How does Indian crypto exchange survive?

TheUltraElite

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Quote from: kentrolla on January 17, 2024, 03:07:02 PM

There needs to be some discussion between representatives from these exchanges and relevant authorities from RBI/Indian government to sort this out.

These talks are becoming one sided, they are happening from the exchange owners but little response is coming from the RBI/government.

Take a look at this news article National Startup Day: CoinDCX Chief Posts Earnest Appeal to India’s Govt, Web3 Community

They are literally begging the government to take a move, but the other side is only speculating and passing comments. This backward growth of civilization is found in India among other countries but I hope they understand this soon.

kentrolla

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Quote from: avikz on January 15, 2024, 12:41:19 PM

Quote from: kentrolla on January 04, 2024, 12:54:51 PM

Quote from: avikz on January 04, 2024, 12:30:39 PM

Quote from: kentrolla on January 04, 2024, 10:14:48 AM

I have often seen that trading volume has been reduced by more than 90% in Indian exchanges after the draconian tax implemented for trading and users have switched to international crypto exchanges but how does Indian exchange still make money or survive? Are they still managing with the profits they earned all these year? Some have shit down operations and some has laid off their employees but will there be any changes to the regulations? Even exchange owners are afraid of speak out against the current regime fearing repercussions but if things don't change them once booming Indian Crypto exchange industry will die a slow death. What are your thoughts on this?

Just an articles posted fortnight ago in this regards -
https://www.firstpost.com/tech/indian-crypto-exchange-wazirxs-trading-volume-falls-by-90-per-cent-as-regulatory-delays-continue-13529432.html

Indian government paved way for the Indian cryptocurrency exchange to survive. One of the recent news is that the IT ministry has decided to block 9 foreign based crypto exchanges in India.

https://www.indiatoday.in/technology/news/story/india-to-ban-urls-of-9-crypto-exchanges-including-binance-for-non-compliance-with-anti-money-laundering-law-2481870-2023-12-29

So it will force the users to shift to Indian exchanges sooner or later. If there's no choice given to the users, what else they can do!

It's not called paving way for Indian exchanges but rather stopping users from trading because no one would like to pay those exorbitant tax amount for every trade when they can barely make profit by paying such hefty charges. These unnecessary restrictions will only lead people to use tools like VPN to bypass the block placed by Indian government if it ever happens. We shouldn't stay back with this technology and earning opportunity afterall it's bringing more money to the country which will be spent mostly within country this contributing towards tax. If there are too many restrictions then big traders will shift their base like it happened in China.

Won't disagree to your thoughts. Because the goal of Indian government is to curb the usage of cryptocurrencies in India. The Reserve Bank of India is still dead against cryptos. Read this,

https://www.businesstoday.in/industry/banks/story/crypto-trading-is-just-gambling-rbi-governor-shaktikanta-das-seeks-ban-on-cryptocurrencies-360210-2023-01-13

So if you expect a favorable legislation here, that's not going to happen. It's just Indian government is not imposing an outright ban, rather trying to discourage people from using it. It's like slow poisoning.

I got the point but where do the Indian traders go ? Because the amount which they would be deducted as TDS will not even make up the profit which a trader makes from a trade hence traders were dependent on foreign exchanges but now both app store and play store has removed the foreign exchanges and traders have no where to go, so as you mentioned it's slow poisoning wherein they have not banned but brought in such rules that people themselves will stop trading and this would particularly affect small and mid level traders.

There needs to be some discussion between representatives from these exchanges and relevant authorities from RBI/Indian government to sort this out.

TheUltraElite

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Quote from: avikz on January 15, 2024, 12:41:19 PM

-snipz-

That topic is 1year old mate, I agree with the sentiment but we have to acknowledge that it has since been long and there are more movements happening in the government. Still maybe nothing good has come out yet.

While RBI governor words do make a huge impact, I am sure they will move on soon and then new and better things will be coming into view.

For now the shadow ban on exchange apps and website is a bit concerning.

Bureau

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So, recently some prominent cryptocurrency exchanges in India have started a new thing. CoinDCX is allowing it's users either to opt for crypto deposit and withdrawal or fiat deposit and withdrawal. WazirX has taken this to a further extent they are allowing both the services but crypto withdrawal cannot be made to international exchanges and not to a personal wallet. I am sure about CoinDCX but Inam not so sure about WazirX can anyone who is a WazirX user verify this news.

avikz

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Quote from: kentrolla on January 04, 2024, 12:54:51 PM

Quote from: avikz on January 04, 2024, 12:30:39 PM

Quote from: kentrolla on January 04, 2024, 10:14:48 AM

I have often seen that trading volume has been reduced by more than 90% in Indian exchanges after the draconian tax implemented for trading and users have switched to international crypto exchanges but how does Indian exchange still make money or survive? Are they still managing with the profits they earned all these year? Some have shit down operations and some has laid off their employees but will there be any changes to the regulations? Even exchange owners are afraid of speak out against the current regime fearing repercussions but if things don't change them once booming Indian Crypto exchange industry will die a slow death. What are your thoughts on this?

Just an articles posted fortnight ago in this regards -
https://www.firstpost.com/tech/indian-crypto-exchange-wazirxs-trading-volume-falls-by-90-per-cent-as-regulatory-delays-continue-13529432.html

Indian government paved way for the Indian cryptocurrency exchange to survive. One of the recent news is that the IT ministry has decided to block 9 foreign based crypto exchanges in India.

https://www.indiatoday.in/technology/news/story/india-to-ban-urls-of-9-crypto-exchanges-including-binance-for-non-compliance-with-anti-money-laundering-law-2481870-2023-12-29

So it will force the users to shift to Indian exchanges sooner or later. If there's no choice given to the users, what else they can do!

It's not called paving way for Indian exchanges but rather stopping users from trading because no one would like to pay those exorbitant tax amount for every trade when they can barely make profit by paying such hefty charges. These unnecessary restrictions will only lead people to use tools like VPN to bypass the block placed by Indian government if it ever happens. We shouldn't stay back with this technology and earning opportunity afterall it's bringing more money to the country which will be spent mostly within country this contributing towards tax. If there are too many restrictions then big traders will shift their base like it happened in China.

Won't disagree to your thoughts. Because the goal of Indian government is to curb the usage of cryptocurrencies in India. The Reserve Bank of India is still dead against cryptos. Read this,

https://www.businesstoday.in/industry/banks/story/crypto-trading-is-just-gambling-rbi-governor-shaktikanta-das-seeks-ban-on-cryptocurrencies-360210-2023-01-13

So if you expect a favorable legislation here, that's not going to happen. It's just Indian government is not imposing an outright ban, rather trying to discourage people from using it. It's like slow poisoning.

Ravichnadra

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Well, this is a great discussion! I loved learning more about it.

People sharing their opinions makes me believe positively.

Thank you for this wonderful question which helps others.

cafter

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Quote from: TheUltraElite on January 08, 2024, 10:20:22 AM

Quote from: Bureau on January 07, 2024, 05:48:14 AM

-snip-

These guys are pretty much moving on Dubai and other countries to venture into other projects crypto or non-crypto related so as to sustain themselves while they observe what happens to the Indian crypto ecosystem. Indeed it is sad to see the situation like this as the government pays no heed to a new industry and attempt to slam it down.

Possibly they are running with skeleton staffing and with reduced pay, eventually employees will quit and rejoin only if things get better here.

Bull run or bear run are not in our control. This makes their jobs, nothing more than a gamble.

I don't know about insider information but i can say that they are not struggulling that much by seeing their Job posts on linkedin.
When many big companies were laying off their employees in techspace (still are) then they had layed off some percentage of their staff.
but On linkedin we can see they are hiring good amount of employees also for managing their social media platforms.

I think we are mostly talking about wazirx because they are not hiring anyone and their social media is inactive for a very long time, It is well known exchange in india but their volume is too low.
Also being well known exchange their employees are around 200-250 according to linkedin. but other platforms have more than 500-900 employees.
Here are some images of their job posting:

TheUltraElite

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

Quote from: Bureau on January 07, 2024, 05:48:14 AM

-snip-

These guys are pretty much moving on Dubai and other countries to venture into other projects crypto or non-crypto related so as to sustain themselves while they observe what happens to the Indian crypto ecosystem. Indeed it is sad to see the situation like this as the government pays no heed to a new industry and attempt to slam it down.

Possibly they are running with skeleton staffing and with reduced pay, eventually employees will quit and rejoin only if things get better here.

Bull run or bear run are not in our control. This makes their jobs, nothing more than a gamble.

Bureau

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There was an article on the same topic that came last year in May. The article was released by Coindesk, where they spoke to employees and senior executives of 6 prominent Indian exchanges. They said that they can survive from a minimum of 21 months to 4 years and most of them are waiting for the next bull run. In the most likely case we would see the next bull run start after halving and if you want you can read that article for more information. Indian Crypto Exchanges Are in Survival Mode, Trying to Extend Their Runways

TheUltraElite

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

Quote from: kentrolla on January 06, 2024, 07:37:31 AM

Well, there should be a communication bridge between Binance and Indian government and though Binance don't have their office in India but it has employees remotely working from India and in this age of technology we don't need to have a physical office to make our presence felt as there should be a proper communication channel which should help government with the required details instead of putting every trader's earning opportunity at risk. It disgust me to think how they can kill once flourishing market.

Most of the foreign exchanges run remotely, the Indian exchanges have their offices in the mainland. But that idea of communication channel between Binance and Indian government is longshot, crypto is after all a minor problem for the government.

To the government crypto is more of a MLM/HYIP scam and because the number of crime reports on crypto has increased, they are only interested in banning instead of regulating it.

I am hopeful that if the West can come up with some good measures to monitor criminals using crypto and becomes lenient towards use of crypto, we might see some improvement here too.

kentrolla

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Quote from: Bureau on January 06, 2024, 03:44:42 AM

Quote

I wonder that how is binance being blamed for not adhering to AML. Making an account there clearly needs a KYC and the amount is traceable to the individual transacting. If anything, they get to keep the 1% on every transaction. Even on their P2P platform.

Though if this ban comes into affect, P2P will remain the only option. The forum could actually be a rallying point in that case.

KYC is different to AML policy, let's assume, the government wants information about a particular transaction form Binance, how will they contact Binance as they do not have an office. All their employees are scattered around the world. So, Binance need to provide a representative for any information that the government of India needs. They as in Binance is following it in Europe and the US but they are not following the same thing in India.

I don't think that these exchanges would not comply to the government request. They will as Indians are the largest users of the named international exchanges in the world.

Well, there should be a communication bridge between Binance and Indian government and though Binance don't have their office in India but it has employees remotely working from India and in this age of technology we don't need to have a physical office to make our presence felt as there should be a proper communication channel which should help government with the required details instead of putting every trader's earning opportunity at risk. It disgust me to think how they can kill once flourishing market.

Bureau

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Quote

I wonder that how is binance being blamed for not adhering to AML. Making an account there clearly needs a KYC and the amount is traceable to the individual transacting. If anything, they get to keep the 1% on every transaction. Even on their P2P platform.

Though if this ban comes into affect, P2P will remain the only option. The forum could actually be a rallying point in that case.

KYC is different to AML policy, let's assume, the government wants information about a particular transaction form Binance, how will they contact Binance as they do not have an office. All their employees are scattered around the world. So, Binance need to provide a representative for any information that the government of India needs. They as in Binance is following it in Europe and the US but they are not following the same thing in India.

I don't think that these exchanges would not comply to the government request. They will as Indians are the largest users of the named international exchanges in the world.

amishmanish

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Quote from: Bureau on January 05, 2024, 09:44:07 AM

The fact is, Indian crypto exchanges are suffering because of the government laws. The next fact is that these guys were doing whatever they want in their golden period. They manipulated the price, increased the transaction fees, increased the trading fees. Now, they are suffering because none of the Indian community would like to trade or use them. They are nothing but a conversion centre for crypto to INR.

Can't say that this is wrong.

The Indian exchanges used to have such a high markup as well as transaction fee. On top of this, a lot of MLM type scams happened in the name of cryptocurrency. In all such case, the perpetrators must be cashing out using the exchanges like Binance.

I wonder that how is binance being blamed for not adhering to AML. Making an account there clearly needs a KYC and the amount is traceable to the individual transacting. If anything, they get to keep the 1% on every transaction. Even on their P2P platform.

Though if this ban comes into affect, P2P will remain the only option. The forum could actually be a rallying point in that case.

Bureau

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The fact is, Indian crypto exchanges are suffering because of the government laws. The next fact is that these guys were doing whatever they want in their golden period. They manipulated the price, increased the transaction fees, increased the trading fees. Now, they are suffering because none of the Indian community would like to trade or use them. They are nothing but a conversion centre for crypto to INR.

kentrolla

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Quote from: avikz on January 04, 2024, 12:30:39 PM

Quote from: kentrolla on January 04, 2024, 10:14:48 AM

I have often seen that trading volume has been reduced by more than 90% in Indian exchanges after the draconian tax implemented for trading and users have switched to international crypto exchanges but how does Indian exchange still make money or survive? Are they still managing with the profits they earned all these year? Some have shit down operations and some has laid off their employees but will there be any changes to the regulations? Even exchange owners are afraid of speak out against the current regime fearing repercussions but if things don't change them once booming Indian Crypto exchange industry will die a slow death. What are your thoughts on this?

Just an articles posted fortnight ago in this regards -
https://www.firstpost.com/tech/indian-crypto-exchange-wazirxs-trading-volume-falls-by-90-per-cent-as-regulatory-delays-continue-13529432.html

Indian government paved way for the Indian cryptocurrency exchange to survive. One of the recent news is that the IT ministry has decided to block 9 foreign based crypto exchanges in India.

https://www.indiatoday.in/technology/news/story/india-to-ban-urls-of-9-crypto-exchanges-including-binance-for-non-compliance-with-anti-money-laundering-law-2481870-2023-12-29

So it will force the users to shift to Indian exchanges sooner or later. If there's no choice given to the users, what else they can do!

It's not called paving way for Indian exchanges but rather stopping users from trading because no one would like to pay those exorbitant tax amount for every trade when they can barely make profit by paying such hefty charges. These unnecessary restrictions will only lead people to use tools like VPN to bypass the block placed by Indian government if it ever happens. We shouldn't stay back with this technology and earning opportunity afterall it's bringing more money to the country which will be spent mostly within country this contributing towards tax. If there are too many restrictions then big traders will shift their base like it happened in China.

avikz

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Quote from: kentrolla on January 04, 2024, 10:14:48 AM

I have often seen that trading volume has been reduced by more than 90% in Indian exchanges after the draconian tax implemented for trading and users have switched to international crypto exchanges but how does Indian exchange still make money or survive? Are they still managing with the profits they earned all these year? Some have shit down operations and some has laid off their employees but will there be any changes to the regulations? Even exchange owners are afraid of speak out against the current regime fearing repercussions but if things don't change them once booming Indian Crypto exchange industry will die a slow death. What are your thoughts on this?

Just an articles posted fortnight ago in this regards -
https://www.firstpost.com/tech/indian-crypto-exchange-wazirxs-trading-volume-falls-by-90-per-cent-as-regulatory-delays-continue-13529432.html

Indian government paved way for the Indian cryptocurrency exchange to survive. One of the recent news is that the IT ministry has decided to block 9 foreign based crypto exchanges in India.

https://www.indiatoday.in/technology/news/story/india-to-ban-urls-of-9-crypto-exchanges-including-binance-for-non-compliance-with-anti-money-laundering-law-2481870-2023-12-29

So it will force the users to shift to Indian exchanges sooner or later. If there's no choice given to the users, what else they can do!

Bitcoin Smith

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Quote from: kentrolla on January 04, 2024, 10:14:48 AM

I have often seen that trading volume has been reduced by more than 90% in Indian exchanges after the draconian tax implemented for trading and users have switched to international crypto exchanges but how does Indian exchange still make money or survive? Are they still managing with the profits they earned all these year?

Their revenue might be decreased but still they will be making enough to cover the expenses to run the company and in India it is relatively much cheaper to run a company in US so it can compensate to some level as well.

Exchanges also raising their voices against the tax rate but we all know it is not going to bring anything useful if on the bad side it can backfire for them so they try to act neutral as much as they can. And if you noticed the Indian government is in the process of restricting crypto users from accessing international exchanges including Binance and you can see the thread below this to find out.

pawanjain

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Nothing lasts forever

Quote from: electronicash on January 04, 2024, 10:35:54 AM

the 10% i guess is still enough for them to make it.

india is the country in which crypto is being used all the time. the country has the largest crypto holders amounting to 157M people. they must be profiting still despite the drop in volume.
snip
i got the image from a thread in the local forum. didn't know where they got it. but here is another https://www.binance.com/en/feed/post/1441692

Wow, when did India become the number 1 spot with highest number of crypto holders.
I thought it would be in the top 3 spots but didn't know it was at number 1.
The government has laid out tax laws that are not in favor of crypto and hence a lot of users still refrain from investing in crypto.
Just imagine the growth in that number of users when laws that favor crypto users are established in the country.

electronicash

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the 10% i guess is still enough for them to make it.

india is the country in which crypto is being used all the time. the country has the largest crypto holders amounting to 157M people. they must be profiting still despite the drop in volume.

ccto

i got the image from a thread in the local forum. didn't know where they got it. but here is another https://www.binance.com/en/feed/post/1441692

TheUltraElite

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

The industry will never die out, that is the power of decentralization. Because of government's mismanaged policies they industry is suffering but we have to be hopeful that the future turnout will be different.

I dont know how the exchanges are managing but they have stopped appearing on News media of business channels and this means their costings are more than the earnings. From this you can assume that they are barely scraping to be alive and attempting to move other countries or shut down eventually.

Their mouthpiece was attempting to create a lobby with the Indian crypto users, but it will take time for the government to wake from their sleep.

Topic: How does Indian crypto exchange survive? (Read 165 times)