How can we fasten the transaction of payment in BITCOIN paying high fees?

franky1

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Quote from: socks435 on December 02, 2016, 11:01:35 AM

-next block before its confirm. 0.0015231 btc/kb
-within 2 blocks before it confirms 0.0010154 btc/kb
-within 5 blocks 0.00083274 btc/kb
-within 10 blocks 0.00069784 btc/kb
-within 25 blocks. 0.00069784 btc/kb

so here is your maths works out as U.S dollar

next block pay over $1/kb (40cent tx average)
within 2 block pay over $0.76/kb (30cent tx average)
within 5 block pay over $0.63/kb (25cent tx average)
within 10 block pay over $0.53/kb (21cent tx average)
within 25 block pay over $0.53/kb (21cent tx average)

silly high prices electrum is "average estimating" and guess what...even then its not a guarantee.

the only issue is if 5000 people all paid 0.0015231 btc/kb
only ~2500 will get into the next block because there is a limit.
laving the other half waiting

no one knows who/which one of them people paying over $1 a kb will get it.
theres usually a 3 groups of people that will always pay the top fee, no matter what
1. i need it now theres someone im trading with looking at his watch, tutting and moaning
2. i just dont want the hassle of keep checking the blockchain or having to rebroadcast and/or calculate fee's
3. if i pay more i naively dont understand bitcoin and think it will confirm in 20 seconds by paying more.

now then. there is no way to guarantee any of the 3 groups get in first..
now then, there is no way to guarantee group 1 gets higher priority to go first(real need).

even when paying obsurd amounts of 40cents per average tx ($1/kb)

summary
fee estimates alone do no work. especially in a spoonfed sheep herd crowd
there needs to be a PROPER WORKING secondary mechanism BASED ON CODE and flags to highlight real priority of the herd crowd of "just pay more" spoonfed people

vasrasus

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Quote from: Kprawn on December 02, 2016, 10:45:48 AM

Quote from: Zadicar on December 02, 2016, 03:46:32 AM

Paying the highest possible fees would surely fasten up your transaction but same as member mentioned above it doesnt even guarantee you on which block you are included but its still an advantage though if you are on a hurry then putting high fee would be recommended but if youre not in a hurry better to use up free or small fees.The advantage of high fees which really prioritize your transactions.

What happens if everyone has the same idea, and they all pay higher fees... then the recommended minimum fees will be that fee and

everyone will still compete for the same space. Higher fees will only work in the short term, if there are people paying lower fees, but there

are just so much space to accommodate a certain amount of transactions... if that is full... you got to wait. Simplified version.. Grin

Right concept . If everyone will pay higher then someone will beat it then the fee will goes and goes again which will be hurtful to us because the amount that we can earn will be shorten. I think the payment time or transaction is fair enough now because there is less issues or mistakes that happened because everything goes in a proper process so just really have a little patient. One way or another the payment will come for sure.

socks435

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Quote from: Zadicar on December 02, 2016, 03:46:32 AM

Paying the highest possible fees would surely fasten up your transaction but same as member mentioned above it doesnt even guarantee you on which block you are included but its still an advantage though if you are on a hurry then putting high fee would be recommended but if youre not in a hurry better to use up free or small fees.The advantage of high fees which really prioritize your transactions.

What do you mean i am using electrum but there is a selection in fee below is the list of adjusting fee in electrum

-next block before its confirm. 0.0015231 btc/kb
-within 2 blocks before it confirms 0.0010154 btc/kb
-within 5 blocks 0.00083274 btc/kb
-within 10 blocks 0.00069784 btc/kb
-within 25 blocks. 0.00069784 btc/kb

I am always choosing next block and i experience of fast transaction.. now i do not understand what he other said that it doesn't guarantee you in which block i am included?

I think the transaction speed it is always been depends in the fee and the transaction size per kb..

Kprawn

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Quote from: Zadicar on December 02, 2016, 03:46:32 AM

Paying the highest possible fees would surely fasten up your transaction but same as member mentioned above it doesnt even guarantee you on which block you are included but its still an advantage though if you are on a hurry then putting high fee would be recommended but if youre not in a hurry better to use up free or small fees.The advantage of high fees which really prioritize your transactions.

What happens if everyone has the same idea, and they all pay higher fees... then the recommended minimum fees will be that fee and

everyone will still compete for the same space. Higher fees will only work in the short term, if there are people paying lower fees, but there

are just so much space to accommodate a certain amount of transactions... if that is full... you got to wait. Simplified version.. Grin

romero121

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Using wallet recommended fee is more than enough for faster transaction. Even low amount gets confirmation a bit delayed than the confirmation happening with the recommended fee. In my view waiting for confirmation too is not required, once after sending bitcoin the receiver gets the status of transaction under unconfirmed transactions.

crairezx20

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I think it can help to check this chart for the updated fees.. that you should pay in order faster transaction..
In experience sometimes they are not the same the my transaction is fast even i pay large fee..
I change my minimum fee into 50k sat i still not halving any issue for transaction.. in electrum i experience that i just max the fee and they are paying almost 20k sat to 40k sat depends of the transaction size. and if you choose within the next block you should pay for the highest fee recommended by electrum it gives me sometimes 10 minutes to receive. sometimes before 1 hour.

abel1337

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I dont know on how much average time you will get your bitcoin if you pay higher fee. In fact i didnt even tries putting additional transaction fee on my transactions.I always stick on recommended fee, Sometimes it is quite fast sometimes it is delayed.

equator

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Quote from: Cloverdale on December 02, 2016, 09:59:25 AM

Quote from: NorrisK on December 02, 2016, 02:27:25 AM

Using higher fees does not guarantee next block inclusion of your transaction.

If you use the recommended fee, you are doing probably the best you can to get it included the fastest as possible.

Unfortunately, sometimes to backlog increases due to spam transactions or slow block finds which may slow down when your transaction gets confirmed.

It doesn't?
I have always thought that it does guarantee it to be sent faster. Then why even put a higher than needed recommended fee in the first place?
I did last night and 24 hours later it still has not had one full confirmation yet on the send.

As their is heavy transaction in the blockchain and due to lack of block size we all have to wait for more time to get confirmation of the transactions. Till the block size is not resolved we will be facing this problem as the bitcoin users are getting more and more increase the transaction are also increased and current block size is not sufficient to hold the large quantity of Transaction which is making delay in confirmation of Transactions

Cloverdale

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Quote from: NorrisK on December 02, 2016, 02:27:25 AM

Using higher fees does not guarantee next block inclusion of your transaction.

If you use the recommended fee, you are doing probably the best you can to get it included the fastest as possible.

Unfortunately, sometimes to backlog increases due to spam transactions or slow block finds which may slow down when your transaction gets confirmed.

It doesn't?
I have always thought that it does guarantee it to be sent faster. Then why even put a higher than needed recommended fee in the first place?
I did last night and 24 hours later it still has not had one full confirmation yet on the send.

hisuka

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This is also comes in my mind on how to fasten the transactions
of payment in bitcoin. As far as I know, it comes with
the block though we could not guarantee it will be included
in the next transactions.

Capradina

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Nothing is a problem without a way out. So this is something of a problem that should not be raised or feared. Because this is purely due to the level of difficulty of mines which caused the confirmation of every transaction there that long. You don't have to think about or wear a high fee, therefore only give temporary effects and sometimes confirmation level not as you think. the most important thing is doing something good in the bitcoin then you will benefit

stdset

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Quote from: franky1 on December 02, 2016, 04:05:28 AM

dev's need to act like devs and less like bankers and make some actual code that sorts our priority rather than an empty unpredictable fee war

Whatever priority policy devs implement, miners can change it. A miner is free to include any valid txes, the network will happily accept their blocks.
For example, if the same company runs a pool and an exchange, the pool will likely be including txes to/from the exchange, regardless of fee, while some other regular pool will likely be using 'maximum greed' policy.

hifzi

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can some one explain about this Sad

https://blockchain.info/tx/d490db9ff46822db8245540bf961058af2174650c7256cf95e9c33ab9a240669

i sent some BTC with high fee
but still not confirmed aven after 12 hours?

edit : now get 1 confirmation thanks

mobnepal

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Quote from: leonair on December 02, 2016, 02:15:44 AM

It seems that even you pay fees when transacting or sending through blockchain with bitcoin, you still have to wait for a mean time or maybe a long period of time, but there is a free of charge in sending bitcoin and when you look at the blockchain you ride along with another sender/hash that is paying a fee, is it unfair or there is a logically explanation behind it?.

You can have better understanding regarding recommended fee or suitable fee from here https://bitcoinfees.21.co/

Quote

The fastest and cheapest transaction fee is currently 110 satoshis/byte, shown in green at the top.

So you can see 110 satoshi/byte fee can insure your transaction will be included/confirmed within next block but this may take 0-40 minute because not always block will be mined in 10 minute difference, 10 minute is average time between two blocks.

Transaction without fee/ 0 satoshi in fee are unlikely to get any confirmation.

leonair

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Quote from: franky1 on December 02, 2016, 03:44:50 AM

there are no guarantee's.

put it this way. imagine there are only ~2500 seats on a train.. 5000 passengers pay 15cents a ticket.
only 2500 get on the train. and 2500 left waiting at the platform for the next train in ~10 minutes.

however another 5000 people walk onto the platform. see how crowded it is so they pay 16cents.
only 2500 paying 16cents get on the next train. leaving 2500@15cents and 2500 at@16cents on the platform

however another 5000 people walk onto the platform. see how crowded it is so they pay 17cents.
only 2500 paying 17cents get on the next train. leaving 2500@15cents, 2500 at@16cents and 2500 at@17cents on the platform

however another 5000 people walk onto the platform. see how crowded it is so they pay 18cents.
only 2500 paying 18cents get on the next train. leaving 2500@15cents, 2500 at@16cents, 2500 at@17cents and 2500 at@18cents on the platform

paying 15cents which is top rate at train one does not give you any 'first in first on' privileged priority due to when they got on the platform or even asked "urgent need step forward, dont mind waiting step back".

its an auction.. highest payer wins a seat.
the issue is that people are all seeing these 'recommended fee's' and 'estimated fee's and they are then shooting themselves in the foot.
everyone ends up paying more than the last,

if everyone is forced to pay xxcents(many web wallets).. then some people that didnt mind waiting get on, while some that need to get on may not. because priority is not recognised in anyway. it just ends up as everyone pay more rule
dev's have not acted as devs to actually code "priority" properly. they acted more like bankers letting fee's rule. but then acted like bankers by trying to get everyone to pay a fee no matter how happy they are about waiting

yes you can just pay less manually.. but the old priority structure and many methods of coding a new priority structure have been avoided. and its just a bidding war

So it's a first large fees comes first serve priority, how about the free fee transactions that is going along to some other bitcoin addresses that really pay a fees, so it's like a lottery that only base on luck.

butcherboss

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Yes transactions without a fee may get confirmed but there is no guarantee. With the recommended fee the transaction will get confirmed for sure so to prevent non-confirmation you pay fee also it helps the miner Wink

franky1

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Quote from: n691309 on December 02, 2016, 04:09:11 AM

If i pay 0.001 or 0.005 transaction fees then there is no difference that the transaction will get included in the first next block, i usually pay normal fees and it get included in the first few blocks if not in the first.

but ur also paying 70cents $3.50.. which then starts ramping up the average estimator.

all im saying is fee alone is not enough there needs to be a priority flag too. otherwise its just a lottery and auction

n691309

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Quote from: franky1 on December 02, 2016, 04:05:28 AM

Quote from: n691309 on December 02, 2016, 04:00:32 AM

You should only pay normal fees not very high because it doesn't guarantee that your transaction will get faster included in the block, pay normal but not very high.

lol
if everyone pays the normal fee then its impossible to know who is happy to wait and who is desperate to get on.

dev's need to act like devs and less like bankers and make some actual code that sorts our priority rather than an empty unpredictable fee war

If i pay 0.001 or 0.005 transaction fees then there is no difference that the transaction will get included in the first next block, i usually pay normal fees and it get included in the first few blocks if not in the first.

franky1

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Quote from: n691309 on December 02, 2016, 04:00:32 AM

You should only pay normal fees not very high because it doesn't guarantee that your transaction will get faster included in the block, pay normal but not very high.

lol
if everyone pays the normal fee then its impossible to know who is happy to wait and who is desperate to get on.

dev's need to act like devs and less like bankers and make some actual code that sorts our priority rather than an empty unpredictable fee war

put it this way. imagine there are only ~2500 seats on a train.. 5000 passengers pay "normal" 15cents a ticket.
only 2500 get on the train. and 2500 left waiting at the platform for the next train in ~10 minutes.

no one knows which of the 2500 of 5000 get on, because they all paid the same.. its a lottery.

a fee estimator and everyone paying the same amount or those wanting priority all paying a 1cent extra also does not show real priority. especially at the next block where everyone is paying 1cent more making so those paying more at block 1 are then mixed with "average" people of block2 meaning the lottery of randomness begins again

but imagine there was a flag that said "1.life or death need it now, 2.need it now but not life or death. 3.soonish please 4. i dont care"

then 1250(1) and 1250(2) get in.. and (3)(4) are waiting.
without a priority flag.. everyone paying 16cents is treated the same. even if they were the ones paying 16 cents when the average was 15cents previous block

n691309

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You should only pay normal fees not very high because it doesn't guarantee that your transaction will get faster included in the block, pay normal but not very high.

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