How come both the "gas" and "fee" prices shoot up without ETH and BTC move?

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Quote from: user210822 on December 23, 2023, 08:00:30 AM

The thing interests me the most is: suppose there will be priority of BTC on the market and everybody will start to send transactions twice a day at least. What happens then to the subject?

Did you make a transaction in BTC today, if you did it today I think the answer is answered. What needs to be addressed now is just to work around the amount of the fee and don't rush into determining the amount of the transaction fee, meaning just set it normally and wait a few days and then your assets will come in. Even if you use the Lightning Network option, you can because Bitcoin may take some time to transfer from one address to another and this is the subject that is seen first besides the factors of Increased trading activity and investor interest.

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its mainly because the gas and fee aren't affected by the prices, the fact that transaction might be increasing in certain blockchain doesn't mean that these transaction suddenly increase because the price also increase, its because sometime in ethereum and bitcoin blockchain there are some event, remember the ordinal inscription that took advantage of the exploit as stated by many people its indicated that they are the reason bitcoin shoot up in term of prices, a blockchain wasn't meant for such thing being used for different thing, with ethereum it long has been known that there are simply too much project being deployed in the blockchain that it causes congestion, as a result the fee increase so high because some people are willing to price high their gas fee for the sake of being confirmed first, its always the thing with blockchain in general not limited to only the two blockchain.
thats why gas and fee could always shoot up high even without the price moving.

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Quote from: icalical on December 21, 2023, 07:25:55 AM

Ethereum has been experience high-fee since the ICO boom when people are not only sending ETH but also ERC-20 Token, both were using the Ethereum blockchain with more crowded transaction, it will take longer and when some people want their transaction to be proceed early they will raise the transaction fee, more people want their transaction to be proceed earlier than the other increase the fee even more, and so on and so forth.
...
Bitcoin Blockchain used to only process BTC transaction now is occupied with BRC-20 and ordinals, same thing that happened in Ethereum Blockhain is happening to Bitcoin Blockchain.

The thing interests me the most is: suppose there will be priority of BTC on the market and everybody will start to send transactions twice a day at least. What happens then to the subject?

icalical

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The Bitcoin (and ETH) transaction were not affected -or not affected significantly- by their price movement. Ethereum has been experience high-fee since the ICO boom when people are not only sending ETH but also ERC-20 Token, both were using the Ethereum blockchain with more crowded transaction, it will take longer and when some people want their transaction to be proceed early they will raise the transaction fee, more people want their transaction to be proceed earlier than the other increase the fee even more, and so on and so forth.

Currently Bitcoin blockchain is fulfilled with BRC-20 and Ordinals, Bitcoin Blockchain used to only process BTC transaction now is occupied with BRC-20 and ordinals, same thing that happened in Ethereum Blockhain is happening to Bitcoin Blockchain.

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Quote from: user210822 on December 18, 2023, 03:15:57 AM

Quote from: libert19 on December 13, 2023, 04:16:33 AM

Couple weeks ago, when fees spiked to $20 usd, I made transfer on night with 42 sats fee (~2 usd) and transaction was confirmed by morning.

[1] https://bitcoinfees.net/

What will be my chances to see transaction well confirmed if I set priority to the lowest possible then?

Different wallets give different fees selecting lowest option. Use this site — https://bitcoinfees.net/ — go with last option, and your transaction should get confirmed within 24hrs.

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Quote from: gunhell16 on December 13, 2023, 01:12:15 AM

Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

Before, the only problem we always had and complained about was the high fee of ETH (ERC20). Until now, it is still high, but unexpectedly, we have experienced several times that when there is congestion in the bitcoin network due to the ordinals, bitcoin fees are also high.

And worst of all, Bitcoin's charge fee has recently become even higher compared to ERC20, which is really a headache for all Bitcoin holders.
I hope in the near future the developers will resolve this problem anyhow.

Yes, hopefully this problem will be resolved quickly because there is no other choice but to wait, wait and wait.
Currently I am not making transactions because the fees are very expensive and maybe I will wait until the problem is resolved and it returns to normal to make transactions again, and this is giving me a headache.
And not long ago I was cheated when I tried to make a transaction, suddenly the fee changed to only $2.4, I was happy and made an exchange, and after I did that, suddenly the fee changed to $24. And this incident really made me dizzy.

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Quote from: tygeade on December 12, 2023, 11:50:23 AM

I believe that 10 bucks is fine, but that's about as fine as it gets, anything more than that is a lot, we shouldn't be here even when the price is not above the ATH price, if there was a huge hype and 100k+ dollar bitcoin price then I would understand but at this stage, when we are just starting, it's clear that we are going to have some trouble in the near future, that should be the most important part of the deal.

That's what my topic was meant to be! Better clear out if it'll be some trouble or BIG TROUBLE!?

Quote from: _BlackStar on December 12, 2023, 12:29:04 PM

For some users - $10 to $20 is not a lot of money, but most users are not willing to pay that much when there are many other options to choose from. One of the innovations that the bitcoin community prides itself on is its low transaction fees - so when the price gets expensive, it's only natural that some people start turning their attention to altcoins or other cheaper options.

My intention was to make small transaction as test. Then I require to send the rest of it. It comes to 20$ - 40$ for both even when the sum doesn't make millions of assets!

Quote from: Sunderland on December 12, 2023, 12:47:53 PM

Yeah I agree between $5 to $10 is ok when the network is clogged like now.

Could not agree more!

Quote from: poodle63 on December 12, 2023, 07:53:25 PM

right now the fee is already quite high enough to be honest and it might get worse if the ordinal inscriptions gets more and more popular.
although its good to see some innovation I guess its indeed a loss for bitcoin and the innovation isn't necessarily needed in this case.

And when I tried to rise this as a warning community here made a laugh of me! So what about to move your 1 BTC one should have to fee 0,9 BTC?! Seems like a real perspective to me in a light of ongoing mempool clogging...

Quote from: libert19 on December 13, 2023, 04:16:33 AM

Couple weeks ago, when fees spiked to $20 usd, I made transfer on night with 42 sats fee (~2 usd) and transaction was confirmed by morning.

[1] https://bitcoinfees.net/

What will be my chances to see transaction well confirmed if I set priority to the lowest possible then?

Quote from: hyudien on December 13, 2023, 06:00:36 AM

Ordinal should be taken down because of the disease in the Bitcoin network.

So the problem is there... Roll Eyes

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on December 11, 2023, 03:50:11 AM

What loss are you referring to?

Well, my transaction has been completed and this is the first time sending bitcoins, it took a long time up to 3 days.

Losses when Bitcoin transactions are busy due to the aggressiveness of BRC/Ordinal and some NFTs on the BTC network are increasingly hampering it. Another loss was when I sent Bitcoin at a price of around $100 and waited for confirmation and estimated the price was still at $44K due to the density of transactions and inevitably felt the impact when the price fell.

Quote from: Sunderland on December 12, 2023, 10:42:40 AM

How much were the fees? Last night it only takes a few hours from me with 59 sats/byte (3 inputs with 1 output).
If you send it with the fee less than 35 sats/byte, then it will take ages. Maybe better to double spend the transactions or yeah use viabtc as Charles-Tim mentioned above.
Because there are almost 200k dust transactions clogged the network and only God knows when it will be confirmed or purged from the network.

I set it at 22sats/byte, because usually that is always the minimum option and it doesn't take many days, plus at that time I wasn't searching for news about ordinals.

Quote from: poodle63 on December 12, 2023, 07:53:25 PM

there has been many concern in regard of ordinal these day so many people also have the opinion that ordinal is just taking advantage of exploit and its gonna be a problem and yes its already a problem right now because the blockchain I think wasn't intended for that

Ordinal should be taken down because of the disease in the Bitcoin network.

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Quote from: Litzki1990 on December 13, 2023, 04:08:53 AM

You are noticing a nine dollar fee for your BTC transfer but I have been trying to transfer my Bitcoin regularly for some time now but when it says fifty dollars as a transfer fee I no longer want to transfer BTC. This is very unusual and embarrassing. Needed but we are unable to transfer our BTC due to extra transaction fees. This problem has been happening for quite some time, I don't know how long we have to wait for our BTC transfer.

It could be due to wallet, they often show more fees than necessary, that's why it's better to check on third party sites and choose custom fee.

According to BitcoinFees [1], It's cheap right now, 62 sats fee and shows confirmation within 20 min. Anyhow, if it's not urgent you can make a transaction at low fee and wait. Couple weeks ago, when fees spiked to $20 usd, I made transfer on night with 42 sats fee (~2 usd) and transaction was confirmed by morning.

[1] https://bitcoinfees.net/

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You are noticing a nine dollar fee for your BTC transfer but I have been trying to transfer my Bitcoin regularly for some time now but when it says fifty dollars as a transfer fee I no longer want to transfer BTC. This is very unusual and embarrassing. Needed but we are unable to transfer our BTC due to extra transaction fees. This problem has been happening for quite some time, I don't know how long we have to wait for our BTC transfer.

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

Before, the only problem we always had and complained about was the high fee of ETH (ERC20). Until now, it is still high, but unexpectedly, we have experienced several times that when there is congestion in the bitcoin network due to the ordinals, bitcoin fees are also high.

And worst of all, Bitcoin's charge fee has recently become even higher compared to ERC20, which is really a headache for all Bitcoin holders.
I hope in the near future the developers will resolve this problem anyhow.

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Quote from: hyudien on December 11, 2023, 03:44:20 AM

For almost 2 days my transaction process was stuck and it had not been confirmed. It may take a week or more and it is clear that Bitcoin users are very fed up with this kind of heavy traffic. I agree that Ordinal is one of the factors inhibiting Bitcoin transactions and brings more disease when strange people are interested in adopting Ordinal. In my opinion the people who launched Ordinal are responsible for the breakdown of Bitcoin transactions, because of this congestion small investors are increasingly discouraged from buying Bitcoin for the long term especially when high gas fees also make centralized exchanges have a strong reason to withhold Bitcoin from their use.

Isn't this a loss?

there has been many concern in regard of ordinal these day so many people also have the opinion that ordinal is just taking advantage of exploit and its gonna be a problem and yes its already a problem right now because the blockchain I think wasn't intended for that and its indeed clogs up the blockchain nowadays, even jack dorsey saying they not gonna process any ordi transactions in his mining pool so I guess some people are truly concerned right now. honestly these tokenization and things better off being processed in the sidechain that is smart contract compatible instead of trying to get the transaction happen in bitcoin blockchain.
right now the fee is already quite high enough to be honest and it might get worse if the ordinal inscriptions gets more and more popular.
although its good to see some innovation I guess its indeed a loss for bitcoin and the innovation isn't necessarily needed in this case.

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Quote from: tygeade on December 12, 2023, 11:50:23 AM

Quote from: Sunderland on December 12, 2023, 10:42:40 AM

How much were the fees? Last night it only takes a few hours from me with 59 sats/byte (3 inputs with 1 output).
If you send it with the fee less than 35 sats/byte, then it will take ages. Maybe better to double spend the transactions or yeah use viabtc as Charles-Tim mentioned above.
Because there are almost 200k dust transactions clogged the network and only God knows when it will be confirmed or purged from the network.

Obviously depends on how much you are sending (not the same if you are sending 50 million dollars worth) but it's about at 10-11 dollars right now on average. I do not know what the size of the transaction you made, but if you paid around ten bucks then you did pay about how much everyone else pays, and that means you have done fine. The sats/byte is important, but on average is a lot more important on discussion, because everyone has different sizes, but the average of the payment is something we can all commonly think about and talk about as well.

I believe that 10 bucks is fine, but that's about as fine as it gets, anything more than that is a lot, we shouldn't be here even when the price is not above the ATH price, if there was a huge hype and 100k+ dollar bitcoin price then I would understand but at this stage, when we are just starting, it's clear that we are going to have some trouble in the near future, that should be the most important part of the deal.

with 3 inputs the size is 488 bytes, total fees 14,458 sats ($5.99)
Its small amount of money, short story: I want to send 0.003 BTC from my trust wallet balance but the fees was $22 (not cool to use 20% of the balance only for the fees) so I imported the passphrase to electrum and sent it from there.

Yeah I agree between $5 to $10 is ok when the network is clogged like now.

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Quote from: tygeade on December 12, 2023, 11:50:23 AM

Quote from: Sunderland on December 12, 2023, 10:42:40 AM

-snip-

Obviously depends on how much you are sending (not the same if you are sending 50 million dollars worth) but it's about at 10-11 dollars right now on average. I do not know what the size of the transaction you made, but if you paid around ten bucks then you did pay about how much everyone else pays, and that means you have done fine. The sats/byte is important, but on average is a lot more important on discussion, because everyone has different sizes, but the average of the payment is something we can all commonly think about and talk about as well.

I believe that 10 bucks is fine, but that's about as fine as it gets, anything more than that is a lot, we shouldn't be here even when the price is not above the ATH price, if there was a huge hype and 100k+ dollar bitcoin price then I would understand but at this stage, when we are just starting, it's clear that we are going to have some trouble in the near future, that should be the most important part of the deal.

The lower the transaction fees, the better - but that doesn't mean high transaction fees are always bad. We may never see the day when we can send bitcoin at a cost of 1 sat/vB again - but it certainly has made it clear that usage of the bitcoin network continues to increase. Mempool are full of ordinal transactions and this has been an issue discussed for some time.

For some users - $10 to $20 is not a lot of money, but most users are not willing to pay that much when there are many other options to choose from. One of the innovations that the bitcoin community prides itself on is its low transaction fees - so when the price gets expensive, it's only natural that some people start turning their attention to altcoins or other cheaper options.

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Quote from: bluebit25 on November 24, 2023, 10:53:34 PM

Either you accept paying transaction fees to increase speed, or you accept the current state. I don't think the congestion is just some increased activity on the platform that brings this issue to attention.

Hmm isn't a "congestion" can be a network state due to high volumes of transactions? therefore congestion is really the challenge to any network that increases it's network activity? I can agree that you could have just choose between paying high transaction fee or accept the current network state, speeding up your transaction or wait til ages.

I think this problem will still remain for a few more years.

Quote from: bluebit25 on November 24, 2023, 10:53:34 PM

- Ethereum, I think the current altcoin scene has many alternatives that you can completely rest assured about such as EVM, L2,... some new L2 ecosystems such as OP, ARB,... are all brings great usage experiences. So don't be too forced to use Etherum.

Yeah, don't force yourself with using the ethereum network, coz these days there are so much more you can use to avoid these problems.

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Quote from: Sunderland on December 12, 2023, 10:42:40 AM

How much were the fees? Last night it only takes a few hours from me with 59 sats/byte (3 inputs with 1 output).
If you send it with the fee less than 35 sats/byte, then it will take ages. Maybe better to double spend the transactions or yeah use viabtc as Charles-Tim mentioned above.
Because there are almost 200k dust transactions clogged the network and only God knows when it will be confirmed or purged from the network.

Obviously depends on how much you are sending (not the same if you are sending 50 million dollars worth) but it's about at 10-11 dollars right now on average. I do not know what the size of the transaction you made, but if you paid around ten bucks then you did pay about how much everyone else pays, and that means you have done fine. The sats/byte is important, but on average is a lot more important on discussion, because everyone has different sizes, but the average of the payment is something we can all commonly think about and talk about as well.

I believe that 10 bucks is fine, but that's about as fine as it gets, anything more than that is a lot, we shouldn't be here even when the price is not above the ATH price, if there was a huge hype and 100k+ dollar bitcoin price then I would understand but at this stage, when we are just starting, it's clear that we are going to have some trouble in the near future, that should be the most important part of the deal.

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Quote from: hyudien on December 11, 2023, 03:44:20 AM

For almost 2 days my transaction process was stuck and it had not been confirmed. It may take a week or more and it is clear that Bitcoin users are very fed up with this kind of heavy traffic. I agree that Ordinal is one of the factors inhibiting Bitcoin transactions and brings more disease when strange people are interested in adopting Ordinal. In my opinion the people who launched Ordinal are responsible for the breakdown of Bitcoin transactions, because of this congestion small investors are increasingly discouraged from buying Bitcoin for the long term especially when high gas fees also make centralized exchanges have a strong reason to withhold Bitcoin from their use.

Isn't this a loss?

How much were the fees? Last night it only takes a few hours from me with 59 sats/byte (3 inputs with 1 output).
If you send it with the fee less than 35 sats/byte, then it will take ages. Maybe better to double spend the transactions or yeah use viabtc as Charles-Tim mentioned above.
Because there are almost 200k dust transactions clogged the network and only God knows when it will be confirmed or purged from the network.

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Quote from: Casdinyard on December 11, 2023, 11:15:55 AM

I think I'd side with the elitists here and stand with keeping the block size of bitcoin at a 1mb limit,

We can also look into integrating a new consensus mechanism at least in this second layer and have all payments and transactions be processed there to make sure that fees are charged less.

The maximum block size in Bitcoin is 4 MB, it started since segwit integration in 2017.

The on chain network and lightning network are different, you can't force every users to use LN, but you have an option to use which network you want. Just like there are many Bitcoin addresses, after native segwit is widely adopted, I don't see any reason why people need to use legacy address.

Quote from: user210822 on December 12, 2023, 07:45:47 AM

Is it possible to give power back to users instead of nodes?

It's not 100% decentralized anymore if there are few users can control it.

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Quote from: Casdinyard on December 11, 2023, 11:15:55 AM

I think I'd side with the elitists here and stand with keeping the block size of bitcoin at a 1mb limit, whilst looking at other options to earn the coveted scalability benefit. One of which is actually adding a real layer 2 solution in the bitcoin network that's more robust than the current lightning network we have, which I must say is not that good in terms of actually doing its job. We can also look into integrating a new consensus mechanism at least in this second layer and have all payments and transactions be processed there to make sure that fees are charged less.

At the end of the day, as long as the devs don't do shit about it, no amount of banning "violators" or "exploiters" is going to stop bitcoin from experiencing this problem we'll have this issue again and again.

Is it possible to give power back to users instead of nodes?
The one responsible for spending should be able to add value to the blockchain and give efforts to maintain it, ain't is so?
Seems fair enough to me...

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Quote from: Zaguru12 on November 23, 2023, 04:46:54 PM

Quote from: el kaka22 on November 23, 2023, 01:41:22 PM

I know that it is not going to be easy at all, and I know that we are going to end up with something that would be difficult to handle, but we need to arrange something that has to be a bit different. I get that it is not going to be all that incredible, and yes it is not going to be a bigger deal, I hope that it gets to a point where we could just find a way to have bigger blocks, which means that more and more transactions could fit into it, even smaller ones, and make it quick. That would be a good situation, and should be a good return on our investment because we are spending a lot less in that situation as well.

Yes scalability is a big problem to bitcoin network and I know we will all be looking at increasing the block size, this has long been discussed and that was what brought the soft fork of segwit address using weight unit or virtual bytes instead of normal size unit and also the hard fork which is the BCH which I don’t think is doing well.

Once again the risk of having a bigger block size remains that the security of the bitcoin network will be tested. The higher the block size the higher the blockchain grows faster and this in turn makes it costly for one to run his own full node. If the number of node runners decreases then the decision of the network will be centralized to few nodes.

The higher the block size the less fee the paid to miners will be ( which is what we want ) but this will incentive the miners and probably result into them leaving the market most especially as the block reward is reducing. The lesser the miners are the less decentralize bitcoin network becomes

I think I'd side with the elitists here and stand with keeping the block size of bitcoin at a 1mb limit, whilst looking at other options to earn the coveted scalability benefit. One of which is actually adding a real layer 2 solution in the bitcoin network that's more robust than the current lightning network we have, which I must say is not that good in terms of actually doing its job. We can also look into integrating a new consensus mechanism at least in this second layer and have all payments and transactions be processed there to make sure that fees are charged less.

At the end of the day, as long as the devs don't do shit about it, no amount of banning "violators" or "exploiters" is going to stop bitcoin from experiencing this problem we'll have this issue again and again.

Topic: How come both the "gas" and "fee" prices shoot up without ETH and BTC move? (Read 523 times)