But you don't give a dam...
You just have to write it down somewhere and remember where it is!
Don't tell me it's too complicated xD
Topic: How can we expect "average Joe" to remember passphrases to his Bitcoins? - page 4. (Read 4117 times)
May 02, 2017, 09:20:28 AM
May 02, 2017, 09:13:11 AM
I think as biometric security becomes better and more common place it will have a part in solving this problem. I do think the OP brings up a good point, though. It doesn't take much to scare the 'average joe' off.
May 02, 2017, 07:48:05 AM
Some of the options:
Method 1:
Have the seed saved in a safe: on 3 different mediums: paper, usb, cd.
Method 2:
Use password manager with Yubikey and 20+ char random password
Store it there
Method 3:
Have the seed words split in 3.
Part1 Part2 Part3. Find 3 trusted relatives or whoever, and at first one store: Part1, Part2, at the second one: Part2, Part3, at the third party: Part1 Part3.
Method4
Store it on airgaped machine.
Whatever happens to one of those parties, remaining two can be used to reconstruct the seed, and no single person can do it themselves.
Method 1:
Have the seed saved in a safe: on 3 different mediums: paper, usb, cd.
Method 2:
Use password manager with Yubikey and 20+ char random password
Store it there
Method 3:
Have the seed words split in 3.
Part1 Part2 Part3. Find 3 trusted relatives or whoever, and at first one store: Part1, Part2, at the second one: Part2, Part3, at the third party: Part1 Part3.
Method4
Store it on airgaped machine.
Whatever happens to one of those parties, remaining two can be used to reconstruct the seed, and no single person can do it themselves.
May 02, 2017, 05:11:04 AM
No one has said that using new technologies is always easy and efortless. But to some extent you have to adjust yourself and also have some basic knowledge, if not some advanced and specific ones. Nothing will just fall of the sky so average Joe also needs to learn how to note the passphrase if he can't memorize it.
i agree with this, there has to be basic knowledge of password, passphrase creation and storage.
I can understand if someone is messy or disorganised that the systems which should normally be put in place
are not or left until another time, this creates problems.
you could actually have a specific system for creating passwords for everything you do online,
email, banking etc. which are all related or on a specific theme like your favorite actress or actor for example.
[obviously not using the same format for everything!!!]
there are simple solutions to password creation etc. to help YOU remember.
Discipline is the first step!
May 02, 2017, 04:36:29 AM
Passphrase is created to be backed up and not to memorize or remember it, we should be write those passphrase into a clean sheet of paper and keep it into the safest place that we know so we don't need to bother our self in remembering the passphrase of our wallet and to be easily recover our funds when our wallet password is lost.
May 02, 2017, 04:32:03 AM
No one has said that using new technologies is always easy and efortless. But to some extent you have to adjust yourself and also have some basic knowledge, if not some advanced and specific ones. Nothing will just fall of the sky so average Joe also needs to learn how to note the passphrase if he can't memorize it.
May 02, 2017, 04:21:56 AM
Passphrase is not designed to remember it is designed for us to put it on the safest place that we know so when we forgot our password in our bitcoin wallet then it will be easy for us to recover our funds. I think you don't need to remember or memorize the passphrase, all you need is to put a copy on a clean sheet of paper and keep it so you will not be bother in memorizing it.
May 02, 2017, 03:24:44 AM
when you go and use a new system then you also have to adapt yourself to the new situation. it won't happen easily. it is like when the first car came out and people switched from using horse and carriage to vehicle, "how can you expect 'average Joe' to remember where he put the handle to his car to start it in the morning?"
May 02, 2017, 03:19:39 AM
For full blown acceptance of bitcoin more user friendly methods for storing and safekeeping bitcoins are needed..
Stuff like hardware wallets a great step in this direction, but in the end there will always be a backup required though.
Stuff like hardware wallets a great step in this direction, but in the end there will always be a backup required though.
May 02, 2017, 01:52:40 AM
I guess we can't expect everyone in the world understands how bitcoin works, how to import private keys, how to create transaction before bitcoin becomes successful.
This is why we still need online wallets, such as Coinbase, Xapo etc, which have password/passphrase recovery feature.
This is why we still need online wallets, such as Coinbase, Xapo etc, which have password/passphrase recovery feature.
May 02, 2017, 01:46:11 AM
"average Joe" can at best be expected to pay a company that does what Xapo et all do- take away the need for knowledge and responsibility in exchange for convenience and a hefty fee.
Cryptocurrency in all its current incarnations is not built for "average joe". Either some unforeseen social or technological change will occur, or we will have "average Joe" money- fiat, traditional banking, credit cards and the like, and "elite joe" money- a more desirable medium or exchange and store of value that denotes a more privileged place in society the same way a college education, luxury items or property ownership does at present.
Because of the influence that technology and capitalism have in the world at present I truly believe that the ability to understand, use and properly manage cryptocurrency is likely to be a significant source of social division in our lifetime.
Cryptocurrency in all its current incarnations is not built for "average joe". Either some unforeseen social or technological change will occur, or we will have "average Joe" money- fiat, traditional banking, credit cards and the like, and "elite joe" money- a more desirable medium or exchange and store of value that denotes a more privileged place in society the same way a college education, luxury items or property ownership does at present.
Because of the influence that technology and capitalism have in the world at present I truly believe that the ability to understand, use and properly manage cryptocurrency is likely to be a significant source of social division in our lifetime.
May 02, 2017, 12:51:25 AM
simply don't make any password, just store your bitcoin offlien and you are done, i'm doing this since years and i'm fine
if you need password for your bitcoin in your computer that are online, put the wallet in another machine that is used only for bitcoin
or they could use bitcoin like they use their fiat money, through coinbase or other secure online wallet(xapo etc), if they can't take the patience to learn how to secure their coin with their wallet and everything
this is again not a bitcoin fault, but i know that this is another problem hinder bitcoin to take the next step for mass adoption, beacuse you can't compare losing a password for facebook with losing it with money(bitcoin)
and losing a password for your bank account can be retrieved easily, original poster is looking for decentralized way to restore your password, which is impossible you need to trust someone else, which si not decentralization anymore
if you need password for your bitcoin in your computer that are online, put the wallet in another machine that is used only for bitcoin
If they can't remember their password, AND don't have a seed or private keys, AND don't have a backup file prior to encryption then they probably don't deserve to use Bitcoin.
The simplest (but not greatest, due to obvious side effects) of all solutions would be simply to just not encrypt your wallet.
The simplest (but not greatest, due to obvious side effects) of all solutions would be simply to just not encrypt your wallet.
or they could use bitcoin like they use their fiat money, through coinbase or other secure online wallet(xapo etc), if they can't take the patience to learn how to secure their coin with their wallet and everything
How is this a 'problem' exclusive to bitcoin? If they forget their passwords or pins then they'll likely forget them from every other thing including cards and websites. Sometimes there's only so much you can do for people but if you can't be trusted to keep this sort of info safe and secure then you probably shouldn't be trusted to use the internet by yourself let alone use bitcoin.
this is again not a bitcoin fault, but i know that this is another problem hinder bitcoin to take the next step for mass adoption, beacuse you can't compare losing a password for facebook with losing it with money(bitcoin)
and losing a password for your bank account can be retrieved easily, original poster is looking for decentralized way to restore your password, which is impossible you need to trust someone else, which si not decentralization anymore
May 01, 2017, 11:37:35 PM
It's something which seems crucial to me for reaching mass adoption (in addition to scalabilty of course...).
Already on this forum there is a shitload of people losing their Bitcoins by forgetting passphrases, the private keys, the dat file etc...
So I would like to know what technological solutions could be proposed for this problem.
To make a comparison, a lot of people are forgetting their credit card code (even if it's only 4 digits...) or losing the card and the centralized solution to this is the bank providing new card/code.
Which decentralized solutions to this problems could you think of?
Already on this forum there is a shitload of people losing their Bitcoins by forgetting passphrases, the private keys, the dat file etc...
So I would like to know what technological solutions could be proposed for this problem.
To make a comparison, a lot of people are forgetting their credit card code (even if it's only 4 digits...) or losing the card and the centralized solution to this is the bank providing new card/code.
Which decentralized solutions to this problems could you think of?
Simple solution for average Joes..
Don't use bitcoin, if you can't remember password, passphrase, private keys or dat file.
Don't use c. card, if you can't remember pin.
Maybe in future we will get finger print, retina scan, face detection etc etc in the bitcoin tech.
I personally prefer just using what we have now. Really keeps the anonymity as opposed to having to tie something in directly with what you have.
May 01, 2017, 11:27:45 PM
It's something which seems crucial to me for reaching mass adoption (in addition to scalabilty of course...).
Already on this forum there is a shitload of people losing their Bitcoins by forgetting passphrases, the private keys, the dat file etc...
So I would like to know what technological solutions could be proposed for this problem.
To make a comparison, a lot of people are forgetting their credit card code (even if it's only 4 digits...) or losing the card and the centralized solution to this is the bank providing new card/code.
Which decentralized solutions to this problems could you think of?
You could just backup your files, if you use a smartphone and you want to save your selfies and music you backup your phone and you can do that with a few clicks, they could backup their wallets during that process and forget about losing their coins, but people are lazy and don’t want to even do that. Already on this forum there is a shitload of people losing their Bitcoins by forgetting passphrases, the private keys, the dat file etc...
So I would like to know what technological solutions could be proposed for this problem.
To make a comparison, a lot of people are forgetting their credit card code (even if it's only 4 digits...) or losing the card and the centralized solution to this is the bank providing new card/code.
Which decentralized solutions to this problems could you think of?
May 01, 2017, 05:21:17 PM
If they can't remember their password, AND don't have a seed or private keys, AND don't have a backup file prior to encryption then they probably don't deserve to use Bitcoin.
The simplest (but not greatest, due to obvious side effects) of all solutions would be simply to just not encrypt your wallet.
Even an average Joe won't be worse enough to forget password. If he can't then as suggested he doesn't deserve it, let him get fixed to the conventional system that gives him a much easier access than bitcoin. Because everything with bitcoin and cryptocurrencies were completely technology and internet based where even a small mistake can put you into big loss.The simplest (but not greatest, due to obvious side effects) of all solutions would be simply to just not encrypt your wallet.
Personally, I'd be expecting an average joe like this to be using some sort of online wallet that all he has to do is remember his username and password to be able to get into his bitcoin. I wouldn't understand why he'd need to just remember his private keys and such like this, if hes an average Joe and doesn't fully care if someone else has control over his keys (partially at least in the case of BitGo.
Back up the wallet and passphrase and make two copies and each stored in 2 different locations. This is to protect against fire in one location, ie your house.
This is a good idea, though I'd doubt people would be making sure to have both of these at all times if they'd be making transactions regularly.
So, if I was an average Joe I'd be using Blockchain.info or Bitgo. Two easy to use online wallets.
May 01, 2017, 03:59:40 PM
Simple solution:
- do not encrypt wallet.
- write down your password on a piece of paper and hide it somewhere safe. (uh another problem, he cannot remember where did he kept the paper)
- have password hints
- use all the letters in the alphabet as password or use your name in reverse as a password.
It is not a secure solution ,you must always encrypt your wallet but you can always save your password and pass phrase in a note pad which is not that difficult and keep in a safe location,never use password hints and easy ones since you are dealing with money and make sure you put in a very good password so that no one is able to crack it easily. - do not encrypt wallet.
- write down your password on a piece of paper and hide it somewhere safe. (uh another problem, he cannot remember where did he kept the paper)
- have password hints
- use all the letters in the alphabet as password or use your name in reverse as a password.
May 01, 2017, 03:48:06 PM
It's something which seems crucial to me for reaching mass adoption (in addition to scalabilty of course...).
Already on this forum there is a shitload of people losing their Bitcoins by forgetting passphrases, the private keys, the dat file etc...
So I would like to know what technological solutions could be proposed for this problem.
To make a comparison, a lot of people are forgetting their credit card code (even if it's only 4 digits...) or losing the card and the centralized solution to this is the bank providing new card/code.
Which decentralized solutions to this problems could you think of?
Already on this forum there is a shitload of people losing their Bitcoins by forgetting passphrases, the private keys, the dat file etc...
So I would like to know what technological solutions could be proposed for this problem.
To make a comparison, a lot of people are forgetting their credit card code (even if it's only 4 digits...) or losing the card and the centralized solution to this is the bank providing new card/code.
Which decentralized solutions to this problems could you think of?
Simple solution for average Joes..
Don't use bitcoin, if you can't remember password, passphrase, private keys or dat file.
Don't use c. card, if you can't remember pin.
Maybe in future we will get finger print, retina scan, face detection etc etc in the bitcoin tech.
May 01, 2017, 03:34:40 PM
How can we expect? Just like he remembers the password of his email account... Exactly the same.
What problem? I don't see any problems or issues here. This isn't certainly a Bitcoin problem, at least... People still have to remember things and exercise their mind. We can't come up with tech solutions for each and every human error or fault. Creating such will only make matters worse.
This makes me remember when those cars with autosteer/autopilot functionality crash due to human error and since the system was on, human blames the machine because of "bugs". We cannot blame technology for our faults. If one forgets to make a backup of his wallet or his password, it's sad, but it was his fault for forgetting.
This is generally considered to be a very weak "secret phrase" as you leave your fingerprint in many places. This has already been discussed a while back.
This is generally not recommended.
This might be bad too.
Good advice
So I would like to know what technological solutions could be proposed for this problem.
What problem? I don't see any problems or issues here. This isn't certainly a Bitcoin problem, at least... People still have to remember things and exercise their mind. We can't come up with tech solutions for each and every human error or fault. Creating such will only make matters worse.
This makes me remember when those cars with autosteer/autopilot functionality crash due to human error and since the system was on, human blames the machine because of "bugs". We cannot blame technology for our faults. If one forgets to make a backup of his wallet or his password, it's sad, but it was his fault for forgetting.
A weird idea
can we somehow use our fingerprints as a secret phrase? Any limitations for this?
can we somehow use our fingerprints as a secret phrase? Any limitations for this?
This is generally considered to be a very weak "secret phrase" as you leave your fingerprint in many places. This has already been discussed a while back.
Simple solution:
- do not encrypt wallet.
- use all the letters in the alphabet as password or use your name in reverse as a password.
- do not encrypt wallet.
- use all the letters in the alphabet as password or use your name in reverse as a password.
This is generally not recommended.
Simple solution:
- have password hints
- have password hints
This might be bad too.
There are many ways, just do what is comfortable for you. Do not let foolishness makes you lose bitcoin.
Good advice
May 01, 2017, 03:25:19 PM
It's something which seems crucial to me for reaching mass adoption (in addition to scalabilty of course...).
Already on this forum there is a shitload of people losing their Bitcoins by forgetting passphrases, the private keys, the dat file etc...
Even if you forget your passphrase and loose your dat file if you are capable of saving your private keys then it is more than enough to use your coins and if you are not capable of doing that then you are not good enough to use any service .It is quite difficult to memorize the passphrases and the only solution is the save everything in a safe place.Already on this forum there is a shitload of people losing their Bitcoins by forgetting passphrases, the private keys, the dat file etc...
even bother to remember/memorize, its just to random. the best,less expensive and risky solution would be to have a paper wallet
May 01, 2017, 03:02:13 PM
Is this a very big issue at all? It is not even our problem, it's the wallet owner's problem. Why the hell did he/she uses a password that is too difficult that even he cannot even remember it? Sounds stupidity to me.
Simple solution:
- do not encrypt wallet.
- write down your password on a piece of paper and hide it somewhere safe. (uh another problem, he cannot remember where did he kept the paper)
- have password hints
- use all the letters in the alphabet as password or use your name in reverse as a password.
There are many ways, just do what is comfortable for you. Do not let foolishness makes you lose bitcoin.
Simple solution:
- do not encrypt wallet.
- write down your password on a piece of paper and hide it somewhere safe. (uh another problem, he cannot remember where did he kept the paper)
- have password hints
- use all the letters in the alphabet as password or use your name in reverse as a password.
There are many ways, just do what is comfortable for you. Do not let foolishness makes you lose bitcoin.
Jump to: