How do you feel about businesses that stop accepting Bitcoin? - page 2.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on May 23, 2019, 10:57:06 AM

Quote from: mk4 on May 23, 2019, 09:11:48 AM

Take note, these services are businesses; not charities.

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on May 23, 2019, 09:12:39 AM

I also understand the decision to continue accepting bitcoin is a business decision at the end of the day

Pretty much this. There is a small, local company who I occasionally shop from who started accepting bitcoin directly (i.e. not via BitPay or similar) around 18 months ago during the height of the bull run, and stopped taking it at the end of last year, just after the crash down to ~$3,000. I spoke to the owner about it the next time I was in and tried to pay with bitcoin - she told me it simply wasn't worth the hassle for her anymore. She was having to dedicate time and money to training staff on how it works, curating their wallets, cashing out, sorting out taxes, sometimes dealing with refunds, etc. At peak prices, it was generating enough income to make that worthwhile she told me, but that simply wasn't the case during the bear market.

We can't expect businesses to do something that isn't profitable just because we want them to. If we want them to accept bitcoin permanently, then we simply need more people to want to pay in bitcoin.

It sounds like that business owner was still cashing out, just not via BitPay. They might have been relying on the capital gains associated with the ever increasing price in 2017 as a means of additional profit associated with accepting bitcoin.

I have both met and read about some business owners who use the acceptance of bitcoin as a means to purchase bitcoin at what they consider "low" prices. These business owners probably also generated some additional amount of sales from their bitcoin acceptance.

A business owner ultimately needs to pay for their inventory, payroll and other bills out of their revenue. If a business could pay for some of these expenses in bitcoin, I believe more businesses would accept bitcoin, and would probably push their customers to pay in bitcoin.

Quote from: eternalgloom on May 23, 2019, 11:04:36 AM

Ah yeah, Expedia, I've had a pretty bad experience with them. Last year I was planning a trip and wanted to pay part of that trip with Bitcoin, only to find out that Expedia stopped accepting Bitcoin.

I am not aware of any business you can buy plane tickets with bitcoin, although you can use gyft to buy gift cards for various airlines.

exstasie

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Quote from: eternalgloom on May 23, 2019, 04:19:55 AM

Remember when Steam decided to accept Bitcoin, only to roll back their decision later on?
Does stuff like that have any effect on your view of said business?

It sucks, but it's their business. That's their prerogative. If it's a hassle for them or the volume is too low to warrant the trouble, I think it's fair enough to pull the plug on Bitcoin payments.

I feel like the pendulum is swinging back towards increased merchant onboarding though. Flexa just brought on a bunch of big retailers like Starbucks and Whole Foods, and I also saw AT&T is now accepting BTC through Bitpay. This last couple weeks has seen a huge wave of merchant adoption.

coin-investor

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My experience is on Fiverr, I used to hire a lot of people here because they use Bitcoin and I don't have or not using PayPal anymore, but after they take down Bitcoin I have to shift to Bitcointalk services section, or ask a friend who has paypal to use his paypal to make a transactions, but still hoping that they will accept Bitcoin again.

bitmover

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Quote from: gentlemand on May 23, 2019, 01:49:46 PM

A car or a house is pretty darned visible.

You don't need to buy a house.we are talking about stores that accept BTC. You could spend BTC on supermarkets like Walmart for example, every week. That would not be visible.

Quote

Bitcoin fans still seem to be painfully naive about this stuff in the main, though some are lucky enough to live in places where it barely registers either in the amount of tax charged or the laws around it.

In Brazil there is no tax if you never convert your BTC to Fiat. Taxes are paid here when you cash out. If you never cash out, zero taxes. .
I thought most places were like this.

Edit: my mistake. Made a small research now. You have to pay taxes for that too . Sorry. But, hard to trace. I would not report

gentlemand

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Quote from: eternalgloom on May 23, 2019, 01:45:29 PM

I suspect he's talking about it being less easy to trace. It has crossed my mind as well, to just buy some high value item instead of cashing out to my bank account.
In the end, I do report everything to the tax man though Tongue

A car or a house is pretty darned visible. You could buy a pile of gold, but most gold places will report you. Once you have your high value item you may want to get rid of it in which case you're more than likely going to have to accept a large amount of money into your bank account. In most places of course tax is taken on trust but you never know how or where you might trigger something.

Bitcoin fans still seem to be painfully naive about this stuff in the main, though some are lucky enough to live in places where it barely registers either in the amount of tax charged or the laws around it.

eternalgloom

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Quote from: gentlemand on May 23, 2019, 12:37:01 PM

Quote from: bitmover on May 23, 2019, 11:47:59 AM

Thinking about taxes, it would be efficient to buy lots of stuff with BTC, this way you can avoid paying taxes when converting to Fiat.

Where I'm at just because you've bought something without converting to fiat does not mean you're magically immune from the tax on the difference between the price you paid for the BTC and the price you spent it at.

I suspect he's talking about it being less easy to trace. It has crossed my mind as well, to just buy some high value item instead of cashing out to my bank account.
In the end, I do report everything to the tax man though Tongue

ethereumhunter

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I don't have similar stories, but from your stories, I think it depends on the business itself whether they still accepting bitcoin or will stop from accepting bitcoin. We cannot force them to still using bitcoin as the payment, and I think they will research what type of payment system that will good for them. I think it's not a problem for us at least, and we could still withdraw the bitcoin first into a local fiat then we can use the fiat to buy something.

gentlemand

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Quote from: bitmover on May 23, 2019, 11:47:59 AM

Thinking about taxes, it would be efficient to buy lots of stuff with BTC, this way you can avoid paying taxes when converting to Fiat.

Where I'm at just because you've bought something without converting to fiat does not mean you're magically immune from the tax on the difference between the price you paid for the BTC and the price you spent it at.

sheenshane

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For me, I can actually understand that not all of the business models and industries are compatible with the bitcoin. So accepting bitcoin as one of the payment methods would only give them some complications with their sales, accounting, and auditing.

I used to admire Lamborghini as they were accepting bitcoin for payment from their units. If I were given a chance to hodl a large amount of Bitcoin, I would have bought from the Lamborghini. If there will be a cryptocurrency that can prove and provide stability, then there is a big chance that the Bitcoin will be accepted in each and every business model.

bitmover

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on May 23, 2019, 10:57:06 AM

We can't expect businesses to do something that isn't profitable just because we want them to. If we want them to accept bitcoin permanently, then we simply need more people to want to pay in bitcoin.

That's the point.

Do people really want to pay with BTC, or just want to accumulate BTC?

Thinking about taxes, it would be efficient to buy lots of stuff with BTC, this way you can avoid paying taxes when converting to Fiat.

Quote from: eternalgloom on May 23, 2019, 11:04:36 AM

Then again, there are businesses that keep accepting Bitcoin despite all the negative aspects, so when they do that, I'll give them some extra support when I can.

This is good. And probably those business are receiving free market. It's almost an investment, if your customers are interested in BTC (like a computer or game store)

gentlemand

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I have no feelings on the matter. Businesses exist to make money. If accepting BTC doesn't make them money then they should get rid of it.

And no way will I pay more or accept worse or less convenient service just for the honour of paying in crypto. I ain't no charity case and crypto won't progress because of a bunch of saps subsidising it.

eternalgloom

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on May 23, 2019, 11:30:37 AM

Quote from: eternalgloom on May 23, 2019, 11:04:36 AM

Then again, there are businesses that keep accepting Bitcoin despite all the negative aspects, so when they do that, I'll give them some extra support when I can.

Agreed. I have talked before on here about a vendor at my local weekly farmers market who started to accept bitcoin, and has continued to do so through the recent bear market. Prior to this, I visited the farmers market about once a month, and bought from a variety of vendors - their produce is always better than the supermarkets obviously, but it is a little bit out of my way unless I have another reason to head up that neck of the woods, and so I didn't often make the journey. Now though, I'm down there probably 3 weekends a month, and I'm almost exclusively buying from the one vendor who accepts bitcoin. I'm happy to trade a little inconvenience to support him, and I'm always hopeful the other vendors might take note of the extra bitcoin business he gets.

Yup, I definitely act the same. Heck, back in 2014 I started purchasing beef jerky from someone who was selling it here on the forum.
They had beef jerky that wasn't at all available where I live, so I didn't mind paying a small premium for it.

I'm all for supporting small businesses, especially when they accept Bitcoin.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: eternalgloom on May 23, 2019, 11:04:36 AM

Then again, there are businesses that keep accepting Bitcoin despite all the negative aspects, so when they do that, I'll give them some extra support when I can.

Agreed. I have talked before on here about a vendor at my local weekly farmers market who started to accept bitcoin, and has continued to do so through the recent bear market. Prior to this, I visited the farmers market about once a month, and bought from a variety of vendors - their produce is always better than the supermarkets obviously, but it is a little bit out of my way unless I have another reason to head up that neck of the woods, and so I didn't often make the journey. Now though, I'm down there probably 3 weekends a month, and I'm almost exclusively buying from the one vendor who accepts bitcoin. I'm happy to trade a little inconvenience to support him, and I'm always hopeful the other vendors might take note of the extra bitcoin business he gets.

eternalgloom

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on May 23, 2019, 10:57:06 AM

Quote from: mk4 on May 23, 2019, 09:11:48 AM

Take note, these services are businesses; not charities.

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on May 23, 2019, 09:12:39 AM

I also understand the decision to continue accepting bitcoin is a business decision at the end of the day

Pretty much this. There is a small, local company who I occasionally shop from who started accepting bitcoin directly (i.e. not via BitPay or similar) around 18 months ago during the height of the bull run, and stopped taking it at the end of last year, just after the crash down to ~$3,000. I spoke to the owner about it the next time I was in and tried to pay with bitcoin - she told me it simply wasn't worth the hassle for her anymore. She was having to dedicate time and money to training staff on how it works, curating their wallets, cashing out, sorting out taxes, sometimes dealing with refunds, etc. At peak prices, it was generating enough income to make that worthwhile she told me, but that simply wasn't the case during the bear market.

We can't expect businesses to do something that isn't profitable just because we want them to. If we want them to accept bitcoin permanently, then we simply need more people to want to pay in bitcoin.

Fair enough, I definitely understand that it might just not be in businesses best interest in keep accepting Bitcoin, but on the other hand, I do find it pretty telling that they'd throw in the towel so soon.
In the case of Steam, I think they only lasted a couple of months.

Granted, the main reason why they stopped accepting Bitcoin, was because of the many support requests due to the increased amount of fees.

Then again, there are businesses that keep accepting Bitcoin despite all the negative aspects, so when they do that, I'll give them some extra support when I can.

Quote from: LeGaulois on May 23, 2019, 08:19:33 AM

I used to spend some bitcoins with Fiverr until it stopped to use it. Well no big deal, another site get my money, no wrong feeling. Enterprises aren't really interested in BTC itself it's rather to respond to demand and/or to increase their sales. Very few are real BTC enthusiasts.

What you never know, and that's a shame, is why they leave Bitcoin once it's introduced. It cannot be a matter of volatility because, as I said, most of them convert into fiats. Is this a lack of knowledge, no adequate infrastructure or local laws.
Although on the user end everything is done to be easy to use on the business end there is still a lot to do.

Oh yeah completely forgot about Fiverr, good that you mention it.
don't use them a lot anymore, but that's for other reasons.

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on May 23, 2019, 09:12:39 AM

Expedia used to accept bitcoin and no longer does.

As much as I like to spend my coins directly to businesses, most businesses that accept bitcoin instantly cash out via their payment processor.

I also understand the decision to continue accepting bitcoin is a business decision at the end of the day and I cannot fault a business who declines to continue accepting bitcoin.

Ah yeah, Expedia, I've had a pretty bad experience with them. Last year I was planning a trip and wanted to pay part of that trip with Bitcoin, only to find out that Expedia stopped accepting Bitcoin.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: mk4 on May 23, 2019, 09:11:48 AM

Take note, these services are businesses; not charities.

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on May 23, 2019, 09:12:39 AM

I also understand the decision to continue accepting bitcoin is a business decision at the end of the day

Pretty much this. There is a small, local company who I occasionally shop from who started accepting bitcoin directly (i.e. not via BitPay or similar) around 18 months ago during the height of the bull run, and stopped taking it at the end of last year, just after the crash down to ~$3,000. I spoke to the owner about it the next time I was in and tried to pay with bitcoin - she told me it simply wasn't worth the hassle for her anymore. She was having to dedicate time and money to training staff on how it works, curating their wallets, cashing out, sorting out taxes, sometimes dealing with refunds, etc. At peak prices, it was generating enough income to make that worthwhile she told me, but that simply wasn't the case during the bear market.

We can't expect businesses to do something that isn't profitable just because we want them to. If we want them to accept bitcoin permanently, then we simply need more people to want to pay in bitcoin.

PrimeNumber7

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Expedia used to accept bitcoin and no longer does.

As much as I like to spend my coins directly to businesses, most businesses that accept bitcoin instantly cash out via their payment processor.

I also understand the decision to continue accepting bitcoin is a business decision at the end of the day and I cannot fault a business who declines to continue accepting bitcoin.

mk4

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Businesses are simply going to integrate bitcoin payments only if they think that enough people will use it, and benefit them in the end. Take note, these services are businesses; not charities. Most businesses removed BTC payments either because only a very small percentage are using them, or because of the transaction speeds, or both. Which are very understandable reasons for removing BTC payments.

LeGaulois

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I used to spend some bitcoins with Fiverr until it stopped to use it. Well no big deal, another site get my money, no wrong feeling. Enterprises aren't really interested in BTC itself it's rather to respond to demand and/or to increase their sales. Very few are real BTC enthusiasts.

What you never know, and that's a shame, is why they leave Bitcoin once it's introduced. It cannot be a matter of volatility because, as I said, most of them convert into fiats. Is this a lack of knowledge, no adequate infrastructure or local laws.
Although on the user end everything is done to be easy to use on the business end there is still a lot to do.

eternalgloom

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Remember when Steam decided to accept Bitcoin, only to roll back their decision later on?
Does stuff like that have any effect on your view of said business?

Or the other way around, do you look at a business more positively when they've kept accepting Bitcoin, also during hard times (bear markets, high fees, etc.)?

For me, it has kinda altered my view of Steam for example, I feel it was kind of a cop out when they decided to stop accepting Bitcoin payments.

Also, my mobile provider in Belgium once accepted Bitcoin (Mobile Vikings), but then they were taken over by another company, who then removed Bitcoin payments.
That caused me to switch providers, not just because of that though, the other company gave way worse service.

Now, Takeaway.com on the other hand has accepted Bitcoin from the beginning and never stopped accepting it afaik.
I tend to order more from there because of this, I have this tradition where I order a bunch of pizza from them on Bitcoin Pizza Day, paying with Bitcoin of course.

How about you, do you have any similar stories?

Topic: How do you feel about businesses that stop accepting Bitcoin? - page 2. (Read 469 times)