Topic: How far are we from real decentralization? - page 2. (Read 616 times)

far ? no not really  . by using cryptos you are already in a decentralized system because cryptos are known to be anonymous and is unregulated by banks however when you choose to use centralized exchanged or other centralized service that requires a kyc then you are the one that leaving the decentralized scene   .


oh really ? i didnt knew that fact but thanks btw  .


what about cryptos ? cryptos are also a currency same as money  but why cryptos are known to be decentralized  ?

As we all know, decentralized was unregulated business and not own by any official authority in the government. Where everyone is anonymous and We are the only person who can able to protect and save our coins. That's there is no any KYC requirements needed if we want to trade coins in the platform.

DNS is decentralized. The internet is for the most part, decentralized.

Anything involving money is not decentralized, and that will take some time to change. Think about if a big business deal went bad. The goods were delivered, and appeared to be undamaged, but some weeks later it is determined they are contaminated. If the payment was made in a decentralized manner, there is no reversing that. The buyer is screwed. But when things are centralized, the bank / credit card company has power and can reverse the flow of funds (chargeback for example). People don't want to lose that power and safety blanket.

If a system of reputation could be developed, then that's a potential answer.

That's the important things why we here supporting bitcoin and virtual currency to use as finacial freedom nothing to argue decentralized or centralized. The important so far bitcoin igves more opportunities to their users. Time has comes the decentralization will come true in the right time because 10 years is too much younger and expert continue to learn how virtual currency improve well.

What do you mean by real decentralization? Decentralization is just the change of authority in terms of controlling and managing the affairs of a specific something from a central body to individualized based system.  Bitcoin and its blockchain network presents  a system which makes it possible for indiviual users to be in charge of their own funds rather than a centralized body.

Well there is an important reason why Centralization may continue to be successful.

For example, in order to achieve decentralization completely in an Exchange, there must be a support team that provides the best services, in some Centralized Exchanges they not only provide the best support service, they also address the problems in the users and solve them quickly. .

If we achieve that, at Exchanges are decentralized would be on the right track now complete decentralization is somewhat complicated, because although we have our freedom based on Crypto, If we really want to take our profits Trading Bitcoin and Altcoins compulsorily must be passed to USD or the local currency being used, if it is that way, we depend directly from banks, and banks are issuing in FIAT money, if any banks Cryptos or banks that accept Bitcoin exchange for USD or local currency, I would think that we are already moving forward and making great progress worldwide, I think we should start there.

Some Exchanges such as Localbitcoins, allow bitcoin users to trade by selling and buying bitcoins for FIAT money, and by other means that are money exchanges, this is the most decentralized thing I have found, and it is already a good progress, without But they already demand KYC, which means that somehow you have to leave IDs.

I think you could start there ...

I like the idea of it. I've also downloaded and deleted it multiple times. The search is useless, then again Amazon's isn't much good either, I have no idea how good the shipping will be and if the item turns out to be crap, broken or I simply don't want it then it's more of a hassle than Amazon will ever be.

It does have a valid place. It's always going to be a niche, not the norm.

The another point is that people are doing fine without centralization. Companies are using our data and providing a better service because we share it, governments are taking all the advantage of controling and tracking all our activities and transactions. And all those things work such a user-friendly way when you don't even notice that someone is using your private data. And that's because even most users don't really care about it.

I'm running a full node (not 24/7). I also got the Electrum Personal Server, which actually doesn't need a full node, just a pruned node, but i plan to experiment with other things that need a full node running anyway. Lately with all the Electrum DoS attacks by the angry Electrum server phisher operators getting kicked out, i got into the habit of connecting it to my own server, and now Electrum behaves a lot like Core. Sure i could also use core, but its fun to do it this way. And i know with a proper electrum server i could even let others connect (if the internet here wasn't such a piece of garbage).

But other than to satisfy my own curiosity, there is little incentive to run one. It does take significant bandwidth and storage if you run it in full, but you don't earn a single Satoshi from it. The theory is, people actually earning money with Bitcoin, should be compelled to run their nodes, but many large miners don't even bother, they just point their asics to some giant Chinese pool that manages the money for themselves so they can pay bills they couldn't if they managed their own money, because temptation to not spent is hard to overcome and they rather pay more someone else to retain the money from them and dispense it in small but continual doses for extra fees.

And then there is the business that accept Bitcoin, who also out of, i don't know, charity? would run their own nodes in their shop. Hmm i don't think that is happening much either, tho they would be better running Core, i think most will just go with an SPV wallet.

Of course if I was in charge, i would know better, but people are people...

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Decentralized Amazon? Here: https://openbazaar.org/

Would i want it? Yes, especially after Amazon decided to send a security code to an email account i can't receive messages from anymore but the idiots won't let me change it without logging in first, and that requires the code they sent to that email account... Besides Amazon practices are becoming worse every day.

Agreed. Imagine living in a world without central authority. People seem to think only about the positive prospects, but negate the negative prospects. Crime would flourish in such a world and humanity would basically rip itself apart.

A centralized world is key for the survival of the human race though decentralization does help in some aspects(Crypto etc).

A full node contributes to BTC's decentralisation. The more there are the harder it is to corrupt. If your transaction is through someone else's then you're benefiting from their infrastructure. And miners do indeed need them.

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with that. For most people it's just not practical to run one. Decentralisation in the forms we see now is a grind which is why for most people it's always going to be someone else's job, not theirs.

Do I want decentralised Amazon? Hell no. I want to press a button and get it and doing it through one company is a lot less hassle. If it's late I want to them to pay me or chase it up.

This is why we'll never see a decentralised world and most people don't need or want one.

The people who NEED it will make it happen and maintain it while the rest of the world ignores it and stays centralised for the sake of an easy life.

hmm, do you think it is right to say it is not decentralized? SPV is just a practical way to connect and contribute  to blockchain (add entries to it, by submitting them to full-nodes), so it is basically the same as having full-node, except, that you pass the information to full-node and they do the job.

In the future, there might be solutions to this, but I do not see a reason to have full node now.

Miners have full-nodes, do they not?

Nothing. But they're not decentralised in the fullest sense.

Someone else is running a node that you're tapping into. They're paying for it and maintaining it. A SPV user is leaching off them. If you really want to do it right then only your own node is good enough.

It's not practical to have a full node on a phone of course, but most people will never have a full node anywhere. Me included.

what's wrong with SPV wallets?

And they'll be using Coinbase and SPV wallets while people in a far off land are doing the actual mining of their transaction. So once again someone else will be maintaining the actual decentralisation on their behalf.

Nothing wrong with that. Most people are lazy. The world has evolved to serve that laziness. 

No, indeed I have not, gotta check it out

no, please do not shatter my hopes.  I want to see the world decentralized, but I cannot disagree with you saying that people 'want their hand held', some of them cannot take full responsibility for themselves and need to be looked after, but I think there is a great deal of people who want to see crypto being used everywhere including buying a bread on walmart

Nowhere near it. We probably never will be.

And in many cases I actively don't want decentralisation. It's more burdensome and there's more scope for things to go tits up with little to no way of rectifying it. I want someone to moan to who'll sort it out.

As Bitcoin shows us, for something to be decentralised there needs to be an incentive for the collective maintain it. Most people can't be bothered. They want their hand held.

Total decentralization can only be achieved without touching fiat. The moment you touch fiat, you are already tied to a third party.

It is theoretically possible to exchange Bitcoin with Litecoin and back, without touching an exchange, from wallet to wallet, as both have Segwit. But if you try with a government issued coin, now you are also bringing this government scrutiny in.

I know there is a method of "trading" without actually exchanging the physical papers, at least involving stocks. The so called CFDs, but this is a heavily regulated area, in most countries anyway. Its funny how the likes of eToro even do it with crypto, trading crypto without actually trading crypto...

Critical mass adoption requires people being paid in crypto so they can also pay with crypto. Then you could start observing these phenomena. I think this might come at some point, don't know when. It probably depends on the newer generations being born post Satoshi and growing with that concept already in use.

How do you talk to an older generation about memes or AI driving? Yeah some will get it, but many won't. Those are politicians and lawmakers who grew up their lives without crypto, and just don't know what to do with it.

The stock market isn't decentralized because a lot of Wall Street parasites will lose their easy money.
We are really far from decentralization and we aren't moving further.Crypto mining is more and more concentrated,crypto trading is dominated by a few big exchange platforms that are against decentralization,because they will lose all the revenue from trading fees.