How do you calculate house edge...? | Bitcointalksearch.org

iv4n

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Quote from: nullama on January 22, 2023, 04:26:46 PM

Quote from: iv4n on January 22, 2023, 06:12:29 AM

...

Yeah, at the end of the day it's the odds (luck) that determine how often you're going to win.

Casino games are made so that you feel like you're winning even though in real money terms you're not. For example you see an amazing display, lights, shows, etc, but you just made a tiny amount of money. So you feel like you're doing way better than reality, and continue playing.

As long as you don't bet more than what you're comfortable paying, it should be fine, and seem almost like paid entertainment.

If you spend more than what you thought you were comfortable paying, then you will most probably end in ruin.

Some time ago I ran into this term LDW for the first time, loss disguised as a win.

Quote

Slot machines are a particularly dangerous form of gambling because they are programmed with the most addictive form of VRRS schedule. Additionally, they are programmed to operate on a principle known as loss disguised as a win(LDW). This effect happens when a player is given a “win” of credits with a spin, but fewer credits than the original wager. The psychological effect is that these frequent wins keep the player engaged, despite a net loss.

Both the single-line slots (the traditional slots) and the more modern multi-line slots are programmed to give LDW “wins” in a specific payback percentage, but it is always less than 100% and certainly not above 100%, meaning that the house always wins. There are no “hot” slot machines, only “cold” ones.

From my experience, I can relate to this... When things go down they go down, there are wins here and there, but the balance is just getting lower. It's like that with all lucky-based games with any RTP & house edge. I have wins and losses on both, and I can't say that in "reality" RTP & house edge means a lot. But that's me and just my experience after millions of bets in all sorts of lucky-based games.

Mr. Magkaisa

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- Hello mate, I'm not sure if the house edge is calculated the same in crypto gambling because I'm sure that there is a percentage that reduces the house edge for every gambler who bets on their website platform.

There are several links here that show and explain how to perform their computation depending on the games the gambler chooses.

Calculation of the House Edge

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Quote from: danherbias07 on January 15, 2023, 06:51:04 PM

Quote from: libert19 on January 13, 2023, 02:15:03 AM

...if it isn't stated by casino beforehand, and sometimes it's stated only for dice and not for other games (examples being card games, roulette, slots), in such cases how is it to be calculated?

Stake.com has a fairness calculator.

But I don't usually check that because I cannot even understand the numbers in it. I am one of those guys that don't care about these critical details and just go directly to gambling.
I don't know how to calculate the house edge although, in provability checking, I do it manually by doing 10 rounds per seed. But it doesn't end up with my expectation most of the time because sometimes I win in a good streak or vice versa.
Maybe contacting support will be the easiest way to get an explanation.

Verifying seed will take a lot of time and effort, so it is hardest way to figure out the house edge of Stake originals I believe. Asking from support will lead to a similar answer: House edge is calculated in billions of bets which is done by special software. You can rent the hash power of high-end graphics cards online to test single seed for approximate house edge ratio. I am 99% sure house edge will be close to 98.9999% in most seeds. False advertisements mostly be done by casinos but they don't mention users have to bet over a billion bets to get a perfect house edge %.

nullama

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Quote from: iv4n on January 22, 2023, 06:12:29 AM

~snip~
I think the same, and I gamble for decades already. When it comes to lucky-based games like slots, in-house, and live games it's all about luck! From my experience even with the lowest possible house edge there are long losing streaks on each of these games. Of course, high-volatility games can be even worse, +100 dead spins are something pretty normal.
So from my experience is exactly as you say, the numbers don't mean much if we are simply unlucky!

Yeah, at the end of the day it's the odds (luck) that determine how often you're going to win.

Casino games are made so that you feel like you're winning even though in real money terms you're not. For example you see an amazing display, lights, shows, etc, but you just made a tiny amount of money. So you feel like you're doing way better than reality, and continue playing.

As long as you don't bet more than what you're comfortable paying, it should be fine, and seem almost like paid entertainment.

If you spend more than what you thought you were comfortable paying, then you will most probably end in ruin.

iv4n

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Quote from: Yatsan on January 17, 2023, 09:51:07 AM

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I am one with the gamblers who are not checking the house edge simply because I don't bet that much. Either I win or lose; depends on my luck and analysis. I believe those people who care for such thing are the ones who gives more importance of what they are doing which is gambling in this case. They won't be wrong from doing so but no matter high high or low a house edge is, if you won't be lucky enough to win the game, then that would be fate right there. Let us say you are now aware of the edge against players; then what now? Choose other platform which has lower against its players? What if you're just unlucky? Then you'll lose still. Problem is gambler's mindset thinking that if edge is on the players, they'd generate more profit. But unfortunately, gambling does not simply work that way.

I think the same, and I gamble for decades already. When it comes to lucky-based games like slots, in-house, and live games it's all about luck! From my experience even with the lowest possible house edge there are long losing streaks on each of these games. Of course, high-volatility games can be even worse, +100 dead spins are something pretty normal.
So from my experience is exactly as you say, the numbers don't mean much if we are simply unlucky!

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Quote from: Yatsan on January 17, 2023, 09:51:07 AM

Quote from: danherbias07 on January 15, 2023, 06:51:04 PM

Quote from: libert19 on January 13, 2023, 02:15:03 AM

...if it isn't stated by casino beforehand, and sometimes it's stated only for dice and not for other games (examples being card games, roulette, slots), in such cases how is it to be calculated?

Stake.com has a fairness calculator.

But I don't usually check that because I cannot even understand the numbers in it. I am one of those guys that don't care about these critical details and just go directly to gambling.
I don't know how to calculate the house edge although, in provability checking, I do it manually by doing 10 rounds per seed. But it doesn't end up with my expectation most of the time because sometimes I win in a good streak or vice versa.
Maybe contacting support will be the easiest way to get an explanation.

I am one with the gamblers who are not checking the house edge simply because I don't bet that much. Either I win or lose; depends on my luck and analysis. I believe those people who care for such thing are the ones who gives more importance of what they are doing which is gambling in this case. They won't be wrong from doing so but no matter high high or low a house edge is, if you won't be lucky enough to win the game, then that would be fate right there. Let us say you are now aware of the edge against players; then what now? Choose other platform which has lower against its players? What if you're just unlucky? Then you'll lose still. Problem is gambler's mindset thinking that if edge is on the players, they'd generate more profit. But unfortunately, gambling does not simply work that way.

The house edge isn't the only factor, and I agree that luck plays a big part in gaming. However, calculating your prospective financial loss is made easier when you know the house edge. Do not mistake gaming for a method of financial support; I admire those who are successful at doing so, but I urge caution. There is only one of each, though. Overspending and the consequent financial strain can be mitigated to some extent by creating and keeping to a budget. To limit your losses, it's also crucial to know when to stop while you're ahead. You should know the dangers and play within your limits

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Quote from: nullama on January 21, 2023, 06:28:12 PM

It's basically one of the most important things to know when you play a game.

Really? Why?

Don't get me wrong, I know what HE is, and I recommend everyone who gambles to learn about gambling mathematics, but in casino games HE is always greater than 0, so in the very long term the tendency is to lose all your money, although in the short term you may have positive results, winning sessions. But come on, knowing if in a certain site the HE is 1% and in another one it is 2% is not so important for me.

Quote from: nullama on January 21, 2023, 06:28:12 PM

At least if you want to minimize the probability of losing all your money, or at least have a better chance to win something.

Most gamblers will probably just go to the one with the best lights or music, or whatever, independent of the maths behind them.

Maybe people prefer to bet on the 2% HE site because it has better software, more variety and better customer service. Then you also have to take into account that with promotions and cashback, maybe the 2% site gives you more and for your level of betting the HE is 0.5% and the one that gives you 1% with promotions and cashback is 0.8%.

nullama

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Quote from: decodx on January 21, 2023, 02:51:29 PM

In my opinion, it's important to understand the house edge for each game you play. Different casinos and different rules of the games can affect the house edge, and it may vary for different games and different variations of the same game.

I was once unpleasantly surprised when I realized that a game I had thought to be a simple variation of blackjack was actually much more complex than that. It turned out that the house edge of the variation was higher than regular blackjack, and I lost quite badly by not knowing how the game played before sitting down to play it! That's why it's important to read up on the rules of any game you play so that you can understand the odds and make an informed decision about whether or not it's worth your time.

It's basically one of the most important things to know when you play a game.

At least if you want to minimize the probability of losing all your money, or at least have a better chance to win something.

Most gamblers will probably just go to the one with the best lights or music, or whatever, independent of the maths behind them.

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Quote from: libert19 on January 13, 2023, 02:15:03 AM

...if it isn't stated by casino beforehand, and sometimes it's stated only for dice and not for other games (examples being card games, roulette, slots), in such cases how is it to be calculated?

Been going through the comments on the first page to learn about this too, but have not seen a definite answer or response, or maybe there is one I missed, someone can please point me to it..

This is something I've never really paid attention to or cared to know, even though I've been gambling for a while, I have learnt that the house edge is what determines the chances of a gambler winning in the game he or she is playing, the lower the house edge, the higher the possiblity of the gambler winning, but the higher the house edge, the lower the possibility of the player winning, I think this is something really important for every gambler to know, and it also seems like some casinos deliberately hide this information from non asking gamblers.

Saint-loup

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Quote from: libert19 on January 13, 2023, 02:15:03 AM

...if it isn't stated by casino beforehand, and sometimes it's stated only for dice and not for other games (examples being card games, roulette, slots), in such cases how is it to be calculated?

The house edge is basically the Expected Value for the casino of a game expressed in percentage of the player bet. https://math.info/Misc/House_Edge/
So if the EV of a game for the player is -0.25$ for a $1 bet. The house edge of the game is 25%.

Usually if a provider gives the house edge of one game it also gives the house edge of its other games. So which provider is doing that precisely? Because it's a little bit surprising. Anyway on some casino, like Sportsbet, Bitcasino, Livecasino or Stake you can always find a house edge or RTP below the screen of the game. The house edge equals 100%-RTP.
It's better to check the rules inside the game to find it, but if it's not written you can use the datas given by the casino. Sportsbet, Bitcasino, Livecasino are offering a live RTP feature that allows the players to see what house edge is currently gotten by adding up the bets won and lost by other players.

decodx

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In my opinion, it's important to understand the house edge for each game you play. Different casinos and different rules of the games can affect the house edge, and it may vary for different games and different variations of the same game.

I was once unpleasantly surprised when I realized that a game I had thought to be a simple variation of blackjack was actually much more complex than that. It turned out that the house edge of the variation was higher than regular blackjack, and I lost quite badly by not knowing how the game played before sitting down to play it! That's why it's important to read up on the rules of any game you play so that you can understand the odds and make an informed decision about whether or not it's worth your time.

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Quote from: Yatsan on January 17, 2023, 09:51:07 AM

What if you're just unlucky? Then you'll lose still. Problem is gambler's mindset thinking that if edge is on the players, they'd generate more profit. But unfortunately, gambling does not simply work that way.

Of course, if you are unlucky you can lose on any casino, but that has nothing to do with House Edge. The more you play, the more important this percentage becomes. Small differences of e.g. 51% and 51.5% are enough to get out as a loser or not, e.g. with 1000 bets.

To your second sentence: The edge is never on the side of the player, otherwise the house would be broke in no time. Even a house with 50% chance to win would have no chance to survive.

Yatsan

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Quote from: danherbias07 on January 15, 2023, 06:51:04 PM

Quote from: libert19 on January 13, 2023, 02:15:03 AM

...if it isn't stated by casino beforehand, and sometimes it's stated only for dice and not for other games (examples being card games, roulette, slots), in such cases how is it to be calculated?

Stake.com has a fairness calculator.

But I don't usually check that because I cannot even understand the numbers in it. I am one of those guys that don't care about these critical details and just go directly to gambling.
I don't know how to calculate the house edge although, in provability checking, I do it manually by doing 10 rounds per seed. But it doesn't end up with my expectation most of the time because sometimes I win in a good streak or vice versa.
Maybe contacting support will be the easiest way to get an explanation.

I am one with the gamblers who are not checking the house edge simply because I don't bet that much. Either I win or lose; depends on my luck and analysis. I believe those people who care for such thing are the ones who gives more importance of what they are doing which is gambling in this case. They won't be wrong from doing so but no matter high high or low a house edge is, if you won't be lucky enough to win the game, then that would be fate right there. Let us say you are now aware of the edge against players; then what now? Choose other platform which has lower against its players? What if you're just unlucky? Then you'll lose still. Problem is gambler's mindset thinking that if edge is on the players, they'd generate more profit. But unfortunately, gambling does not simply work that way.

danherbias07

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Quote from: libert19 on January 13, 2023, 02:15:03 AM

...if it isn't stated by casino beforehand, and sometimes it's stated only for dice and not for other games (examples being card games, roulette, slots), in such cases how is it to be calculated?

Stake.com has a fairness calculator.

But I don't usually check that because I cannot even understand the numbers in it. I am one of those guys that don't care about these critical details and just go directly to gambling.
I don't know how to calculate the house edge although, in provability checking, I do it manually by doing 10 rounds per seed. But it doesn't end up with my expectation most of the time because sometimes I win in a good streak or vice versa.
Maybe contacting support will be the easiest way to get an explanation.

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Quote from: chaser15 on January 15, 2023, 05:55:58 PM

Quote from: libert19 on January 13, 2023, 02:15:03 AM

...if it isn't stated by casino beforehand, and sometimes it's stated only for dice and not for other games (examples being card games, roulette, slots), in such cases how is it to be calculated?

May I ask for what purpose? It's just for verifying the fairness of the game?

My answer will be considered as another part of the discussion and not related technically to how house edge for slots or RTPs for slots, and roulettes, was being computed, but trust these game providers under reputable gambling sites that everything is really fair at both ends.

Not necessary to know things like that as long as you are playing on a well-established and reputable gambling site. Sometimes, a truly high expectation of winning big rises, especially for those confused about the real meaning and possible output of "over 95% RTP on slots", as an example.

Some players misinterpret RTP as the chance of winning which is why some of them are whining about not hitting for several bets. Like ending up in 15 Deadspin while the RTP stated that it is a 96% lol. Winning chance is different from a return to player and even different from hitting chance.

I do agree that it all ends up in trusting the gambling platform on their announced house edge, after all, it is quite too tasky to verify if the housed edge implemented by the casino is the same on what is stated on their website.

Quote from: nullama on January 15, 2023, 06:00:50 PM

It's a good idea to play mostly on games where the odds for the house are the smallest possible.

True many says that this will give the player a good return in the long run.

nullama

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Quote from: chaser15 on January 15, 2023, 05:55:58 PM

~snip~
May I ask for what purpose? It's just for verifying the fairness of the game?

My answer will be considered as another part of the discussion and not related technically to how house edge for slots or RTPs for slots, and roulettes, was being computed, but trust these game providers under reputable gambling sites that everything is really fair at both ends.

Not necessary to know things like that as long as you are playing on a well-established and reputable gambling site. Sometimes, a truly high expectation of winning big rises, especially for those confused about the real meaning and possible output of "over 95% RTP on slots", as an example.

I think it's reasonable to know the odds of the games you're playing.

That should really be one of the most important pieces of information for you to make a bet, but I think it's not that public.

It's a good idea to play mostly on games where the odds for the house are the smallest possible.

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Quote from: libert19 on January 13, 2023, 02:15:03 AM

...if it isn't stated by casino beforehand, and sometimes it's stated only for dice and not for other games (examples being card games, roulette, slots), in such cases how is it to be calculated?

May I ask for what purpose? It's just for verifying the fairness of the game?

My answer will be considered as another part of the discussion and not related technically to how house edge for slots or RTPs for slots, and roulettes, was being computed, but trust these game providers under reputable gambling sites that everything is really fair at both ends.

Not necessary to know things like that as long as you are playing on a well-established and reputable gambling site. Sometimes, a truly high expectation of winning big rises, especially for those confused about the real meaning and possible output of "over 95% RTP on slots", as an example.

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Quote from: AmoreJaz on January 14, 2023, 05:12:55 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: uneng on January 14, 2023, 04:44:35 PM

The casino has to provide what is the value of the house edge for their table games, like dice, roulette, plinko, mines, crash... I would contact support if I couldn't find this information anywhere.

Slots, on the other hand, are provided by third party companies, so you have to search for the RTP (return to player) percentage of each of them. So you deduct the RTP value from 100 and reach the house edge result. Example: RTP is 98,5%, so 100 - 98,5 = 1,5% house edge.

For pragmatic slots, house edge mentioned inside slot settings, users are able to check exactly set house edge with 2 clicks left below settings option. For other slot providers, checking slotcatalog.com is best idea, each slot has been listed on website has full details included max win, house edge, lines etc.

if you can't find it, worry about the casino you are playing with. i also don't think there are players who are actually calculating the house edge if it is not given on their page. it should be readily available to its players. if you will create a poll on this forum about players who are actually calculating HE, i don't think you will get a number.

True, I am one of those that are not calculating the house edge. Too many numbers to consider and the house edge is already declared by the casino on their FAQ and I believe is verified by the one who is giving out licenses, and besides, the result of luck based games is still random.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: uneng on January 14, 2023, 04:44:35 PM

The casino has to provide what is the value of the house edge for their table games, like dice, roulette, plinko, mines, crash... I would contact support if I couldn't find this information anywhere.

Slots, on the other hand, are provided by third party companies, so you have to search for the RTP (return to player) percentage of each of them. So you deduct the RTP value from 100 and reach the house edge result. Example: RTP is 98,5%, so 100 - 98,5 = 1,5% house edge.

For pragmatic slots, house edge mentioned inside slot settings, users are able to check exactly set house edge with 2 clicks left below settings option. For other slot providers, checking slotcatalog.com is best idea, each slot has been listed on website has full details included max win, house edge, lines etc.

I think Play N' Go enable different RTP depending on the casino's preference. Is that correct?

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: uneng on January 14, 2023, 04:44:35 PM

The casino has to provide what is the value of the house edge for their table games, like dice, roulette, plinko, mines, crash... I would contact support if I couldn't find this information anywhere.

Slots, on the other hand, are provided by third party companies, so you have to search for the RTP (return to player) percentage of each of them. So you deduct the RTP value from 100 and reach the house edge result. Example: RTP is 98,5%, so 100 - 98,5 = 1,5% house edge.

For pragmatic slots, house edge mentioned inside slot settings, users are able to check exactly set house edge with 2 clicks left below settings option. For other slot providers, checking slotcatalog.com is best idea, each slot has been listed on website has full details included max win, house edge, lines etc.

if you can't find it, worry about the casino you are playing with. i also don't think there are players who are actually calculating the house edge if it is not given on their page. it should be readily available to its players. if you will create a poll on this forum about players who are actually calculating HE, i don't think you will get a number.

uneng

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The casino has to provide what is the value of the house edge for their table games, like dice, roulette, plinko, mines, crash... I would contact support if I couldn't find this information anywhere.

Slots, on the other hand, are provided by third party companies, so you have to search for the RTP (return to player) percentage of each of them. So you deduct the RTP value from 100 and reach the house edge result. Example: RTP is 98,5%, so 100 - 98,5 = 1,5% house edge.

Topic: How do you calculate house edge...? (Read 323 times)