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Topic: How did bitcoin obtain it's value? (Read 3786 times)

legendary
Activity: 4424
Merit: 4794
November 26, 2014, 04:55:50 PM
#62
Power bills, difficulty rate, mining rigs cost etc

I mean the permissions to be able to transfer that bitcoin value into USD - Doesn't the governments have to allow that bitcoin value to be allowed to transfer into there currency? Does this mean there is significant government involvement in bitcoin since they allow it to be traded into the nations currency?

do you need a government signed document to transfer your fiat into a candy bar, or to convert it into a tin of baked beans?.. no
do you need permission to convert american fiat into euro fiat? no

bitcoin is classed as an asset currency, not a fiat currency, so think of it as buying anything in a shop, whether its someone elses products or currency
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
Bored with you morons.
November 26, 2014, 04:52:35 PM
#61

Great answer....here are some good links...


Thanks... I always take donations if you can spare some; struggling college student.
newbie
Activity: 43
Merit: 0
November 17, 2014, 06:18:29 AM
#60
The currency obviously has been given it's value somehow. I know it is preached to be different than regular fiat currency, but I am very curios how it went from an idea to now being able to be used for purchases, and given a value in relation to USD.

Me and a group of friends cannot come up with an idea for something to be used for transactions and then have that idea be able to transform into a countries currency. We can trade amongst ourselves but there is no way we can give it a value to be used to trade it into dollars. There has to be some type of government involvement in order for bitcoin to have a value in relation to a nations currency.

My question is how is the original concept of bitcoin given a value in dollars? Does this mean there is significant government involvement in bitcoin?

The question you should be asking is "what gives the US dollar value?" Wink

Yes that was one of my biggest questions as I go older
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Hodl!
November 17, 2014, 06:13:55 AM
#59
Oh that's easy, faith and trust and pixie dust.
full member
Activity: 148
Merit: 100
November 17, 2014, 01:29:52 AM
#58
The currency obviously has been given it's value somehow. I know it is preached to be different than regular fiat currency, but I am very curios how it went from an idea to now being able to be used for purchases, and given a value in relation to USD.

Me and a group of friends cannot come up with an idea for something to be used for transactions and then have that idea be able to transform into a countries currency. We can trade amongst ourselves but there is no way we can give it a value to be used to trade it into dollars. There has to be some type of government involvement in order for bitcoin to have a value in relation to a nations currency.

My question is how is the original concept of bitcoin given a value in dollars? Does this mean there is significant government involvement in bitcoin?

The question you should be asking is "what gives the US dollar value?" Wink
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
November 16, 2014, 03:50:12 AM
#57
Adoption and mining costs.
newbie
Activity: 43
Merit: 0
November 16, 2014, 02:59:39 AM
#56
The currency obviously has been given it's value somehow. I know it is preached to be different than regular fiat currency, but I am very curios how it went from an idea to now being able to be used for purchases, and given a value in relation to USD.

Me and a group of friends cannot come up with an idea for something to be used for transactions and then have that idea be able to transform into a countries currency. We can trade amongst ourselves but there is no way we can give it a value to be used to trade it into dollars. There has to be some type of government involvement in order for bitcoin to have a value in relation to a nations currency.

My question is how is the original concept of bitcoin given a value in dollars? Does this mean there is significant government involvement in bitcoin?

Things are given value simply on Supply/Demand. First, people are taking a risk that Bitcoin will maintain any value at all by accepting it as a form of payment.

However, once we get past that, individuals are simply saying I value this product I'm producing at such a price and a certain amount of other people will value it at the same arbitrary price. At that price you have an equilibrium and enough people to institute a trade of bitcoin (or any other currency) for the product.

The difference between BitCoin and USD (for example) is BitCoin's "printing press" will eventually be turned off. That's built into the way the system works. USD (or another countries currency) on the other hand has no control on having the printing press turned off, other than the government arbitrarily determining to stop printing.

There's no government involvement backing up the value of bitcoin. In part, the exchange rate is driven by the amount of people using BitCoin, with the express knowledge that the printing press will be turned off eventually. And in another part with the way other currency values and commodity prices move relative to one another. People can freely exchange and trade currencies on the FOREX market. You have free markets determining the values of currencies relative to one another.

Honestly, I'm trying to explain something far to complex to state as clearly as possible. And I am in no way an expert on currency markets or the like. I'm just a business management major that's taken macroeconomics and microeconomics. The valuing of a currency has many constantly moving, complex parts. I think you head would explode at the first watching of a business network segment on currency trading.

Here's a CNBC video for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSodzBHN7Y4



Great answer....here are some good links...

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/shelling-out/

http://web.archive.org/web/20070618142414/http://szabo.best.vwh.net/scarce.html

http://szabo.best.vwh.net/ttps.html

http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2008/04/bit-gold-markets.html?m=1

http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2011/05/bitcoin-what-took-ye-so-long.html?m=1

http://unenumerated.blogspot.ca/2008/06/commodity-hysteria-overview.html?m=1



These are some great links - thank you for sharing
sr. member
Activity: 379
Merit: 251
November 16, 2014, 02:17:25 AM
#55
OK so how i think it took it's value is from supply in demand for multiple things. The coins main value was based on how many people wanted the coin and how much they were willing to pay for the coin. That is how i think it came to be so valued from what i know from multiple things.
newbie
Activity: 32
Merit: 0
November 16, 2014, 12:57:38 AM
#54
Demand. If everyone was to stop purchasing, the price would fall. As buy orders come in, it rises.

good point, demand creates market. that's the value of all products
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
November 15, 2014, 11:05:41 PM
#53
Wily bot and mt.gox manipulation. Pump and dumpers played it.
hero member
Activity: 576
Merit: 503
November 15, 2014, 10:58:25 PM
#52
Power bills, difficulty rate, mining rigs cost etc

I mean the permissions to be able to transfer that bitcoin value into USD - Doesn't the governments have to allow that bitcoin value to be allowed to transfer into there currency? Does this mean there is significant government involvement in bitcoin since they allow it to be traded into the nations currency?

If you make cookies, people might pay for them.
No permission required, yet then they have value, right?
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
November 15, 2014, 10:34:00 PM
#51
Bitcoin is starting to suck, though The block time, the huge blockchain. It is not user friendly any more.

I had a 2 hour transaction lately, merely because no blocks were discovered. Litecoin is following that pattern.

Buy BDSM, it is cheap as fuck at AllCrypt, and only 6.9 milion coins.

We are hafway through that, and I plan to make mining far more difficult.

It will get rare. Try 0.05, and I guarantee that I believe you will have near to 1 bitcoin within a few months.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
November 15, 2014, 10:25:55 PM
#50
It got its value through being able to buy drugs of course....

Ever hear of the Silk Road? Tongue

Partly, and the shameless criminal behaviour of some exchanges, not just Gox, who operate in markets that are unregulated and believed this gave them the right to pump the fuck out of bitcoin, then dump on people that were paying mortgages and feeding kids.

They must be worried, though, as bitcoin gets a lot of attention now. A market not regulated by law is not a market that can break the law. A lot of people don't realise that, including some of the players (thick people often make money, it's one of life's little jokes).

I would love to see someone apart from Karpeles get his stubby fingers chopped in half.


legendary
Activity: 4018
Merit: 1250
Owner at AltQuick.com
November 15, 2014, 07:06:48 PM
#49
It got its value through being able to buy drugs of course....

Ever hear of the Silk Road? Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
November 15, 2014, 05:13:48 PM
#48
Your government has currency? I'm from America and we use Federal Reserve notes not US government currency.

 Roll Eyes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGk5ioEXlIM
newbie
Activity: 43
Merit: 0
November 15, 2014, 05:08:41 PM
#47
If you bought the internet domain name sex.com in the early 1990ies, you'd be a rich man today.

You can't touch it (ahem), it's entirely virtual, and it obtained its value without any government decree.

Bitcoins are also a virtual good, limited in amount, thus intrinsically valuable, they're just more fungible than internet domain names (and less centralized, not administered through the centralized DNS by organizations like the ICANN).

Very good point
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
November 15, 2014, 01:49:45 PM
#46
Your government has currency? I'm from America and we use Federal Reserve notes not US government currency.

In Canada, the Bank of Canada is a Crown Corporation. That means it operates at an arms length, but is still owned by the government.

Hum.... Here in EU it is more complex.. We have BCE
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1001
Let the chips fall where they may.
November 15, 2014, 01:35:10 PM
#45
Your government has currency? I'm from America and we use Federal Reserve notes not US government currency.

In Canada, the Bank of Canada is a Crown Corporation. That means it operates at an arms length, but is still owned by the government.
sr. member
Activity: 382
Merit: 311
November 15, 2014, 12:35:12 AM
#44
Your government has currency? I'm from America and we use Federal Reserve notes not US government currency.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
Brainwashed this way
November 15, 2014, 12:26:46 AM
#43
The currency obviously has been given it's value somehow. I know it is preached to be different than regular fiat currency, but I am very curios how it went from an idea to now being able to be used for purchases, and given a value in relation to USD.

Me and a group of friends cannot come up with an idea for something to be used for transactions and then have that idea be able to transform into a countries currency. We can trade amongst ourselves but there is no way we can give it a value to be used to trade it into dollars. There has to be some type of government involvement in order for bitcoin to have a value in relation to a nations currency.

My question is how is the original concept of bitcoin given a value in dollars? Does this mean there is significant government involvement in bitcoin?

Things are given value simply on Supply/Demand. First, people are taking a risk that Bitcoin will maintain any value at all by accepting it as a form of payment.

However, once we get past that, individuals are simply saying I value this product I'm producing at such a price and a certain amount of other people will value it at the same arbitrary price. At that price you have an equilibrium and enough people to institute a trade of bitcoin (or any other currency) for the product.

The difference between BitCoin and USD (for example) is BitCoin's "printing press" will eventually be turned off. That's built into the way the system works. USD (or another countries currency) on the other hand has no control on having the printing press turned off, other than the government arbitrarily determining to stop printing.

There's no government involvement backing up the value of bitcoin. In part, the exchange rate is driven by the amount of people using BitCoin, with the express knowledge that the printing press will be turned off eventually. And in another part with the way other currency values and commodity prices move relative to one another. People can freely exchange and trade currencies on the FOREX market. You have free markets determining the values of currencies relative to one another.

Honestly, I'm trying to explain something far to complex to state as clearly as possible. And I am in no way an expert on currency markets or the like. I'm just a business management major that's taken macroeconomics and microeconomics. The valuing of a currency has many constantly moving, complex parts. I think you head would explode at the first watching of a business network segment on currency trading.

Here's a CNBC video for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSodzBHN7Y4



Great answer....here are some good links...

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/shelling-out/

http://web.archive.org/web/20070618142414/http://szabo.best.vwh.net/scarce.html

http://szabo.best.vwh.net/ttps.html

http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2008/04/bit-gold-markets.html?m=1

http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2011/05/bitcoin-what-took-ye-so-long.html?m=1

http://unenumerated.blogspot.ca/2008/06/commodity-hysteria-overview.html?m=1

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