How free crypto wallet devs make money ?

Cricktor

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Atomic Wallet have their own Token and possibly some economy around it (don't know details as I don't care about Atomic Wallet). Giving their users some incentive to use those own tokens might fuel some sort of economy and value. Of course, there's likely some substantial pre-mine of such tokens in the hands of the devs. Roll Eyes

If it's a multi-coin wallet then taking a cut on swap or exchange fees is somewhat to be expected. Devs could also earn money to integrate certain exchanges or services into their wallet, possibly with some plans they negotiate with those exchanges/services. (I think this has been said in this thread already.)

dansus021

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I also curious about this kind of question Grin

I mean some wallet need a good server to host their wallet and high security too. Just an opinion maybe the hack is from their internal team but who knows.

Maybe some wallet fueled by advertisement and wallet like Truswallet have their own native token maybe they can sell from it or some wallet joined to become a PoS validator in their stake program so basically they get paid from their stake of some altcoin.

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Quote from: NotATether on June 22, 2023, 04:34:37 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on June 17, 2023, 04:31:21 PM

This is normal for most free crypto wallet devs and they cut in every successful trade done by their use on the DEX. Besides, another project that offers almost this exact service is BestChange. Have not to wonder how they are making their money while they are not an exchange.

I think BestChange has a revenue-sharing system in place where the actually exchange you go to has BestChange's referral code or something like that.

That's exactly what I am talking about but the situation of some free crypto wallet dev (like Metamask, etc.) they partner with 1inch, airswap, Uniswap, Curve, Paraswap, etc to make more money through their free wallet service apart from the service fee of 0.875%, which serve as helps fund to continued improvements to MetaMask.

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Quote from: dkbit98 on June 22, 2023, 03:37:59 PM

Quote from: Becassine on June 22, 2023, 02:06:31 PM

Quote from: NotATether on June 22, 2023, 04:34:37 AM

Quote from: dkbit98 on June 19, 2023, 05:35:26 AM

I think they are going to shut down their business very soon, and last thing I heard they are in Kazakhstan court.

Where did you get that information from?

Interesting, I too would like to know more about this shut down please

Quote from: NotATether on June 22, 2023, 04:34:37 AM

Where did you get that information from?

It's common sense as a result of many lawsuits, and information about Kazakhstan court I found on internet like everyone else, so I can't confirm anything with certainty and I don't know exact source of info Wink

I don't understand who in the right mind will make any business deal with this wallet company, or who is going to use them after this debacle.

The lawsuit I read that was filed against Atomic wallet is in the US district court for District of Colorado. [1] The thing I read about Atomic Wallet hack is that they are cooperating with Estonian police. That they just got a request from the Kazakhstan police and the request was forwarded to Estonian Police.[2] The article stating that information was published last June 14. I do not read any news of the Kazakhstan investigation escalates into suing the Atomic Wallet in Kazakhstan court.

[1] https://news.bloomberglaw.com/ip-law/atomic-wallet-users-sue-over-100-million-in-crypto-lost-to-hack
[2] https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/06/13/police-in-estonia-and-kazakhstan-investigate-atomic-wallet-hack/

dkbit98

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Quote from: Becassine on June 22, 2023, 02:06:31 PM

Quote from: NotATether on June 22, 2023, 04:34:37 AM

Quote from: dkbit98 on June 19, 2023, 05:35:26 AM

I think they are going to shut down their business very soon, and last thing I heard they are in Kazakhstan court.

Where did you get that information from?

Interesting, I too would like to know more about this shut down please

Quote from: NotATether on June 22, 2023, 04:34:37 AM

Where did you get that information from?

It's common sense as a result of many lawsuits, and information about Kazakhstan court I found on internet like everyone else, so I can't confirm anything with certainty and I don't know exact source of info Wink

I don't understand who in the right mind will make any business deal with this wallet company, or who is going to use them after this debacle.

Becassine

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Quote from: NotATether on June 22, 2023, 04:34:37 AM

Quote from: dkbit98 on June 19, 2023, 05:35:26 AM

I think they are going to shut down their business very soon, and last thing I heard they are in Kazakhstan court.

Where did you get that information from?

Interesting, I too would like to know more about this shut down please

NotATether

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Open-source wallets survive on donations and grants mostly. The rest sell out ads and PII (personal identifying information) to data brokers.

Quote from: suzanne5223 on June 17, 2023, 04:31:21 PM

This is normal for most free crypto wallet devs and they cut in every successful trade done by their use on the DEX. Besides, another project that offers almost this exact service is BestChange. Have not to wonder how they are making their money while they are not an exchange.

I think BestChange has a revenue-sharing system in place where the actually exchange you go to has BestChange's referral code or something like that.

Quote from: Peanutswar on June 19, 2023, 11:00:44 AM

Otherwise, the devs can earn transaction fees besides the prices in blockchain, they can do the same way like exchange add a transaction costs more than the regular fees

Developers cannot do that to any coin they'd like because they'd have to modify every transaction coming out of that wallet to send a comission to them. That is a HUGE gaping security hole. It's basically restricted to their own tokens via economy/blockchain measures.

Quote from: dkbit98 on June 19, 2023, 05:35:26 AM

I think they are going to shut down their business verysoon, and last thing I heard they are in Kazakhstan court.

Where did you get that information from?

libert19

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From integrations (coin/token/exchange/on-ramp, etc.). Although in the start, you would have to do some free servicing until your product gets popular enough and people start reaching you out.

drwhobox

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Free developers put ads on their site or make partnership with other exchanges and shows that ad on the wallet. Their are several ways of making money. Also, you can help them by giving them a tip on their account or wallet. Many developers include their wallet on their site to support them.

Peanutswar

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It could be a different way they can sell their services for being a third-party developer so they can get a commission. Otherwise, the devs can earn transaction fees besides the prices in blockchain, they can do the same way like exchange add a transaction costs more than the regular fees. Of course it's being a develop platform; they can include the number of ads if they want or make the additional level of marketing by turning off the ads through subscription.

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Quote from: Awaklara on June 16, 2023, 08:54:22 PM

Quote from: Becassine on June 16, 2023, 04:36:52 PM

Thank you for your answers, even though we don't really know. Because in the case of crypto wallets, the devs have quite a responsibility in terms of security. It's not really the same level of responsibility as a bug on candy crush ... So what's going to happen with Atomic? Who's going to reimburse users ?

of course, the Atomic wallet developer has the full responsibility of returning losses from users. because the mistake was not made by the user but by the wallet security system. if it's a user error, maybe only a few users will receive a loss. but this is in large numbers and the developer Atomic should be held accountable.
a wallet like Atomic is not the best recommendation for storing assets. let alone in the thousands to millions of dollars. it's too risky.

The developers of Atomic wallet will have full responsibility to provide users stolen funds because they failed to tighten their security network and made their wallet vulnerable to attack. I don't think that they will be able to payback all customers fund
even when the funds are traced and retrieved. Or will anyone be held responsible for customers stolen funds apart from the Dev. Maybe be hackers should be held responsible Cheesy

dkbit98

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Quote from: Becassine on June 16, 2023, 08:47:26 AM

With this Atomic wallet hack, I have a lot of questions. For example, how do free wallet developers make money? It's probably a naive question, but in the end, safety also depends on the reliability of the team, and they're not going to work for free.

They are mostly making money from donations or from partnership and investment deals.
Some wallets made partnership with instant centralized exchanges and they are taking percentage of the profit, others are providing coinjoin services for profit, etc.
I think that Electrum and similar wallets (Sparrow, Specter, Lily, etc.) are fully working on donations, and they started as open source community projects.
Closed source wallets should be avoided because they are always hiding something.

Quote from: Becassine on June 16, 2023, 04:36:52 PM

So what's going to happen with Atomic? Who's going to reimburse users ?

I think they are going to shut down their business verysoon, and last thing I heard they are in Kazakhstan court.

suzanne5223

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 16, 2023, 09:01:12 AM

From instant exchanges, decentralized exchanges and other means they included third parties that their wallet users can make use of, for the third parties to make money from the wallet users.

This is normal for most free crypto wallet devs and they cut in every successful trade done by their use on the DEX. Besides, another project that offers almost this exact service is BestChange. Have not to wonder how they are making their money while they are not an exchange.

Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 16, 2023, 09:01:12 AM

Also some coin developers can pay them to support their coin.

That's correct and always some sort of partnership between the coin developers and the free wallet or DEX exchange.

Adams0001

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Fees are commonly used in the business strategies of concentrate ones. They charge a set fee for undertaking (some even demand a wage for deposits), then finish transactions for all of their customers in batches, saving on the actual cost of mining fees and keeping the difference.

FinneysTrueVision

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Most wallets have a bunch of unnecessary crap included in them. Almost every altcoin wallet has a Changelly integration or some other sort of instant exchange service. Some wallets are owned by popular exchanges like Coinbase or Binance. They don't necessarily need to make money from their wallet because they already have other sources of revenue, although they usually still include all this other stuff where they collect affiliate commissions and trading fees.

Wasabi, Samourai, and Sparrow wallets all have a built in coinjoin mixer where they earn fees. These are a few of the wallets that actually provide a useful service.

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Quote from: Onset on June 16, 2023, 11:16:24 PM

The actually free crypto wallets have teams that rely on their main job and donations. Believe it or not, people who do this for everyone else and not for personal gains still exist. They’re rarities, but they exist.

As you may expect, donations usually aren’t considerable and they’re more like tipping.

Donation mean they don't consider it as their main income. They work like a habit to serve what they like to do and donations can be small or big, sometimes donation is big but they don't expect big donation to keep their projects running.

Quote

That’s why they have to rely on other sources of income. I’d guess there are also a few devs who have enough money and passive income to not give a shit about being paid to do fun development stuff.

Donations are popular with open source projects like you can get list of Bitcoin Core developers and their donation addresses.
Bitcoin Donation Portal

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Support bitcoin developers so they can focus on building our future

Onset

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Quote from: ImThour on June 16, 2023, 09:32:59 AM

So how does Instagram make money? From it's userbase. Similar strategy is used in any *free* product. You are the money for them, the more the userbase, the more information they have and the better sponsors they can get for their product, simple as that. In case of Crypto Wallets, it's maybe that they can advertise a big Crypto coin without looking sus? IDK.

The actually free crypto wallets have teams that rely on their main job and donations. Believe it or not, people who do this for everyone else and not for personal gains still exist. They’re rarities, but they exist.

As you may expect, donations usually aren’t considerable and they’re more like tipping. That’s why they have to rely on other sources of income. I’d guess there are also a few devs who have enough money and passive income to not give a shit about being paid to do fun development stuff.

Awaklara

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Quote from: Becassine on June 16, 2023, 04:36:52 PM

Thank you for your answers, even though we don't really know. Because in the case of crypto wallets, the devs have quite a responsibility in terms of security. It's not really the same level of responsibility as a bug on candy crush ... So what's going to happen with Atomic? Who's going to reimburse users ?

of course, the Atomic wallet developer has the full responsibility of returning losses from users. because the mistake was not made by the user but by the wallet security system. if it's a user error, maybe only a few users will receive a loss. but this is in large numbers and the developer Atomic should be held accountable.
a wallet like Atomic is not the best recommendation for storing assets. let alone in the thousands to millions of dollars. it's too risky.

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Aside from advertising and potential integration and partnership, I think that they're also earning a bit of percentage from the fixed or customized fee that users pay them.

Quote from: Becassine on June 16, 2023, 04:36:52 PM

Thank you for your answers, even though we don't really know. Because in the case of crypto wallets, the devs have quite a responsibility in terms of security. It's not really the same level of responsibility as a bug on candy crush ...

You're right, this wallet has got millions of users and I think with all of those years that they've operated they've managed to earn a lot of profits from every source that they can.

Quote from: Becassine on June 16, 2023, 04:36:52 PM

So what's going to happen with Atomic? Who's going to reimburse users ?

It could be some reserve funds of theirs but whether they've got a lot or none if they're not willing to refund it, they won't. But there goes the TOS that they've got.

Quote from: https://atomicwallet.io/terms-of-service

8. Cap on Liability.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL ATOMIC WALLET BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF THE SERVICES EXCEEDING $50.

9. Indemnity
You agree to indemnify Atomic against any claims, damages, losses or legal fees incurred due to Your use (or misuse) of Atomic.

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Quote from: Becassine on June 16, 2023, 04:36:52 PM

Thank you for your answers, even though we don't really know. Because in the case of crypto wallets, the devs have quite a responsibility in terms of security. It's not really the same level of responsibility as a bug on candy crush ... So what's going to happen with Atomic? Who's going to reimburse users ?

More precisely Atomic Wallet was exploited taking advantage of vulnerabilities in Atomic Wallet's security infrastructure, gaining unauthorized access to user accounts and stealing their digital assets. Many users suffered losses with this hack and even the largest user losses amounted to $ 7.95 Million in Tether. this is a huge amount and the total stolen by hackers is $35 Million.
the Atomic Wallet Developer is fully responsible for the loss of user assets and must immediately replace them when the stolen funds have been found and where they are going.

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