc. and then they can find a seller on Localbitcoins which is very popular in the USA and then get a Bitcoin wallet on their cellphone to receive the coins. Or maybe ask an American friend to sell them some via an exchange there are a lot of ways to acquire coins. But now for point 2 it's a tricky situation. The power of Bitcoin is in its community. If there are enough Mexican Bitcoin users willing to trade the remittances could be exchanged back to pesos. If not then they must install more ATMs or launch a local exchange that will facilitate this.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Bitcoin start to grow in popularity in Bitcoin, but again we haven't seen Trump's stance on Bitcoin and so we have no idea what he might do with it, assuming he is elected.

To be fair, Trump just wants immigrants to come in legally. He's only against illegals, and not Hispanics or Mexicans as a whole. This is often misinterpreted. If the workers come in legally, they don't have to worry, and won't need Bitcoin to get past his wall. They can just use the same method they have already. Only illegal immigrants would have to use Bitcoin, this would mean Bitcoin would be used for an illegal activity.

I'm not saying I support Trump (can't vote for him anyways), but you have to look at the facts instead of just basing an opinion on what you heard on CNN the night before.

Slowturtleinc

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I hardly venture into reddit due to forgetting its there and navigating it but will check this out for sure.
Its good to see these people at least heading in the right direction and not being potentially raped so bad on the fees.
But like you say the pawnshop owners can set the cost of doing business higher.

alyssa85

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Quote from: Slowturtleinc on April 14, 2016, 05:25:20 PM

But then you are saying they are meeting up person to person to transact and that I find harder to believe. Still see Filipinos lined up at Moneymart which cashes cheques and sends western union transfers. I do not doubt people use it their but I do not think they are sending the same amounts as they send Western Union.

The Philippines remittances through bitcoin arn't yet as big as western union, and that's because converting it to pesos at the other end depends on the pawn shops who charge the recipient the same as they would if they received money from western union (with the pawn shop pocketing the difference/saving). See the following article written by someone who worked at rebit.ph:

https://medium.com/@Cryptonight/bitcoin-doesn-t-make-remittances-cheaper-eb5f437849fe

Here's a quote from the article explaining the problem:

Quote

Rebit worked with on-the-ground kiosks that accepted hard cash from migrant workers overseas, and then paid out in hard cash to their beneficiaries in the Philippines. Bitcoin was used invisibly behind the scenes to settle the debt between the kiosk (in Hong Kong, Korea, Canada, etc) and the Rebit offices in the Philippines.

On the face of it, it sounds like a robust settlement process, because the blockchain-powered transfer of funds between the two companies is free, and confirmed within 10 minutes. But because we were mimicking the traditional remittance process so closely, we were also mimicking its costs.
The First and Last Miles Are Where All the Costs Are

There are obviously big expenses involved in operating the kiosk on the sending side: customer acquisition costs, physical costs, and big hairy issues like licensing and compliance.

The pawnshops are the last mile, and no one, not even the banks, are close to touching their aggregate dominance. As such, they can charge whatever they want for their services, and the oligopolistic nature of the industry ensures that there is very little difference in price between one provider and another.

As a prime example, to send the equivalent of $10 (about a day’s minimum wage in the Philippines) from one city to another, all the pawnshop networks charge 6-7%. When a Bitcoin company, acting on the behest of its sending customer, wants to transfer $10 from one city to another, it needs to pay that same fee.

There is a lot more, it's an interesting read about the logistics of remittances.

Slowturtleinc

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But then you are saying they are meeting up person to person to transact and that I find harder to believe. Still see Filipinos lined up at Moneymart which cashes cheques and sends western union transfers. I do not doubt people use it their but I do not think they are sending the same amounts as they send Western Union. Recall reading that western union does a wack load of transfers for Filipinos to send home and help support families. If bitcoin was biting into that in any way it would have Western Union spreading a more aggressive campaign. Have to disagree with you on this one,have a family 2 houses down with about 12 in the house and I know they have no idea of bitcoin because I mentioned it. They where in the process of losing the house because they where sending so much back home,it was quite sad but the church saved them from a dire spot.
Might be wrong and you could be correct as well,just speaking from what I know and I am not Filipino. Cheesy

alyssa85

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Quote from: Slowturtleinc on April 14, 2016, 05:01:15 PM

So you would have to put a bunch of bitcoin atms around the bordertowns so that these people could send. Not every one lives in the cities though so not sure how much bitcoin would help. Its like the Nannies sending money home to the Philippines they rather stand in line at western union counters than use bitcoin.

There are plenty of people sending money to the Philippines using BTC - it's just that they are invisible because they don't stand in the street in line!

See the following thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4d46ya/how_does_one_send_remittance_to_the_philippines/

coin.ph sends to 30 bank accounts, plus 22,000 cash pick up locations (mainly pawn shops) plus 450 ATMs.

rebit.ph converts to pesos, has it ready at the pawn shops and the recipient picks up the cash in pesos.

I imagine the Mexicans could easily set up a similar system

alyssa85

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Quote from: pawel7777 on April 14, 2016, 04:45:13 PM

Quote from: alyssa85 on April 14, 2016, 04:07:38 PM

...

If you want just share a link + quote without adding anything from yourself, I think 'Press' board is more

I just thought it was an interesting article and wanted to share and break up the interminable threads that are 50 pages long discussing "do you think the halving will change anything" and "what will make bitcoin popular".

As for leaving a comment, it seemed self-explanatory - there is a potential massive gain for BTC from Trump's confiscation of remittances plan that will knock the Cyprus thing in a cocked hat.

Slowturtleinc

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So you would have to put a bunch of bitcoin atms around the bordertowns so that these people could send. Not every one lives in the cities though so not sure how much bitcoin would help. Its like the Nannies sending money home to the Philippines they rather stand in line at western union counters than use bitcoin.
Have to remember we take a lot of things for granted and these people sending money home do not need glitches and hang ups that could potentially see money go missing.
Unless the internet becomes more wide spread you will not see any of these third world countries flocking to bitcoin. They need to be able to turn it into local currency as well,so receiving it is only half the battle.

alyssa85

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Quote from: OROBTC on April 14, 2016, 04:39:13 PM

...

I see two problems holding back immigrants sending money to Mexico with BTC.

1) They have to buy the BTC here in the USA. Many do not have bank accounts, maybe most do not have computers (etc.). Availability of Bitcoin looks to be a problem.

2) As mentioned above, how do the Mexican recipients change their BTC to pesos?

Most of them get paid in cash - they have smart phones and computers. They can use local bitcoins to buy their BTC (paying in cash), or ATMS. and in Mexico can either use local bitcoins or ATMs to change the BTC into pesos. After all the Argentinians (who are poorer than Mexicans) managed to deal in BTC when they had currency controls...

DimensionZ

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Quote from: OROBTC on April 14, 2016, 04:39:13 PM

...

I see two problems holding back immigrants sending money to Mexico with BTC.

1) They have to buy the BTC here in the USA. Many do not have bank accounts, maybe most do not have computers (etc.). Availability of Bitcoin looks to be a problem.

2) As mentioned above, how do the Mexican recipients change their BTC to pesos?

The first point is actually very easy. They get paid usually cash in hand if they work in construction, restaurants etc. and then they can find a seller on Localbitcoins which is very popular in the USA and then get a Bitcoin wallet on their cellphone to receive the coins. Or maybe ask an American friend to sell them some via an exchange there are a lot of ways to acquire coins. But now for point 2 it's a tricky situation. The power of Bitcoin is in its community. If there are enough Mexican Bitcoin users willing to trade the remittances could be exchanged back to pesos. If not then they must install more ATMs or launch a local exchange that will facilitate this.

pawel7777

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Quote from: alyssa85 on April 14, 2016, 04:07:38 PM

...

If you want just share a link + quote without adding anything from yourself, I think 'Press' board is more suitable.

Anyhow:

Quote from: OROBTC on April 14, 2016, 04:39:13 PM

...
2) As mentioned above, how do the Mexican recipients change their BTC to pesos?

The size of US-Mexico remittance is so huge, that if BTC was the only option to do it, you'd have exchanges on every corner, with the government's blessing.

OROBTC

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I see two problems holding back immigrants sending money to Mexico with BTC.

1) They have to buy the BTC here in the USA. Many do not have bank accounts, maybe most do not have computers (etc.). Availability of Bitcoin looks to be a problem.

2) As mentioned above, how do the Mexican recipients change their BTC to pesos?

freshman777

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Go Trump, I mean, Bitcoin. Both!

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Quote from: alyssa85 on April 14, 2016, 04:07:38 PM

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/how-bitcoin-will-smash-donald-trumps-mexican-remittance-wall-1554717

Quote

Last week, presidential candidate Donald Trump revealed his plan for funding the wall that he wants to build on the border between Mexico and the southern United States. How would he generate the billions of dollars to construct it? He has a simple plan: block the flow of remittance funds from United States to Mexico. Cutting off that resource would compel the Mexican government into agreeing to pay for the the wall, which has a reported cost of $10 – 12 billion dollars.

Trump's plan is woefully ignorant of what remittance is, how it works, and why it is so important. Millions of Mexicans living in the United States work and save their money so they can send it to their families who still live in Mexico. This is called remittance and it is estimated that over $24 billion dollars per year flows from the US to Mexico.

In a spirited blog post to accompany its latest poster campaign, eco-friendly Bitcoin mining company Genesis Mining imagined what would happen if Trump succeeds in getting his plan approved and Mexicans in the US could no longer send money home to support their families. Companies like Western Union, MoneyGram, and Xoom are all forced to comply with these laws since they are strictly regulated. What would the average worker do to make sure they can still support their family?

"The solution would be Bitcoin because Bitcoin can't be stopped. Not by Trump. Not by Putin. Not by anyone. Sure, you can pass regulations to make it more difficult to use but at the end of the day, if people need it, they will always find a way," said Marco Streng, CEO, Genesis Mining.

So true this article is. Bitcoin can break down so many barriers and make payment easier around the globe. It is ridiculous that a Mexican living in America and works hard to make money has to pay $50.00 back to their family in Mexico. It is time that Bitcoin relieve this planet of stupid money methods that will be looked upon as Pre-Cambrian.

Topic: How Bitcoin will smash Donald Trump's Mexican remittance wall (Read 1145 times)