How does a whale sell its huge amount of bitcoins and change them into fiats? - page 2.

Adbitco

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Quote from: Becassine on June 26, 2023, 07:39:18 PM

Hello,

From what I read, someone who sells btc sometimes has trouble receiving the fiats in its bank account. If the sum is large, the bank turns on all its red lights.

These sets of people often or alway uses a business and a company account to sell out their bitcoin to fiat in larger quantities.
However, there are different types of bank account which i think for you to deposit a higher amount of money you must need current or company account to send out money instead of using a savings or students account to pull out large amount of money. Company account doesn't go into questioning that much and are free to transfer and receive a higher amount.

Lucius

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Quote from: Becassine on June 26, 2023, 09:49:47 PM

That's my question. A person who lost his private keys for years and recovers them. Maybe he mined btc or he won btc with a faucet, how can he prove all that after 10 years ?

Ownership can be proved in a very simple way, and that is by signing a message with one or more public BTC addresses. After that, he has to find out the process of paying capital gains tax, and then he can sell his BTC without any problems.

If I found 10 BTC and wanted to sell them all I would have to do is submit a tax return and explain when and in what way I acquired that BTC, and for all crypto assets acquired before 2016 I do not pay any tax (local law). I don't think this kind of thing is a problem, at least not in countries where BTC is not declared illegal or if it is not acquired illegally.

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Quote from: Becassine on June 26, 2023, 07:39:18 PM

From what I read, someone who sells btc sometimes has trouble receiving the fiats in its bank account. If the sum is large, the bank turns on all its red lights. I guess it's not a problem for someone famous, but for an ordinary citizen, how it happens if he lives modestly, recovers his private keys that he lost 10 years ago and finds himself with millions?

For me poker player, has almost the perfect answer to this post. Additionally, before anyone can get a certain amount of fiats that can cause red light alert whether ordinary citizen or famous most have at least knowledge of money management and the day to day running of his or her residence. So if any case of this nature should emerge, it most be the persons lack of application of knowledge ( WISDOM) of money or lack of knowledge of his or her residence. Thou this case depends on individuals view.

Litzki1990

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There are some banks that accept bitcoins directly by accepting bitcoins they give fiats money to customers but not all countries have such banking services. There are some countries where the banks of the countries are far from accepting bitcoins and there are various negative comments about bitcoins, then how do the people of those countries convert huge amount of btc into fiats money. In this case, people from all those countries can use the P2P system of different exchanges or convert their BTCs into fiats by buying and selling with different members.

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I think it depends on the person's financial history and background. If a person is known to have a successful business, big money being in and out of the account won't be suspicious for the bank. The same goes for a person who is officially employed and receives a very high monthly salary, or someone who does grant-based work that also provides a lot of money from official clean sources. If a person's officially unemployed but suddenly receives a ton of money from an unrecognized source, that can raise red flags for the bank. But if we're talking about whales, that means we're talking about very rich people. Of course, there's a chance they are only Bitcoin rich, but in that case there's an option to pay taxes and get the profits. If you're a whale, you can comfortably afford to pay taxes because you'll still be left with a fortune.

Becassine

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on June 27, 2023, 04:31:11 AM

Quote from: Becassine on June 26, 2023, 07:39:18 PM

Hello,

From what I read, someone who sells btc sometimes has trouble receiving the fiats in its bank account. If the sum is large, the bank turns on all its red lights. I guess it's not a problem for someone famous, but for an ordinary citizen, how it happens if he lives modestly, recovers his private keys that he lost 10 years ago and finds himself with millions?

I will like to pretend as if this happened to me, I don't normally leave a large amount of money in my bank account and I use a private bank not the public banks that belongs to the government, I can change over 20,000$ to my native Fiat currency and I don't see anything wrong in doing so, the only time to expect problem is if the bank figure out that you are into crypto investment while there is a ban on crypto in the country.

Even if I have a very large amount of money in Bitcoin, I won't be stupid enough to convert the whole money into Fiat and send them into my bank account, my money is safer in BTC or USDT than my bank anyway.

Why would anyone do that? To show off? If you want to build a house you can't build it in a day, so take your time to use a certain amount to continue the house project every month, what could you possibly need the large amount of money for if you convert every thing into Fiat? It makes not sense.

I was thinking that this could be frustrating perhaps for someone who is super happy to find his private keys after so many years and who thinks that he has more than enough to buy a house but finds himself a little stuck because he cannot not buy his house in BTC or repatriate his funds to buy one.

slaman29

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As some people mentioned above, whales just go through OTC. Less hassle, better rates, and bulk selling without even needing to go past anyone except the OTC, who usually does face to face KYC for big deals.

Also, I heard that whales who do use exchanges make sure they have a private deal first, and exchanges just make the exchange OTC anyway.

P2P seems legit before when you had Localbitcoins but I think now volume is very hard to meet whales demands.

Crypt0Gore

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Quote from: Becassine on June 26, 2023, 07:39:18 PM

Hello,

From what I read, someone who sells btc sometimes has trouble receiving the fiats in its bank account. If the sum is large, the bank turns on all its red lights. I guess it's not a problem for someone famous, but for an ordinary citizen, how it happens if he lives modestly, recovers his private keys that he lost 10 years ago and finds himself with millions?

I will like to pretend as if this happened to me, I don't normally leave a large amount of money in my bank account and I use a private bank not the public banks that belongs to the government, I can change over 20,000$ to my native Fiat currency and I don't see anything wrong in doing so, the only time to expect problem is if the bank figure out that you are into crypto investment while there is a ban on crypto in the country.

Even if I have a very large amount of money in Bitcoin, I won't be stupid enough to convert the whole money into Fiat and send them into my bank account, my money is safer in BTC or USDT than my bank anyway.

Why would anyone do that? To show off? If you want to build a house you can't build it in a day, so take your time to use a certain amount to continue the house project every month, what could you possibly need the large amount of money for if you convert every thing into Fiat? It makes not sense.

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Quote from: Poker Player on June 26, 2023, 09:58:11 PM

We have discussed this many times in the Legal section of the forum and the conclusion is that the best thing to do would be to hire a professional specialized in these matters to advise you, as what you can do will depend on the legislation where you live.

It's not necessary to hire a professional because there's a chance you might get a problem after that. The professional might force you to give him huge fees and threat you if you not do it or they will try to manipulate and make you always follow their words.

Based on the @OP story, those ordinary citizen just need to split his Bitcoin into few wallets and only cash out from little to big, not sell in once time. Although the chainalysis can track all of his addresses, but most of the time bank don't bother to check it.

EarnOnVictor

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Quote from: Becassine on June 26, 2023, 07:39:18 PM

From what I read, someone who sells btc sometimes has trouble receiving the fiats in its bank account. If the sum is large, the bank turns on all its red lights. I guess it's not a problem for someone famous, but for an ordinary citizen, how it happens if he lives modestly, recovers his private keys that he lost 10 years ago and finds himself with millions?

What any whale should be concerned about is the legitimacy of that BTC, if it's not bought/arranged through illegal means, then it's a go. It's, however, not uncommon that banks flag accounts, but it would be for a little while if you have all your proofs provided to them, it's as simple as that.

While some that would want to receive a very huge amount could notify their banks earlier and provide proof to avoid delay. It's all business for banks, they are only being careful of what to tell regulators, and if you are detailed, it's no issue for them.

xSkylarx

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The only way that the whale can convert his BTC into his own fiat is by gradually converting it monthly, because if it is done daily, that is easy to detect by banks or any platform that you are planning to exchange, unless you are paying someone to use their identity or use their bank to transfer those funds, so that it will be distributed and not easily detected. But it should be done monthly because the limit was detected on a monthly basis, but I am not really sure if they will be able to detect the total yearly incoming on your account. That is the only way you can convert it without any detection, but I am still not 100% sure as I haven't tried it.

Z390

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You are stupid if you convert a high amount of money that can raise questions into your bank account, what do you expect? Your account will be frozen and you will have to prove that this money is not fraud or illegal money.

There is one way you can afford this, gradually change the asset into Fiat, deposit only amounts that won't create any suspicious attention, assuming you have 10 BTC, 0.5BTC- 1BTC is enough to start whatever you want to do with money in the real life.

Some cryptic whales are not big company owners or popular people, they get a lot of Bitcoin because they bought them cheap and some accumulated Bitcoin through mining years ago, those people are treated as normal people in banks, so they carefully convert a ration of their Bitcoin for Fiat.

DapanasFruit

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Nobody here is worrying how one whale can be turning his/her BTC into fiat and not be caught red-handed by glaring authorities (yes, of course, the conversion can be done slowly so as to never reach the red flag level). Now, I think the big program is NOT having enough Bitcoin on someone's wallet that can be sold once there can be a big bull run soon - that is when BTC will breach the $60K level and then get into the 7-digit zone. I am expecting that there can be a big wave of interest with BTC coming from both institutional and retail investors so better watch out for that and continue holding your BTC guys!

Becassine

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on June 27, 2023, 03:21:01 AM

Quote from: Becassine on June 27, 2023, 03:05:02 AM

Unfortunately your remark makes me think that it is the people who have the most money who also want to avoid taxes the most. It's really too bad, what's the point of having so much money ? In fact, I was thinking above all of the average citizen who could be accused of money laundering when he is innocent. Otherwise yes thank you for the answers which advises a tax lawyer, it is obvious, I had not even thought of it.

You know, imagine a scenario where you actually find 10 BTC in an old wallet, you sell it, and you want to buy a dream house for your family with it, but... you step into a higher tax bracket and the government takes 60% of it...
so you put it in your bank account and decide that you will earn the rest in 10-15 years and buy your dream house than ... nothing further from the truth, because during these 15 years 80% of what is left will be eaten up by inflation ...
I see it as stealing... but when proposing a tax advisor and a lawyer, I did not mean only reduce taxation, I also meant countries where, due to the lack of clear regulations, it is actually difficult to withdraw a larger sum without being left to the individual interpretation of a jealous official.

As for the purpose of having lots of money by avoiding too much taxation, I'll tell you that I'd rather pay less tax and put the surplus into local soup kitchens for the poor or charity for sick children than to line the pockets of corrupt politicians.

Seen like that, indeed you are right on all counts. Wink

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: Becassine on June 27, 2023, 03:05:02 AM

Unfortunately your remark makes me think that it is the people who have the most money who also want to avoid taxes the most. It's really too bad, what's the point of having so much money ? In fact, I was thinking above all of the average citizen who could be accused of money laundering when he is innocent. Otherwise yes thank you for the answers which advises a tax lawyer, it is obvious, I had not even thought of it.

You know, imagine a scenario where you actually find 10 BTC in an old wallet, you sell it, and you want to buy a dream house for your family with it, but... you step into a higher tax bracket and the government takes 60% of it...
so you put it in your bank account and decide that you will earn the rest in 10-15 years and buy your dream house than ... nothing further from the truth, because during these 15 years 80% of what is left will be eaten up by inflation ...
I see it as stealing... but when proposing a tax advisor and a lawyer, I did not mean only reduce taxation, I also meant countries where, due to the lack of clear regulations, it is actually difficult to withdraw a larger sum without being left to the individual interpretation of a jealous official.

As for the purpose of having lots of money by avoiding too much taxation, I'll tell you that I'd rather pay less tax and put the surplus into local soup kitchens for the poor or charity for sick children than to line the pockets of corrupt politicians.

Becassine

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on June 27, 2023, 12:59:36 AM

Just like others said. Going yolo is the worse thing you can do. Hire professional lawyer and tax advisor. A good tax advisor will not only legally limit the tax to be paid on such an amount, but also advice you how to do it as painless as possible, because perhaps for millions suddenly found in a long-forgotten bitcoin wallet, it would be better to go to a tax haven for six months for a beautiful holiday combined with a change of tax residence.
You can also consult various banks beforehand and ask if they have a problem with such a deposit.

Unfortunately your remark makes me think that it is the people who have the most money who also want to avoid taxes the most. It's really too bad, what's the point of having so much money ? In fact, I was thinking above all of the average citizen who could be accused of money laundering when he is innocent. Otherwise yes thank you for the answers which advises a tax lawyer, it is obvious, I had not even thought of it.

Sim_card

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Since the person is a common citizen,he need to transfer his bitcoin bit by bit to an exchange and from the to his bank through P2P, and make sure that he cashes out every little transaction that he did. Repeatedly, he will be able to convert the million btc to fiat. Since he is a common citizen, he can't do it once to avoid any suspicious act. There is no hurry in life that is why he needs to take it bit by bit,after all he is the owner of the bitcoin. If he is not greedy and needs that cash in bulk,then he needs to consult a professional specialist for advice,if bitcoin is legal in that country.

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Quote from: Becassine on June 26, 2023, 07:39:18 PM

I guess it's not a problem for someone famous, but for an ordinary citizen, how it happens if he lives modestly, recovers his private keys that he lost 10 years ago and finds himself with millions?

If Bitcoin is illegal in your country then there might be a problem and Bank can detect suspicious activity. So the best option to send it to a trusted centralized exchange and convert it to stable coins. If you need fiat then just trade with P2P option.
And I don't think an Ordinary citizen need all of his million dollars at a single time. He can secure his funds by buying stable coins and storing in a non custodial wallet. Then he can follow this P2P procedure again and again to convert it to fiat.

Issa56

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Quote from: Becassine on June 26, 2023, 07:39:18 PM

Hello,

From what I read, someone who sells btc sometimes has trouble receiving the fiats in its bank account. If the sum is large, the bank turns on all its red lights. I guess it's not a problem for someone famous, but for an ordinary citizen, how it happens if he lives modestly, recovers his private keys that he lost 10 years ago and finds himself with millions?

In country if a huge amount of money is received, then the banks are going to freeze your account which you will be invited to defend the source of the money, but if scenario like this can happen, all what I will do is converting my bitcoin to fiat gradually, since all accounts in my country is having limit, if you haven't exceeded the limit, then they wont be able to freeze your account, I will make sure i don't go beyond my limit, after spend the money I withdraw in my account, then i will convert another bitcoin to fiat. If you can be doing it like that the banks wont be able to do anything with your account, but immediately you withdraw everything at once, then you will have to visit the bank and explain your source of income, and in my country the central bank have given all other commercial banks the permission to ban all accounts that are connected to crypt currency activities.

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Quote from: pooya87 on June 27, 2023, 12:22:47 AM

It depends a lot on the country and their local regulations involving bitcoin and sometimes the bank that they are using. This is not something global, some countries don't have nasty banks that would just shut down your account if you withdraw even a tiny amount of fiat from a bitcoin exchange, some others do.

You don't dare mention you have a huge amount of bitcoin in my country because the government holds a negative view of the currency. Within a few minutes, the police and other law agencies will start monitoring and tracing your account and even your location. Using exchanges will also be risky because the money will still have to be transferred to your account which also raises a red flag. P2p transactions will be good if the other party is trusted and willing to pay in cash.

Exchanging the coin gradually is another option but the funds in the bank account will still increase to attract suspicion. The best option will be to get professional advice from an experienced and trustworthy financial or investment expert. They are skillful in handling such issues if you can pay for the services. I highlighted trustworthiness to avoid engaging a dubious company that can cause more harm. I am sure that when I get to that bridge, I will crossover.

Topic: How does a whale sell its huge amount of bitcoins and change them into fiats? - page 2. (Read 373 times)